So is there any particular reason why cats hate snakes? Is it just because cats and the Fingerkings fight over territory in Parabola, or is there some other, more concrete reason?
As far as I know, that’s all there is to it.
Cats sleep more than 12 hours a day! Parabola is basically their second home (or even their first?)
A lot of cats seem to hold titles tied to territory in Parabola as well.
[quote=Tystefy]So Mr. Candles advocated for the Horn-Flukes (space sea-urchins), promising them a higher place on The Chain.
They bargained with The Bazaar but somehow got swindled into accepting a rather one-sided deal, moving them up on The Chain only marginally enough to leave their home world Axile and come to Earth.
Despite this, the Horn-Flukes kept their part of the bargain: to never love.
And… somehow… the Rubbery Men are… avatars for the Horn-Flukes?[/quote]
Only some of that is accurate. The Bazaar came to Axile and negotiated with the shapelings (likely including the Flukes) which probably involved Mr, Candles in some way, either the negotiating part or actually getting the Bazaar to go there. The Bazaar did not offer the shapelings the power to move up the chain, for that is not a power the Bazaar holds. In fact, the Bazaar might have recruited the shapelings specifically because they know the shapeling arts which can move things up or down the Chain.
The Lorn-Flukes are the Flukes that live in the deep zee and are generally both very big and very mad. The non-Lorn Flukes live in Flute Street and and are more the size of pumpkins. They created the Rubbery Men as their agents in London since it’s hard to achieve things when you’re a spiny beach ball that can’t speak English exist out of the water. (The Flukes are pretty frustrated with the Rubberies though since they don’t understand how difficult getting things done in London can be, even without being oppressed squiddy non-humans.) All the shapelings keep their end of the bargain because breaking a contract with the Bazaar is probably a terrible idea.
The Moon-Misers that live on the roof as the false-stars and create glim are also shapelings, apparently acting as mounts back on Axile.
This is an interesting find, but I don’t think the contents of the Bazaar’s vaults are the ultimate objective of the Great Game. Rather, they’re just one of the many, many things that the spymasters of various nations in, on, and above the Earth are after. Given the parallel of Fallen London’s Great Game to the historical Great Game, I’d guess that the Game is ultimately played for control of the Neath.
Recall one of the sidebar texts (don’t have the exact quote at the moment) that says something like, "The Great Game was once played on the Surface. Now, the Neath is its battleground."
[quote=James Sinclair]
This is an interesting find, but I don’t think the contents of the Bazaar’s vaults are the ultimate objective of the Great Game. Rather, they’re just one of the many, many things that the spymasters of various nations in, on, and above the Earth are after. Given the parallel of Fallen London’s Great Game to the historical Great Game, I’d guess that the Game is ultimately played for control of the Neath.
Recall one of the sidebar texts (don’t have the exact quote at the moment) that says something like, "The Great Game was once played on the Surface. Now, the Neath is its battleground."[/quote]
I would say that, depending on how you define the Great Game, it’s bigger than just Surface and Neath. Chess is a strong motif of the Great Game, A Game of Chess dreams are about intrigues and spies in the dreams/ Parabola, and you play Chess with the Boatman, who is somehow connected to the Judgements. Finally, there might be some parallel to the Great Game in the Salt story. Spacemarine9 thinks/thought so, but I don’t really have enough information to have an opinion one way or another. I was a candle . So maybe the answer is: the Great Game is played for everything? Which is, admittedly, a bit unsatisfying of an answer.[li]
I actually really like this answer.
[quote=menaulon][quote=James Sinclair]
This is an interesting find, but I don’t think the contents of the Bazaar’s vaults are the ultimate objective of the Great Game. Rather, they’re just one of the many, many things that the spymasters of various nations in, on, and above the Earth are after. Given the parallel of Fallen London’s Great Game to the historical Great Game, I’d guess that the Game is ultimately played for control of the Neath.
