October Exceptional Story: Our Lady of Pyres

Fallen London
61

There are parts of this ES that I really appreciated and others I did not enjoy so much.

First and foremost, I was very grateful for the story mechanic at the wreck. Never did I feel like I was meaninglessly grinding on the island. Offering different story choices, even for actions that produced the same quality or repeated a cycle, was incredibly rewarding in terms of game play and I hope for a similar setup in future Exceptional Stories.
Additionally, I was delighted by the content chosen for this ES. The Dawn Machine and the animescence? Ever since Sunless Sea, I’ve been enamored by both topics and found it a refreshing break from the usual cannibalism plots.

[spoiler]In regards to what I enjoyed less, I found myself very detached from the Brazen Iconoclast and Sear-Eyed Visionary. Perhaps it was because I didn’t care for all of the posturing and pontificating, or maybe the actions really were a little vague, but I felt indifferent to the events at the island and the people therein, as if I were viewing it through a lens rather than directly participating. I wish I could actually witness the Iconoclast’s poet recite passionate verse rather than listen to the Iconoclast’s claims that it is so, or witness the actual rhetoric of the Sear-Eyed Visionary instead of being told that my character did. It wasn’t until I was given the option to do a little play for the Conflagrati that I cared about what I was doing, outside of merely progressing the machinations between the Abiding Wife and myself.

Otherwise I really liked the people I met on the island. The Brazen Iconoclast seemed like a fun and terrible woman of reckoning, even after I towed her back to London, and the Sear-Eyed Visionary seemed like a sympathetic character from what little I was able to discern of his person. Also, I wish I could have witnessed just a bit more humanity from the background followers, even if I was never fated to encounter them again.[/spoiler]

62

I find myself really liking this story. (and not just because of my new Element of Dawn.) The Visionary and Iconoclast both were interesting characters and I was pleasantly surprised by the complex motivations of the Visionary by the end of it. If it could ever be a possibility, I would love to see more of the man (and the woman). While I didn’t have quite the same experience with the Iconoclast (I supported the Dawn Machine, obviously), she also seemed like quite an interesting character to me. The cults themselves weren’t quite as intriguing for me, but I still loved the leaders, and I hope we’ll get to see more of them at some point in the future.

One of my pet peeves is the fact that there isn’t any explanation or description for the end reward. You just tell the Bluejacket what do to and bam you have an Element of Dawn. How does it look? How did it get here? We will never know because someone didn’t bother adding a description by the end of the story.

63

I am still having trouble not reading animescence as Anime Science.

I liked the story in general, although the mechanics are a little confusing if you want to sabotage both sides - at first you’d think that progressing to the evening ritual meant picking a side due to its requirement of 15 Ascendancy, but turns out these two are just identical storylets.

Giving us the option to play bridge with the Ailing Wife or at least some interaction with her on the ship, even once, could cut down on the monotony of zailing. I’d love to lose to her or something as opposed to just repeating another zee-trip (which presumably next month’s story will have, too).

64

[quote=Estelle Knoht]I am still having trouble not reading animescence as Anime Science.

I liked the story in general, although the mechanics are a little confusing if you want to sabotage both sides - at first you’d think that progressing to the evening ritual meant picking a side due to its requirement of 15 Ascendancy, but turns out these two are just identical storylets.

Giving us the option to play bridge with the Ailing Wife or at least some interaction with her on the ship, even once, could cut down on the monotony of zailing. I’d love to lose to her or something as opposed to just repeating another zee-trip (which presumably next month’s story will have, too).[/quote]

If you come to visit the Bluejacket, you’ll find out that the 3rd ES of this season will, most likely, not contain a zee-trip:

[spoiler]
Seek the wreck of the Bellot

&quotIf you head down the embankment from here, you’ll see it stuck on a sandbank. My old first mate lives there. We have unsettled business, he and I…&quot[/spoiler]
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 10/1/2016

65

So…

[spoiler] Was there any way to prevent the massacre between the two cults? I chose the &quotmiddle of the road options&quot rather than siding with the woman I had come to find or the cute Visionary who stole my heart, hoping that it would PREVENT a massacre because I didn’t want either side to be slaughtered.

