Do we have a clear idea what Hell’s attitude towards the Bazaar and the Masters is (or vice versa), in terms of antagonistic, potential allies, or simply indifferent? On the one hand, Hell’s lucrative soul trade appears very compatible with the Bazaar’s space bat capitalism… thing. On the other hand, Hell seems interested in increasing its own independent power by way of the Iron Republic, which from what I’ve gathered in Sunless Sea has some associations with the Revolutionaries (option to sell the Memento Mori etc.).
I wonder if there are any storylets that shed light on the connection between these two factions?
I’m not completely sure, but I get the impression that the two have…agreements. Neither of them have loyalty towards each other, and indeed Hell will do whatever it can to get accomplish what it wishes without getting caught, but they aren’t against each other as far as I’m aware.
What I want to know is how the Bazaar and Hell got along before the Season of Revolutions, whether the current arrangements were worked out before or after then, and whether spirifage was so prevalent beforehand. The answer to the last one is probably yes.
A while ago I diagrammed the various relationships and factions in Fallen London and I came to the conclusion that there is a very low key proxy war going on between the Bazaar and Hell. My evidence for this is as follows:
The 1868 war between London and Hell. Based on the almost immediate annihilation of London’s armies and the devilish sponsorship of the Bishop’s present campaign. I suspect that the war was instigated by infernal agents.
The Iron Republic invasion of Polythreme in an attempt to liberate it. Polythreme pays a tithe of clay men to the Bazaar and is its nominal subject.
The Iron Republic supplies the Empire of Hands with Fuel for their project. London has a well known enmity towards the Pentecost apes.
I realize this is mostly conjecture. Feel free to dispute my claims. edited by IgnatuStone on 7/17/2016
[quote=IgnatuStone]A while ago I diagrammed the various relationships and factions in Fallen London and I came to the conclusion that there is a very low key proxy war going on between the Bazaar and Hell. My evidence for this is as follows:
The 1868 war between London and Hell. Based on the almost immediate annihilation of London’s armies and the devilish sponsorship of the Bishop’s present campaign. I suspect that the war was instigated by infernal agents.
The Iron Republic invasion of Polythreme in an attempt to liberate it. Polythreme pays a tithe of clay men to the Bazaar and is its nominal subject.
The Iron Republic supplies the Empire of Hands with Fuel for their project. London has a well known enmity towards the Pentecost apes.
I realize this is mostly conjecture. Feel free to dispute my claims. edited by IgnatuStone on 7/17/2016[/quote]
First, I’d love to see that diagram.
Second, I’m not sure if I agree with these conclusions. I don’t know if sure Hell has that much control over the Iron Republic despite it ostensibly being their client state, but I suppose the outward anarchy could mask a deeper level of control, which would make for some excellent deniable plausibility.
As for the Campaign of '68, I’m pretty sure the way the Regretful Soldier describes it is that it was a preemptive attack–London was planning to go to war with Hell, but Hell got wind of it and hit them first. (The Bishop’s campaign being sponsored by the devils makes me think that they were trying to instigate a second war, but only because the first one proved to be so profitable with their whole souls-for-hostages thing.)
Aside from that, I think conflating London and the Bazaar entirely is a mistake. Their interests diverge pretty significantly, especially in that if London had had any say in the matter it wouldn’t be Fallen. (I feel like "They know what they did" is a London admiralty order rather than something that comes straight from the Masters, but I didn’t play the ES in question so if that was expanded on there I missed it.)
[quote=IgnatuStone]A while ago I diagrammed the various relationships and factions in Fallen London and I came to the conclusion that there is a very low key proxy war going on between the Bazaar and Hell. My evidence for this is as follows:
The 1868 war between London and Hell. Based on the almost immediate annihilation of London’s armies and the devilish sponsorship of the Bishop’s present campaign. I suspect that the war was instigated by infernal agents.
The Iron Republic invasion of Polythreme in an attempt to liberate it. Polythreme pays a tithe of clay men to the Bazaar and is its nominal subject.
The Iron Republic supplies the Empire of Hands with Fuel for their project. London has a well known enmity towards the Pentecost apes.
I realize this is mostly conjecture. Feel free to dispute my claims.[/quote]
I am not going to dispute you, but here’s some additions -
The Iron Republic invaded Polythreme, but apparently they was caught by surprise by the island’s self defense in general. Or, at least, they are woefully unprepared and get trounced.
Informing the Masters of the Bishop’s invasion plans does very little. At the minimum, the Masters aren’t concerned about stopping him.