Recall one of the sidebar texts (don’t have the exact quote at the moment) that says something like, "The Great Game was once played on the Surface. Now, the Neath is its battleground."[/quote]
I would say that, depending on how you define the Great Game, it’s bigger than just Surface and Neath. Chess is a strong motif of the Great Game, A Game of Chess dreams are about intrigues and spies in the dreams/ Parabola, and you play Chess with the Boatman, who is somehow connected to the Judgements. Finally, there might be some parallel to the Great Game in the Salt story. Spacemarine9 thinks/thought so, but I don’t really have enough information to have an opinion one way or another. I was a candle . So maybe the answer is: the Great Game is played for everything? Which is, admittedly, a bit unsatisfying of an answer.[li][/quote]
A more satisfying, yet simple way to say it is simply: Influence. The various small individual players want influence over other individuals. The various nations want influence over other nations. And players like the White, well, the scope and desire of their influence extends even further, doesn’t it?
One thought I had, what with the White being called the White and all, is if there’s another Judgement (or something) out there that is the Black. Like the two sides in a game of chess.
And then I came across some Eaten lore (admittedly I haven’t quite got to that point with my Seeker so don’t quote me on this) where they talk about what happened to Eaten and what you’re trying to do as a Seeker as a planned move in part of a game. They seem visibly perturbed when you do not pursue the hateful, vengeful questions, and instead ask more esoteric or merciful questions like who Salt is and whether Candles can get any sort of Restitution. It’s as if they need Seekers and Eaten to be as polarising and hate filled and vengeful as possible.
So my very tenuous theory there, also remembering Failbetter mentioning how Eaten was a very special case and that we might at some point find out WHY his fate was possible at all, possibly in Sunless Skies, is that Mr. Eaten was created as the Black. Or a move of it. Or if I’m not thinking the right way around, yet another move or pawn of the White. Or all three…the White needed an opponent in the form of the Black? I’m having way too much fun with this, heh heh.
…so uh, yeah, the answer is Influence? shrugs and smiles I feel like anything more concrete and objective would be limiting or cheapen the value of the Game…the win condition would be far too easy for it to still be going on this long between so many different levels of being.[/li]
edited by Indigo Clardmond on 7/20/2017
Regarding “the last February of sunlight”, the fading wash of sunlight occurred on the first of March, implying that the answer may be something that happen the previous month.
[quote=Azothi]It should be noted, though, that this is in the Summer Collection, not Winter (for December) or Spring (for April), and neither July nor August are likely to have made them.
I really like the idea of December being the architect of the Dawn Machine, though, even if it’s almost certainly wrong. There’s a certain irony in the leader of anarchists devoted to darkness creating a machine for authoritarians devoted to light.[/quote]
I don’t think the placement of the Council in Calendar Code means anything. They’re grouped by season, not by theme or else July would be in the room that’s Fingerking themed (I think it’s Spring but it’s been a while).
My argument for April is built on the fact that she clearly has engineering capabilities and that she produces weaponry for the Navy already. If the Navy were looking for an architect someone who already built their best stuff would be the logical conclusion. Of course it’s quite possible that the architect wasn’t an anarchist at all.
I can understand the appeal of December, but I think it’s based more in a desire to know more about a mysterious character than any actual proof.
I think that with all the different factions entwined in the Great Game, the only applicable answer is the one from Wilmot’s End:
“Money. Power. The Game itself. One does not play for a cause, one just plays.”
[li]So I was making a bit of research concerning the cats, the fingerkings and the mirrors.
[li]Since cats are biggers in parabola and fingerkings can have several shapes including dragons, I thought that i would investigate the conflictual relation between tiger and dragons in asia :) they are depicted as ethernal rivals !