Instead both sides got slaughtered and the survivors were all miserable and hated me. Then I told both cult leaders not to stay on the island because, with everyone dead, I figured there’d be nothing to do but sit there and be lonely. Which angered my poofy-haired glowing-eyed cutie even more and sent him North in a rowboat. The miserable Iconoclast then came home to London with me where she resolved to make the sea captain miserable too.

Everything I touched just turned to sh*t and I’m kinda devastated right now

Was there any way to end the story without a mass slaughter? [/spoiler]

66

Nope

67

[quote=Vavakx Nonexus]If you come to visit the Bluejacket, you’ll find out that the 3rd ES of this season will, most likely, not contain a zee-trip:

[spoiler]
Seek the wreck of the Bellot

&quotIf you head down the embankment from here, you’ll see it stuck on a sandbank. My old first mate lives there. We have unsettled business, he and I…&quot[/spoiler]
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 10/1/2016[/quote]
Unless the First Mate asks you to take the trip instead.

68

I second this, though the bridge could also have been done on the wreck.

69

The story was okay although it’s nowhere near my favourite. I didn’t like the ending, though: Two factions live for months together on a small island. Once I get there, they decide out of the blue to smash each other’s heads in (Out of the blue in the sense that there was a disputation the night before and a pageant on the very same day they decided war would be a good idea). And I had no chance to prevent this or at least to get out of there.

Also, a question concerning the very beginning of the story: Why was there a Conflagrati procession in London? They’ve never been mentioned before and they story later on suggested that they’re not interested in going to London. Why did they stop at the Breakwater House when the Iconoclast apparently wasn’t aware of the Bluejacket’s whereabouts? Am I missing something?

70

There’s a larger movement, apparently, though it’s mainly in the Elder Continent. The Iconoclast’s group is just one church.
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/1/2016

71

Yes, the Abiding Wife mentioned having worked in a hospital at Adam’s Way. My understanding was, that the Iconoclast basically gathered a few followers on the Pyres and set zail. They crashed on the small island where we find them months later. From the facts we got it seemed weird that there should be followers in London.

72

Yes, the Abiding Wife mentioned having worked in a hospital at Adam’s Way. My understanding was, that the Iconoclast basically gathered a few followers on the Pyres and set zail. They crashed on the small island where we find them months later. From the facts we got it seemed weird that there should be followers in London.[/quote]
Actually she says the group on the Pyres predated her arrival.

It’s not surprising that London would have them. London has a bit of everything: Devils, Snuffers, Prysberites, Cleonites, Khaganians, Sorrow Spiders…

73

(spoilers for not only this story, but the Last Dog Society as well)

[spoiler] So basically, this was the ending to the Last Dog Society all over again, except on a larger scale. Actively hurt someone to save someone else or be indecisive and double the casualties…and STILL not keep your hands clean because your meddling in something that was both 1.) Not your business and 2.) something you probably didn’t fully understand was what caused the situation in the first place.

Except now instead of having two dead people I never meant to hurt on my conscience, I’ve got dozens.

Look, I get that not every story can have a perfect rainbows and puppydog ending. Sometimes life sucks and you just can’t save everyone. And I also understand that trying to make moral choices in such a situation isn’t easy and can be a very interesting dilemma. But the way the story is set up just didn’t work on either level.

First, while it’s fine when there’s no perfect choice, I hate it when there’s no MORAL choice. As in, no matter what option you choose, you’re still a villain in some way. Pick one side and betray and hurt the other. Pick the other side and betray and hurt the first one. Pick neither side and sit back and watch the chaos YOU sowed double the casualties.

After all, the two Last Dogs probably wouldn’t have agreed to that contest in the marsh if you hadn’t been there meddling in things, playing both sides and leading both to believe they’d survive the contest because you’d help them cheat. The two cults wouldn’t have been so evenly matched in the battle (leading to mutual destruction) if YOU hadn’t been feeding them both info about the others.