When I moved into the Sanctums the devil who was showing me around said they wanted the Bazaar to be happy, I can’t seem to find the echo right now, also I have noticed an alliance between Hell and Parabola, I don’t know how but they seem to know and work with the Fingerkings, which would mean they are not too comfortable on their partnership with the Bazaar.
As of the Iron Republic it doesn’t seem to be part of a power struggle but of an experiment, should the Bazaar fail on it’s mission and the cities stop falling. I don’t think there’s a direct connection between Hell and the Revolutionaries, they just like the place for it’s chaos. edited by Brito on 7/19/2016
I actually just moved into my sanctum today, so I have the echo right at hand!
[quote]
"Here’s your little throne. These machines will bring you noise and sustenance, and whisper to you of the city outside. Just… keep doing what you’re doing, will you? The Bazaar likes it. And we only want it to be happy, don’t we?"[/quote]
Which doesn’t exactly sound sincere. More like they’re trying to keep it placated.
[quote]
"Here’s your little throne. These machines will bring you noise and sustenance, and whisper to you of the city outside. Just… keep doing what you’re doing, will you? The Bazaar likes it. And we only want it to be happy, don’t we?"[/quote]
Which doesn’t exactly sound sincere. More like they’re trying to keep it placated.[/quote]
Thank you! Yes indeed, but not once have I heard these humanoid bees sound honest, it sounds to me like an official stance, and the best move.
Hell isn’t in league with London’s revolutionaries per se; Hell was, however, influenced by the revolutionary ideas, leading to the Season of Revolutions which brought an end to thrones in Hell, and sent any remaining princes and nobility into exile or… well, suffice to say they experienced some changes.
The Iron Republic was a colony of Hell; here the revolution… well, to avoid spoilers let’s just say they followed political anarchism through to it’s most extreme conclusions (and being of greatly hardier stock than humans have been able to continue inhabiting the place afterward). It’s a delightful place really; I visit as often as I am able and would recommend it to anyone interested in a change of scenery. edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016
Say, while we’re on the topic of the Iron Republic, what is it’s purpose anyway? A devil seems to imply that they’re using it for experiments ‘since the Bazaar won’t be around forever’ but what’s he getting at with that?[li]
I can’t remember exactly… but from the way he says it, maybe he is talking about the Liberation of Night? In general, I wouldn’t be suprised if people came to the Iron Republic to prepare for it.
[/li]
[quote=Pnakotic]Hell isn’t in league with London’s revolutionaries per se; Hell was, however, influenced by the revolutionary ideas, leading to the Season of Revolutions which brought an end to thrones in Hell, and sent any remaining princes and nobility into exile or… well, suffice to say they experienced some changes.
The Iron Republic was a colony of Hell; here the revolution… well, to avoid spoilers let’s just say they followed political anarchism through to it’s most extreme conclusions (and being of greatly hardier stock than humans have been able to continue inhabiting the place afterward). It’s a delightful place really; I visit as often as I am able and would recommend it to anyone interested in a change of scenery. edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016[/quote]
A change in scenery is one thing; but a change in scenery–at the same place–once every few hours? That’s why I seldom visit the Iron Republic; I’m rarely that bored. ;-)
My take on the Iron Republic is that it’s a separate law-set, along with the Dawn Machine, Parabola and the Neath, that just happens to be extremely random and has strange advertisement.
P.S. Also, only the law-maker factions seem to be able to have above-3 card Lodgings. That being the Masters (that are working for the Bazaar, which is working for the Sun and has strong ties to the Mountain of Light), the Devils (who created the Iron Republic, which houses a separate and complicated system of laws) and the Fingerkings/kets (who live in Parabola, where the law can be easily modified.) through the Royal Beth. edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 7/20/2016
[quote=Catherine Raymond][quote=Pnakotic]Hell isn’t in league with London’s revolutionaries per se; Hell was, however, influenced by the revolutionary ideas, leading to the Season of Revolutions which brought an end to thrones in Hell, and sent any remaining princes and nobility into exile or… well, suffice to say they experienced some changes.
The Iron Republic was a colony of Hell; here the revolution… well, to avoid spoilers let’s just say they followed political anarchism through to it’s most extreme conclusions (and being of greatly hardier stock than humans have been able to continue inhabiting the place afterward). It’s a delightful place really; I visit as often as I am able and would recommend it to anyone interested in a change of scenery. edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016[/quote]
A change in scenery is one thing; but a change in scenery–at the same place–once every few hours? That’s why I seldom visit the Iron Republic; I’m rarely that bored. ;-)[/quote]
My attention span is pretty much shot these days.
[li]