[li]I got some interessant information, and found once again report of a yellow emperor (during my first Investigation regarding who closed the mirrors I also foud that name), which is also a hero in "the Fauna of the mirror" from Joge Luis Borges, which we know to be an Inspiration source for fallen London ! this character being also depicted as a sun, could be really of influence in the world we speak of ;)
[li]this texts really give to think about it :
[li]https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxtZWFuZG15c2hhZG93d2FycmVud2lsc29ufGd4OmM1NmQ3OTcxMjk0YmJmOQ
[li]All there is to know is to find who the yellow emperor could be :) easier said than done
[li]
[quote=Infinity Simulacrum]I think that with all the different factions entwined in the Great Game, the only applicable answer is the one from Wilmot’s End:
"Money. Power. The Game itself. One does not play for a cause, one just plays."[/quote]
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I was thinking of when I saw that question, and binging the wiki and a certain blog hasn’t changed my opinion on that matter. Although;
This isn’t a bad answer either. But the question then becomes "how do you define keeps" (assuming that our ratly lords and masters won’t just give us credit for keeps), which is not one I’d enjoy getting into. Keeps might be tea for the common londoner, but I don’t think the White is particularly keen on tea that’s not made of souls (which raises some questions about judgement EGGS, because if the judgements eat souls and judgement eggs are souls, does that mean that the judgements eat the eggs and then barf out a little baby judgement, but that’s a query for another time and another discussion). And the Judgements supposedly have influence over all things that their light touches, so unless the Game of the Judgements involves putting the domains of other Judgements into darkness or just outright stealing them (which I don’t think is a thing, but I could be wrong about that), influence might not fly for them either.
[quote=Indigo Clardmond]And have you considered: you have the Iron, and the Stones, but let us not be caught up in the Fires of fury or the Veils of violence, for we would otherwise engage in Pages of posts trying to capture the Hearts of all around us, Mirrors to each other’s antics. Instead, let us drink deep of the Wines and Spices of the various theories around us, filling our intellectual Cups to the brim.
…How do you like them Apples? ;)[/quote]
You. Me. The parking lot of Denny’s at 12:13am.
[quote=SpectralDragon][quote=Infinity Simulacrum]I think that with all the different factions entwined in the Great Game, the only applicable answer is the one from Wilmot’s End:
"Money. Power. The Game itself. One does not play for a cause, one just plays."[/quote]
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I was thinking of when I saw that question, and binging the wiki and a certain blog hasn’t changed my opinion on that matter. Although;
This isn’t a bad answer either. But the question then becomes "how do you define keeps" (assuming that our ratly lords and masters won’t just give us credit for keeps), which is not one I’d enjoy getting into. Keeps might be tea for the common londoner, but I don’t think the White is particularly keen on tea that’s not made of souls (which raises some questions about judgement EGGS, because if the judgements eat souls and judgement eggs are souls, does that mean that the judgements eat the eggs and then barf out a little baby judgement, but that’s a query for another time and another discussion). And the Judgements supposedly have influence over all things that their light touches, so unless the Game of the Judgements involves putting the domains of other Judgements into darkness or just outright stealing them (which I don’t think is a thing, but I could be wrong about that), influence might not fly for them either.[/quote]
Given that it’s most definitely a Judgement of some sort (heck, that might even BE the White) that is instigating and supporting the Liberation of the Night [see Sunless Sea, giant eye, began long before the humans ever got involved, etc.] it’s clear they don’t all agree with one another, have their own agendas and desires, and seek to influence things for their own celestial purposes.
That quote from Wilmot’s End needs to be taken in context, there are two other answers you can give which very much identifies you with a cause, the Empire or the Revolution, implying that yes, some people do play the Great Game for specific reasons or causes. That option specifically is identifying you as someone who cares for neither, only for the power, money and fun of playing the game.
Which brings me personally back to influence. If we look at the description for Moves in the Great Game, it reads: "The nations of Europe, and beyond, compete for influence. Their plots reach even to the Neath." The ‘and beyond’ bit could easily be taken to mean far out into the High Wilderness, amongst the Judgements and other unspeakable beings. There’s also the fact that the White’s plot quite literally did reach even to the Neath, sending Salt in as well as perhaps the other things it might be responsible for. Whether competing for a cause, personal gain, or something entirely arbitrary, such as the last tin of Lapsang Souchong in Beatrice’s Tea Parlour on a Thursday afternoon, you’re achieving it through the influence you gain by playing the Great Game well.
Think of it like…influence is the prize tickets from winning the arcade version of the Great Game. They can be cashed in for a multitude of things both tangible and intangible, and the more you have, the greater your reward can be.