Basically, no matter which option you pick, you’re an *sshole. You’re an *sshole the moment you get involved. Literally the only moral option in a story like this is to not play it at all.

Second, while having to decide what to do in a situation where there are no easy choices is very interesting, you should at least have a clear idea of what the choices ARE. I definitely felt my character being pulled in three directions while making the choices…but that was only because I misunderstood what the choices were. I thought the captain’s wife was genuinely benevolent in her intentions, because she seemed to really want to help the Iconoclast. And it initially seemed like we were trying to find a peaceful solution…by undermining each leader’s authority until their followers got discouraged and broke ranks. So I picked what I thought was the most moral option…only to find it was the evilest one of all.

If I had known this route was the worst, I’d have avoided it. I’d still be making a hard choice, since now the most moral option for me would be to side with the woman I’d come to find and felt a moral obligation not to actively try to harm and against the cult I felt had evil intentions…but the choice I WANTED to make was to side with cute Mr. Glowingeyes McPoofyhair because I found him endearing and my character wanted to please him (and I find out after the fact I could have gotten a hug! Oh, and an Element of Dawn too :P ). It would be a hard choice…do the right thing out of moral obligation or the wrong thing out of passion, but at least I’d know what I DIDN’T want to do. And I could have avoided it and gotten an ending that at least partly satisfied me instead of one that made me literally want a do-over.

Hard choices are supposed to be hard because you feel yourself torn between what you know is right and what you really really WANT to do. Or because both choices seem moral, or immoral, in their own way. Not because you literally don’t understand the choices or because you think you understand the choice only to have the rug pulled out from under you and told &quotNope! That choice actually meant the opposite of what you thought it meant! Gotcha!&quot

(I will, however, admit that I could be particularly dense and that I’m the only person who was confused about the wife’s intentions, in which case tell me to shut up :P ) [/spoiler]

74

It’s nice to have most stories end nicely, and Fallen London has this. But its also nice to have occasional stories to say no. You are not a God. You can’t control this. And this story does so.

And this can be a moral choice for several people. Do you support a semi-mindcontrolled but weak willed person. Or do you support the isolated death cult that is a danger to none but itself. Even when you decide to wear both down, the options on every day get more aggressive, preparing for war. From attend a rite to convert their followers to us to help us leave/prepare for an attack. The war was going to happen, regardless of your characters input.

Edit: man, I did not put this together well.
edited by suinicide on 10/2/2016

75

As I said, I’m aware that not all stories end perfectly and I know my character isn’t a god. That doesn’t mean I want him to be forced to be evil no matter what he does. There’s a difference between not being able to prevent bloodshed or save everyone no matter what you do, and actively doing things that will cause deaths. Every option in this story and the other one I mentioned had us doing the latter.

76

My conscience is clear. I crushed that Dawn Machine twerp and set him on fire :P I have no doubt my character’s spiritual guide, the Bishop of Southwark, would wholeheartedly approve.

The situation was not set up for a happy ending. Like, you had some nasty family intrigue, an island divided between two antithetical cults, a woman with an incurable disease, and a large sum of money that has to go somebody. Like, it was going to be terrible no matter what you did. It’s not really your fault: it’s the Bluejackets, the Wife’s, the Iconoclasts, and the Dawn Machines.

77

[quote=Anne Auclair]My conscience is clear. I crushed that Dawn Machine twerp and set him on fire :P I have no doubt my character’s spiritual guide, the Bishop of Southwark, would wholeheartedly approve.

The situation was not set up for a happy ending. Like, you had some nasty family intrigue, an island divided between two antithetical cults, a woman with an incurable disease, and a large sum of money that has to go somebody. Like, it was going to be terrible no matter what you did. It’s not really your fault: it’s the Bluejackets, the Wife’s, the Iconoclasts, and the Dawn Machines.[/quote]

I’m not feeling flush enough for Exceptional membership right now, but I expect the tables to turn later this month and if they do, I expect to take the same side you did, Anne, as my character is a Bishop supporter.

