October Exceptional Story: Our Lady of Pyres

[kukapetal]

[quote=MidnightVoyager]

Oh, I read it, I just didn’t find anything of value in the comparison of a story in a game online to a story about a massive historical human tragedy. Especially when the comparison continues and we’re like one step from calling people in the FL story Nazis.[/quote]

I’m sorry. It wasn’t my intention to imply that the characters or players in the story were Nazis. I was just working with the comparison used, trying to explain why it wasn’t an accurate comparison to what was happening in the game. Let me try again. Consider the following two scenarios:

Scenario 1:

A madman is holding you captive. Across from you are two other captives, Jack and Jill. The madman tells you he is going to shoot one and you must pick who. If you don’t pick one, he will shot both.

Do you a.) tell him to shoot Jack. b.) Tell him to shoot Jill c.) Refuse to choose and let him shoot both

Scenario 2:

You are walking down the street when you come across Jack and Jill.

Do you a.) pull out your gun and shoot Jack b.) pull out your gun and shoot Jill c.) pull out your gun and shoot both

Dubinee seemed to be implying the situation in the story was more like Scenario 1, and I was complaining the game didn’t give me an option to break out of my shackles, bludgeon the madman to death with his own gun, and go have a threesome with Jack and Jill. While I believe the situation in the game was more like Scenario 2, and I’m complaining that the choices I’m given are all immoral in the context of the situation. Because in Scenario 2, there is nothing about the setup that’s forcing me to shoot anybody. I could just as easily greet the two politely and invite them to tea, or walk away, or call them a-holes and give them the middle finger, or a zillion other things. By only giving me options to shoot one or both of them, the game makes assumptions about what kind of character I’m playing. This is unfair to those of us who aren’t playing as characters who would go up and shoot random people on the street.

Similarly, the game gives us situation where there is nothing, in-universe, holding you on the island or forcing you to take part in a cult war. Getting involved in the cult war wasn’t your initial goal, neither cult is forcing you to get involved, you’ve got a ship that can get you out of there, etc. Technically, your work is done once you offer the bequeathment to the Iconoclast and she tells you she doesn’t want it. You could sail straight home and tell the Bluejacket you tried but she said no and is there anyone else he’d like to give it to instead? Or you could choose to stay and take a genuinely peaceful stance and try to talk them out of it. Or you could choose to stay and take a neutral stance and just watch what happens. Or any number of options that should have theoretically been possible in the situation. Getting involved in the conflict is therefore something that the character must have chosen to do, in universe. Therefore, responsibility for the deaths caused by either picking a side and joining in the fight or pitting both of them against eachother and watching the fun DO fall upon your character’s head, if not exclusively.

Just as the options presented in Scenario 2 are unfair to those of us who aren’t playing as someone who would shoot random people on the street when they didn’t have to, the options presented in the game are unfair to those of us who aren’t playing as characters who would choose to join in and exacerbate a conflict when they didn’t have to.
edited by Kukapetal on 10/3/2016

[myrto]

Well, I was all prepared to have Myrto take the selfish option at the end. But the writers included the phrase “pen in his quavering hands,” and all my intentions went to hell. So, I just wanted to do whatever the Bluejacket wanted.

Bah! Preying on my sentimentality like that.

[cthonius]

@Anne Auclair

[quote=ginnyjenny]As a (relatively) new player, I feel like I’m missing out on a lot of the lore that’s been going in to these past few ES. I’ve yet to encounter the Dawn Machine, or understand how these characters connect to the greater story of Fallen London. I’ve been reading through, trying to get a sense of what all this is about and how my character would respond, particularly with the little I was able to glean about the Dawn Machine…I’m a little worried I’m going to make a choice and later realize I should have made a different one, once I have all the facts.

The Conflagrati are introduced in this story, so everything you need to know is already in this story (they’re not very complicated, really). If you want to learn more about the Dawn Machine, perhaps you should play The Gift and then The Last Dog Society. You’ll have to pay fate though.
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016[/quote]

The Gift had the Dawn Machine in it?

I will admit all the criticism levied against the story is making me appreciate it more (mostly due to disagreeing with some criticisms; it’s giving me fond memories of Dragon Age 2 and how the conflict builds to a point where in Act 3 the neutral choice overall brings no good. Mind you nothing ends well in Act 3), but that aside it still feels like I’m missing something. Like I know about the Dawn Machine, and apparently there’s little more to know about the animenesce (let’s pretend I can spell that off the top of my head and not that I’m guessing), its another story where I feel like I’m missing info to fully appreciate it. Which can be frustrating when I know I have all the info.

[suinicide]

The gift didn’t have the dawn machine. They might be messing it up with the wry functionary conversational bit.

[harkdegaul]

I will admit, having thought on this one that I do think the story has problems, but not moral ones.
By the time the debate happens you have (ironically) already chosen your side and are incapable of setting it right. If (for example) you support the Iconoclast for the first two events, but then decide based on new information that you would rather support the Visionary’s cause, or vice versa, then it doesn’t matter. From a mechanics standpoint it feels like you’re trapped by your choices from an unusually early stage.