I’m reminded of a play I saw a little while ago called "Hapgood". It involved an intelligence service, intrigue, plots, traitors, schemes and so on. Towards the end, the protagonist laments over the futility of it all. That all their machinations, secrets, intelligence…all of it has no ultimate point or importance. It’s just one agency or country or rival creating intelligence for another to fight over, so they can both continue to exist. Because they don’t know how to stop.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, for what they’re worth.
That will be a little difficult, given there are no Denny’s in London, Fallen or otherwise. I can offer you some tea though. Black, Red, Yellow, Green, even White.
It really uplifts the soul, you know.
I’m pretty sure that "And beyond" rather refers to other nations on Earth, like Russia and the fledgling United States, rather than the High Wilderness. Considering that the very existence of the Judgments is highly secretive information, it’s unlikely that the Judgments’ great game and the Neathy Great Game ever interact with eachother.
The specific question in the mysteries tab is "What is the Great Game played for?"
the question does not refer to a singular faction or player, but rather to the entire board and its hundreds of pawns, rooks, and queens. The endgoal of the Great Game is non-existent; the Great Game exists for its own sake, and any possible benefit or purpose has been long lost or outweighed by cost. Why is the Great Game played? There is no answer to that; it is played because that’s what it is there for.
edited by Infinity Simulacrum on 7/20/2017
The Game is played to advance. Advance far enough, and even a pawn may be a queen.
Perhaps we’ve already met it.
Wait, what? Well, that’s a pretty solid fact that proves me wrong. Does the White think it’s going to be immune to the consequences of that, or that it can truly control the Liberation? I feel like that’s a genie that the other Judgements should be very afraid of letting out of the bottle… But I suppose in some ways, they’re just as much of fallible jerks as humans are.
I like that as an answer. It’s there, they picked it up, now everyone’s stuck. Fun times for all!
I feel like the Judgements would start flipping the board if a rubbery man got close to becoming one of them. That would be hilarious, though. I support you, Rubbery Judgement!
Wait, what? Well, that’s a pretty solid fact that proves me wrong. Does the White think it’s going to be immune to the consequences of that, or that it can truly control the Liberation? I feel like that’s a genie that the other Judgements should be very afraid of letting out of the bottle… But I suppose in some ways, they’re just as much of fallible jerks as humans are.
I like that as an answer. It’s there, they picked it up, now everyone’s stuck. Fun times for all!
I feel like the Judgements would start flipping the board if a rubbery man got close to becoming one of them. That would be hilarious, though. I support you, Rubbery Judgement![/quote]
The truth is we know very little about the Judgements. Who knows whether extinguishing their light is really the end. The Liberation of the Night could ultimately end up becoming something far beyond the scope of what anyone imagines or envisions it to be at the moment.
And it’s unknown whether the White is the one behind it, or if, as Optimatum speculates, that one is actually called the Black, or is someone or something else entirely. Or whether it even is the one behind it and not some other being in the shadows. I do recall one anarchist referring to their ‘ally’ from beyond, rather than ‘master’. Then again, I don’t think the idea of serving a Judgement or any sort of master would sit will with an anarchist…unless they were a massive hypocrite…but there we go.
As for the Great Game discussion, given all the points we’re raising, I feel like Failbetter will accept any valid sort of answer that can be applied to that question. After all, within the game of Fallen London itself, the answer is multiple choice.
Aha! This item description is a great find, given that Moves in the Great Game are obscure and non-grindable. This is precisely the sort of hidden lore that the Mysteries seem to be focused on. And "influence" does indeed seem to be a catch-all term for what nations and spymasters hope to gain, both in and above the Neath.
I wonder if Failbetter are hoping that people who would not otherwise have thought about the forums will come across them while googling answers, and possibly join up.
That’d be clever.
[quote=Teaspoon]I wonder if Failbetter are hoping that people who would not otherwise have thought about the forums will come across them while googling answers, and possibly join up.
That’d be clever.[/quote]
That was definitely why I joined. Well, less "googling" and more "I binged two wikis and a blog, and I’m still missing answers," but same difference.