78

Again, I know the situation was crappy and not set up for a happy ending and nobody involved had a clean conscience. And if I’d stayed out of it, the fault would indeed be on all of them and not me. But I stuck my nose in, I meddled, I ultimately decided the direction the battle would go. Because of that, at least some of the blame will go to me, regardless of the fact that others are at fault as well.

Once again, my problem was not that all possible endings were unhappy, it was that all possible choices were immoral. I didn’t get to chose whether I hurt somebody or not, I only got to choose WHO I was going to deliberately hurt. The choice to act in an immoral way was made for me by the game and I only got to chose which group of people I was going to inflict my evil on. I’m being forced to act out of character by the game.
edited by Kukapetal on 10/2/2016

79

[quote=Kukapetal]Again, I know the situation was crappy and not set up for a happy ending and nobody involved had a clean conscience. And if I’d stayed out of it, the fault would indeed be on all of them and not me. But I stuck my nose in, I meddled, I ultimately decided the direction the battle would go. Because of that, at least some of the blame will go to me, regardless of the fact that others are at fault as well.

Once again, my problem was not that all possible endings were unhappy, it was that all possible choices were immoral. I didn’t get to chose whether I hurt somebody or not, I only got to choose WHO I was going to deliberately hurt. The choice to act in an immoral way was made for me by the game and I only got to chose which group of people I was going to inflict my evil on. I’m being forced to act out of character by the game.
edited by Kukapetal on 10/2/2016[/quote]
So you wish there was a neutral option where you could sit back and watch them burn the ship down without your involvement?
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/2/2016

80

[quote=Anne Auclair]
So you wish there was a neutral option where you could sit back and watch them burn the ship down without your involvement?
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/2/2016[/quote]

Ideally I’d like an option to try to stop the bloodshed. Neither side was evil or dangerous enough to justify killing them, so all three options were immoral. Why does the game assume I’ll see a brewing conflict and automatically join in the slaughter? Because those were my only options. &quotActively work against one, actively work against the other, or actively work against both.&quot What if I don’t want to do any of those things? The cult members may be idiots but they don’t deserve to be killed.

Said option doesn’t have to end with everyone holding hands and singing &quotKumbaya,&quot either. If the writers still want to give us a bittersweet ending no matter what we choose, that’s fine and there are plenty of ways to work with that. Maybe you can’t save everyone. Maybe, despite your best efforts, they still end up fighting and you’re forced to pick a side to fight for…purely to minimize casualties Then the ending would be similar to the one we got but you’d have a clean conscience because you at least didn’t actively provoke the conflict. Or maybe you’d be able to convince followers on both sides that this is lunacy and have them withdraw from the conflict and go back to London with you…but you can never convince everyone and the battle still happens but with reduced numbers. Again, in this case, you couldn’t stop it entirely but you minimized casualties. There’s plenty of options to give us a bittersweet ending while still acting morally.

If that’s not an option, then yes, being allowed to withdraw would be the next best thing. Just because I can’t stop potential trouble brewing doesn’t mean I have to join in. If they’re going to have an unjust battle no matter what, I’d rather wash my hands of it and let them duke it out than pick a side and join in the evil. However, I’m not a huge fan of this option because then you get the same problem &quotDiscernment&quot had…throwing people out of exceptional stories they payed for because they don’t want to make their character be evil. People who RP moral characters would be unfairly punished/screwed out of their money.

If neither of those things are options and being evil is literally the only choice, then it should at least be clear WHICH evil option you’re choosing. If the only options are &quotunjustly kill these people,&quot &quotunjustly kill these other people,&quot or &quotunjustly kill everyone,&quot then I at least know what option I DON’T want to pick. I was robbed of my ability to make an informed choice and duped into picking the most evil option because it was unclear (at least to me) that that WAS the most evil option.

This story really messed up my RPing, not only by forcing my character to be evil, but also undoing his previous character development. As I said in a previous post, the first Exceptional story I ever played had a similar problem. However, I tried to make the best of it and have my stupid, thoughtless character learn a lesson about playing with people’s lives, resulting in him becoming a lot nicer. Now that he’s pretty much done the exact same thing but on a larger scale, it;s like he never learned a thing.