Some of the best stories (exceptional or otherwise) are ones where people have changed their mind about who they supported halfway through and gone in a different direction and here you just can’t do that. Maybe that’s the point, but it’s really not my style. This is the only ES I’ve ever considered resetting and I’ll be doing it for my alt as soon as I’m able.
edited by Hark DeGaul on 10/3/2016

[kukapetal]

I think I’ll reset it too. Now that I know I can’t make a moral choice, I’m just going to make a fun choice instead and side with the Visionary because he’s cute.

I want that hug :P

[anneauclair]

@Cthonius

The Gift had the Dawn Machine in it?

The good ending to The Gift tells you a little about the New Sequence and it gives you a reoccurring card that mentions it. Helps you put what’s going on into context.
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/3/2016

[lamialawless]

[quote=Hark DeGaul]I will admit, having thought on this one that I do think the story has problems, but not moral ones.
By the time the debate happens you have (ironically) already chosen your side and are incapable of setting it right. If (for example) you support the Iconoclast for the first two events, but then decide based on new information that you would rather support the Visionary’s cause, or vice versa, then it doesn’t matter. From a mechanics standpoint it feels like you’re trapped by your choices from an unusually early stage.

Some of the best stories (exceptional or otherwise) are ones where people have changed their mind about who they supported halfway through and gone in a different direction and here you just can’t do that. Maybe that’s the point, but it’s really not my style. This is the only ES I’ve ever considered resetting and I’ll be doing it for my alt as soon as I’m able.
[/quote]

Yeah, that is exactly the problem I had. Talking to the Abiding Wife never revealed more information. You just get &quotOh, I have a plan, although it would be fiendish of me…&quot with no elaboration or details, and the only way to learn more is to plow straight ahead. I thought playing both sides was the &quotneutral&quot option and it turned out it wasn’t at all.

I didn’t realize how much of this story depended on players having familiarity with things from either Sunless Sea, or other Exceptional Stories, until I saw all the confused posts by new players. Going in, I already knew how I felt about the New Sequence and animescence, and I still had a hard time figuring out what to do.

By the way, did anyone side with the Iconoclast and echo it? I really want to see what happened.

[anneauclair]

@Lamia Lawless

By the way, did anyone side with the Iconoclast and echo it? I really want to see what happened.

Ask and you will receive.

[lamialawless]

Thanks!

[optimatum]

@Anne Auclair

[quote=Optimatum]The wreck was mentioned as being near Mutton Island though, right? That’s not very far out to zee, and in FL it’s entirely possible for the player to get wounded to the brink of death at Mutton Island and recover just fine.[/quote]There are shipwrecks on the island itself and a continuous stream of wreckage washed ashore, likely from the wrecks that regularly occur off Mutton Island (good lord, how many zailors does that island kill?!). However, you don’t see the lights of Mutton Island, so its not right offshore.

The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn’t strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles.

[anneauclair]

@Optimatum

[quote=Anne Auclair][quote=Optimatum]The wreck was mentioned as being near Mutton Island though, right? That’s not very far out to zee, and in FL it’s entirely possible for the player to get wounded to the brink of death at Mutton Island and recover just fine.[/quote]There are shipwrecks on the island itself and a continuous stream of wreckage washed ashore, likely from the wrecks that regularly occur off Mutton Island (good lord, how many zailors does that island kill?!). However, you don’t see the lights of Mutton Island, so its not right offshore.

The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn’t strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles.[/quote]
The Shepherd Isles move around quite a bit and can be very far out to zee. Also, the Bluejacket makes no mention of them.

[optimatum]

@Anne Auclair

[quote=Optimatum]The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn’t strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles.

The Shepherd Isles move around quite a bit and can be very far out to zee. Also, the Bluejacket makes no mention of them.[/quote]
My point being that we don’t really have any landmarks or specific location knowledge, the Shepherd Isles being an example.

[anneauclair]

@Optimatum

[quote=Anne Auclair][quote=Optimatum]The shipwrecks of course occur because the villagers of Mutton Island purposefully block all light from the windows facing out to zee, so that doesn’t strike me as a good indicator. For all we know the Pyres could be fifty feet away, or it could be out somewhere more around the Shepherd Isles.

The Shepherd Isles move around quite a bit and can be very far out to zee. Also, the Bluejacket makes no mention of them.[/quote]
My point being that we don’t really have any landmarks or specific location knowledge, the Shepherd Isles being an example.[/quote]

We have testimony that Pyres is close to Mutton Island. This testimony is borne out from the wreckage of shipwrecks regularly washing up on its beaches.

It slipped my mind that the Mutton Islanders blocking their lamps to cause the wrecks would stop us from seeing Mutton Island (omigawd, what is wrong with me?). But we don’t see Mutton Island with our ship’s lights and it plays no role in the story, which probably indicates its a little ways off.
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/5/2016

[dov]

I’ve now played (most of) this story, after reading this forum thread (I don’t mind most spoilers).

