Improving a Bad Rep: The ends justify the means?

For the longest time I never considered acquiring a gang of hoodlums despite the benefits because i would be forced to do terribly unorthodox things to acquire them (beating up beggars and giving poor sods to the devils). And as one aligned with the Constables, this seemed a tad unworthy of me. But I recently did the Souls Trade Fate Content and the long story short and spoiler free I find myself in need of souls and infernal contracts.

For those reading who consider acquiring this storylet, do remember to stock up on the stuff.

Anyways, a good and gratifying source of souls and inferanl contracts is robbing the Brass Embassy as part of a Score in the Flit. The best option instantly available seemed to be to spend 5 action points to get a large amount of cp, thus getting me to the straightforward Casing of 18 that I need for the job. But, if I get the Gang of Hoodlums I can spend 5 points on an even better option that gives me more for each point towards Casing. I can therefore expediently rob the Brass Embassy and free the souls, but only if I do terrible things to get my own gang of hoodlums. ]

So, what do you guys think - would my character be immoral if he acquired the gang of hoodlums with the intention of using them to rob the Brass Embassy to free captive souls?


edited by Owen Wulf on 5/27/2013
edited by Owen Wulf on 5/27/2013

I acquired my gang for the exact same reasons. Remember, this is your story. Your gang could be a group of villains looking for pay, or perhaps they are likeminded souls helping you to snatch souls out of the mouth of Hell. Your imagination creates the world of Fallen London more than the text can. [li]

Do be warned that you will required to throw an informant to the devils to be hunted. However, in my story I decided that he was a Spritfer as well.

So I say go for it.

Are you willing to sacrifice your ethics if it means that more people may be reunited with their souls? Can you sleep well knowing that you’re doing the Neath a great service, or is your night troubled by what you’ve had to do in order to accomplish this? What other people think of your character isn’t as important as what your character thinks about himself. It’s his decision to make. But yeah, you can use your imagination to make it less terrible if you want. Whatever works best for you. :)
edited by Sara Hysaro on 5/27/2013

&quotEthics&quot is a word the lower classes use to justify their sloth!

What do your supposed crimes truly amount to? Doling out a few bumps and bruises to the mad criminals of The Flit. What do you think your precious Constables do on their daily rounds? If you’re afraid to get into a proper scrape, lad, then you’ve no place being associated with any copper worth his salt. Besides, these aren’t choir boys you’re knocking about. These are Raggedy Men; 'ard nosed bastards who spend most of their days taking all the can from the poor saps below. The rest of the day is spent keeping other 'ard nosed bastards away from their rightfully stolen loot. You’re probably not even the fifth fella they’ve had a go with today.
Besides, they’re madder than hatters. Probably won’t remember it anyway.

As for the poor soul you’re tossing to the devils, don’t pity that poor wretch. He is an informer! A betrayer. The lowest of the low. Dante told of how he shall be devoured in the lowest levels of Hell and you think a little running in the Quarter is the worst you can do to him? This Brutus has no qualms, no scruples, no remorse for his inexcusable actions and you are worried about meting out a little well deserved justice? If you’re aligned with the coppers, then I pity the victims of the criminals you would let back out onto the streets because you feel sorry for the &quotpoor sods.&quot
This poor sod choose a life of crime and then choose to betray his fellow criminals, his friends and his family just to save himself a little bit of time in New Newgate? He is a man without honor who choose the path of Judas before submitting to justice. He cannot be trusted to live the life of the law abiding, nor can he live by the code of honor amoungst thieves. The good book tells us how the betrayers are the devils themselves, so I say let them have the back stabbing wretch!

None of that matters a dram, though. If you intend to be a person of influence amoungst the great and powerful, then you need to eschew these plebeian notions of right and wrong. If you wish to truly liberate the people of London from the Soul trade, then you need to be willing to do what is necessary. The enemy will stop at nothing to continue their vile practice and if you are too busy hanging your head in guilt at the troubles of the world, then they shall emerge victorious.

Of course, if you’re really bothered by what you have to do to get a Gang of Hoodlums together you can always go the efficient route for Souls and Contracts. 18 actions versus 44 is certainly a big difference. I still like my gang, though. And robbing the Brass Embassy is more gratifying, as you’ve noted.

grin Why, Owen, if I didn’t know you any better, I’d say you only came here to get us to espouse your justifications.

Your character’s motivations are well-intentioned, though the methods are highly immoral. Let’s not kid ourselves. Even if we lie to the world, shouldn’t we at least remain truthful to ourselves? (Of course, denial does aid some people in getting a restful night’s sleep. Can’t sneeze at a good night’s sleep.)