I have to say that I mostly agree with Kukapetal. While I don’t personally feel 100% responsible for the eventual carnage, I think that the story’s choices were not well designed and communicated.

Even knowing full well in advance (from this thread) where the story goes, I could find no indication in the story’s text which would lead me to believe that the &quotmiddle&quot option is not benign (until it’s too late to do anything about it). And there’s no reason why the game wouldn’t offer an option to wash our hands clean of the whole mess and just leave.

[spoiler]Personally, I’ve played the &quotmiddle&quot option twice, and aided the Conflagrati once, and ended up with no choice at the end except aiding the Wife and watch both sides go down. Given the options, I would have liked to aid the Conflagrati, but apparently this is only an option had I supported them at least two days out of the three. There’s no in game indication of this!)

And another weird thing: After the big showdown, we meet the Visionary, apparently &quothis faith broken&quot. Huh? Why? Because his followers died? This is never mentioned or explained. That’s quite a change for a religious zealot leader. The game also tells you that &quotsomething must be done with him&quot. Why?? It’s not like he was ever our enemy, or it was our mission to deal with him and his cult.[/spoiler]

That said, this story includes one of my new favourable Fallen London quotes: &quotShe rewards you with a smile like a cat who has not only gotten the cream but also the home address of the milkman.&quot Love it.

Overall, I liked the lore (Animescence, Conflagrati, New Sequence, …), and some of the characters. The story mostly made sense and some of the options were fun. The mechanics were mostly OK, though a bit tedious towards the end. But the way the options led to limiting our eventual choices and consequences ended the story on a sour note for me.

Here’s my revised list of Exceptional Story ranking:

Excellent:
Lost in Reflections
Cut with Moonlight
The Frequently Deceased
The Waltz that Moved the World
Flint
Where You and I Must Go

Good:
The Pentecost Predicament
The Calendar Code
The Art of Murder
The Chimney Pot Wars
Our Lady of Pyres
Five Minutes to Midday
Discernment
The Haunting at the Marsh House

Meh:
The Last Dog Society
The Seven-Day Reign
The Court of Cats

---

edited by dov on 10/8/2016

[Diptych]

I wasn’t entiiirely happy with not having any option to prevent bloodshed… but I can accept it as part of the story. Here’s two groups of fanatics, absolutely determined to kill each other off - that’s going to happen with or without you. I do think the middle path does minimise the damage - weakening their resolve, scaring off all but the most fervent believers, giving more people a chance to get out before things get really serious.

That element aside, the Conflagrati were an amazing group - thoroughly believable as a Victorian art-cult.

[_andy_m]

Has anyone echoed the results of giving the Iconoclast the bequeathment after you have brought her back to London?

[midnightvoyager]

@dov

And there’s no reason why the game wouldn’t offer an option to wash our hands clean of the whole mess and just leave.

Actually, there is an excellent reason for this. It’s not really great game design.

It’s not like A Bard’s Tale which was a parody and put the &quotwalk away&quot moment right at the end of the game so the most you miss is a single boss fight replaced with a laugh. It’s more like Far Cry 4 where you can end the game just by waiting instead of leaving when the villain has to leave for a minute. Yes, it’s perfectly valid as an option, but now you’ve ended the game before you played any of it. Which is fine… when you can reload a save and go about the game properly.

I know we love our moral high grounds here, but I cannot imagine for a moment people picking that option and NOT coming into the forum, angry that it just skipped the whole story, even if they did consider that the moral high ground. They would have just paid to play a story that they then skipped.

Besides, people don’t tend to play a game so that plots can resolve themselves. They play and expect to resolve plots.

@_Andy_M_

Has anyone echoed the results of giving the Iconoclast the bequeathment after you have brought her back to London?

I did!

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/MidnightVoyager?fromEchoId=9739121
edited by MidnightVoyager on 10/11/2016

[_andy_m]

Thank you!

I’m rather fond of Agatha, but I may end up choosing this one - I kinda wish it was possible to split the bequeathment between Mildred and Agatha

[dov]

@MidnightVoyager

[quote=dov]And there’s no reason why the game wouldn’t offer an option to wash our hands clean of the whole mess and just leave.

Actually, there is an excellent reason for this. It’s not really great game design.

[…]

Yes, it’s perfectly valid as an option, but now you’ve ended the game before you played any of it. [/quote]
But that’s just one way to go about it, and I agree that it wouldn’t be a good design.

I was not advocating an option to skip the whole story from the beginning. There’s no reason not to go and experience the factions on the Pyres, get involved in their activities, etc. But at the very end, when it becomes clear that the factions plan to move against each other, the game gives you 3 specific choices: support one faction, support the other, or undermine them both. At that point in the story, it would have been nice to have an option which said: &quotYou know what? I’m not getting involved. This little feud is not why I came here.&quot. Then you can wait it out on your ship, hearing the clash of the factions, and the end can be the same.

This is, of course, only one way to do it. Notice that I don’t even mention a &quothappy ending&quot. Just an option which acknowledges that the conflict between the factions is not the reason our character is there, and that we’re not trapped there and can leave at any time.