Why even bandy words like “immoral” and “ethics”? It boils down to this scenario: when the devils torture the informant in front of his family, do you have the nerve to stare back into their eyes? Can you live with the possibility that they hate you? Blame you? View you as someone more vile than the worst of devils? They’ll spread the word, too. Or maybe they’ll be so traumatized that they won’t be able to feel anything other than horror and shock; then you won’t have to worry about the earlier stuff I said. Of course, that’s my spin on things. For all we know, the informant was a terror to his family, and they’re relieved that he’s no longer fit to remain in the household. If there are any living pieces of him left, they’ll probably be taken to the Tomb Colonies. You might have saved the family from a horrible despot. shrug

If and when you attain a Gang of Hoodlums, it’ll be most noteworthy. An entire paragraph might even be required to recount it in “Slowcake’s Exceptionals”. Fatten up your soul nice and proper… wink

Sara’s math stands. If you really want to be efficient, you’d attend to some Unfinished Business in Watchmaker’s Hill and Spite. The 44 actions are for a 90% chance at robbing the Embassy. If you want a 100% chance (to avoid the 10% chance of being jailed, loss of half a level of Shadowy, and losing a great deal of Hell connections), you’ll have to spend 5 more actions.

Something to ponder: I’ve learned that not everyone wishes to be reunited with their soul; many gave theirs away willingly. I hesitate to say this, but are we certain the C.V.R. does what the head committee says it does? A secret society doesn’t quite lend itself to technological transparency. If it turns out they’re a third player in the big game of mining soul fuel, I’m gonna be mighty annoyed and impressed. Like, hot damn, nice coverup, fellas.

Alright, fine, I am getting the gang together. I already fed the informant to the devils. And right after that I fed a corrupt vicar to my plant.

Thanks for the chip in everyone.

The C.V.R. is an organization that does ME plenty of good, whether it helps those poor unfortunates I wish to help or not, who can say? It’s a win/win for me.

Indeed. Also, for those who care, robbing the brass embassy raises a rather unique quality, with various levels (Capping at 5 it seems). Though, it appears robbing the brass embassy now caps lower than 5, and you’ll need to rob the bazaar to go further.

The answer is simple. Be Batman.

I got really wealthy with the simple expedient of pretending to be a devil in Sprite’s unfinished business and taking the souls from the spriffers. 50 per action, 20 actions plus one to fence the souls gets you 3000 nevercold brass, or 1.49 echos per action. Better than nearly anywhere else.

(wanted to do this like a “make a fortune in your spare time at home wihtout moving from your chair” ad, but don’t have the time right now)

When a man goes forth to exterminate an evil through any means necessary, he becomes indistinguishable from the evil he set forth to extinguish.

Considering my equipment and accoutrements, you may be right about that.

edited by Owen Wulf on 5/30/2013

I’ve got one for you. I’m stealing souls from the Brass Embassy so that I can trade them back to Hell for Amanita Sherry, so that I have enough Sherry to assemble five Portfolios of Souls.

Then I’m going to give away those souls in pursuit of my daughter’s murderer.

I don’t even have a justifiable motive, per se.

I justified that one on the basis that not all souls are stolen by spifers, many if not most are traded willingly, and what a consenting adult does with their soul is their business. My main is actively involved with the Shepherds but considers it rather bad sport if a gentleman who traded his soul for wealth and fame is able to keep such benefits AND his soul.

In this case they gathered together far souls more than they needed to create the Portfolios and then turned some over to the Shepherds and the rest to Hell, so I could say they had shifted through them first to fish out the innocent ones.

[quote=Flidget]I justified that one on the basis that not all souls are stolen by spifers, many if not most are traded willingly, and what a consenting adult does with their soul is their business. My main is actively involved with the Shepherds but considers it rather bad sport if a gentleman who traded his soul for wealth and fame is able to keep such benefits AND his soul.

In this case they gathered together far souls more than they needed to create the Portfolios and then turned some over to the Shepherds and the rest to Hell, so I could say they had shifted through them first to fish out the innocent ones.[/quote]
Heh. Yeah. I decided that the souls I was stealing from the Brass Embassy were generally there out of choice. And that really, I was maintaining the status quo and milking Hell at the same time. So at least I’m amoral. :D[li]

Even though I’m not much of a Roleplayer, the part that required me to kill the informer in such classic villiany made me hesitate. In the end, although I decided to go with it because it’s just a game, I had to write bunch of apology in that story’s echoing title. :(

<u>Even worse, his youngest child did not underwent numerous training and hardships to confront me, shouting out his name, the reason he’s here, and what he will do. In that case, at least I can show my atonement to him/her and accept the wage of sin.</u>
[li]