So I’m a POSI with respectable, but not great stats (W107/S104/D81/P143 base). I’m increasingly finding myself hemmed in by the slow progress I’m making with stat growth–notably, I’d like to reach POSI Tier 2 at some point before Christmas. But I 1) really don’t like the idea of having a farm of alts, which seems to me an abuse of the rules even if everyone appears to be doing it; 2) prefer not to use social actions with other players; 3) would like to be making SOME sort of progress on stories so I’m not parked at the Court with a talkative rat for weeks on end, because that’s just boring. At this rate, I’m barely getting a level or two of stat growth per stat a week, even though I’m powering through content quite quickly. How does everyone else do it? Do people really sit on FL all day with a stable of alts grinding out social action after social action?
I see three options available to you:
- To start to interact with other players via social actions
- To break on a violent spree of alts exploitation
- To spend a fortune for numerous action bar refills
Choose yourself. In case you are not satisfied with provided options, you may always contact FB and describe them your issue.
I.m a stat capped player and I’ve done it without using many second chances and definitely not farming social actions from my alts. But I have been playing a long time and nearly every day.
For quick stat boosting I like seeking curios in the Forgotten Quarter as actions there can raise two stats and there are things for every stat. Of course you do have to watch out for nightmares.
I also like 90% challenges (2cp on success) and anything else that boosts more than 1 stat at a time. Just keep playing and those stats will increase.
Alt "farming" is not very common, I believe. Many have one to three other alts for story purposes and perhapse to help in several issues. But I don’t believe there are many who goes FARMING simply because rushing the Fallen London is a mistake and loses its meaning. This is a game for the long run, and for the lore and stories, and even if you are stat-capped and story-capped, you still have 3 years to grind for a certain Cider or many months for a goat or a 21 on the correspondants… There’s a topic with all the crazy goals people put for themselves - it all takes time.
You and I are in a great place - we both have a lot of lore to expose. I’m even kind of afraid to finish everything before Failbetter can write something new.
So, just explore, and switch the scenery so you won’t get bored (today at the court, tomorrow hunting beasts at the docks, another day try and be the best thief there is…) while upgrading your stat and unlocking new content.
I myself don’t like the idea of an alt - so I never used one.
Also, I myself don’t like the idea of grinding second chances to accelerate stats. It feels out of context and kinda like rushing thing and… cheating…
I staterd playing in April (I think) and I’m at a good place (have a look at my profile). It will come to you, if you can take the time to enjoy whatever YOU like in the FL.
Disclosure - I am an exceptional friend, which gives me 20 more actions per day. And yes, I log in everyday.
Feel free to send me a card and ask for social interactions. I myself need it.
Good luck =)
edited by Gonen on 9/21/2015
If you stick you low risk challenges you should see a stat gain (70cp) every 40 actions or so. Get your Hedonist up to 8 (Intimate of Devils is an easy source) so that you can gain second chances from the Give a Gift card. Maintain your Great Game and Church connections high enough to get second chances from their conflict card as well.
At your level I explored the Forgotten Quarter until I had SotC 7 and a Ray-Drenched Cinder, which is good for an all around boost. A bit of Wilmot’s End and War of Assassins for POSI items later on. It’s nice to keep a few Collection of Curiosities around to sell to the Tomb Colonists.
Persuasive pulled ahead as my main stat after grinding each of the unique books at court. After that I boosted it a bit via social actions at the House of Chimes, as it’s an extremely efficient source of confident smiles.
Shadowy was in second after some time in The Flit grinding 4 card lodgings. After that I frequently sold information for a shadowy boost because grinding casing was the quickest way to dump actions when I had no time to play. Unfinished Business and Boxes of Intrigue finished it off.
Watchful was maxed next. Once you begin the investigation at The University there’s an option to talk to porters, which yields a Sudden Insight each time. Every 4 successes you can cash in your Investigating by raiding a message drop in The Flit.
Dangerous lagged behind, but the Velocipede Squad and Labyrinth content provide a ton of Dangerous grinding, doubly so if you opt for the fate-locked continuations.
Perhaps the better question is: Why are you rushing towards the higher POSI tiers? :-)
There are 144 possible actions in a day (not taking into account using Fate and/or coffee to restore actions).
Even if all challenges are straightforward (thus giving just one cp) it’s still possible to advance 2 levels of any quality per day (if you play frequently), without using any social actions or alts.
With your current stats you should be able to easily find challenges with less than 90% chance of success, which can give more cp.
Of course, how many actions you can actually play in a day out of the 144 is up to you. The fewer of those actions you take the slower you’ll progress.
Note that this isn’t necessarily a bad thing: takes your time and set small goals for yourself. The main qualities will increase on their own.
I recommend taking on the case about Jack-of-Smiles. After accepting the case you will receive new options on the faction cards, which allow you to earn progress by spending 5 actions - but you also get 4cp stat per action for Dangerous or Watchful.
So you grind these card to infinity without actually spending the progress.
[quote=foucault]So I’m a POSI with respectable, but not great stats (W107/S104/D81/P143 base).
I’m increasingly finding myself hemmed in by the slow progress I’m making with stat growth–notably, I’d like to reach POSI Tier 2 at some point before Christmas. But I
really don’t like the idea of having a farm of alts, which seems to me an abuse of the rules even if everyone appears to be doing it;
prefer not to use social actions with other players;
would like to be making SOME sort of progress on stories so I’m not parked at the Court with a talkative rat for weeks on end, because that’s just boring.
At this rate, I’m barely getting a level or two of stat growth per stat a week, even though I’m powering through content quite quickly. How does everyone else do it?
Do people really sit on FL all day with a stable of alts grinding out social action after social action?[/quote]
The ‘return’ key. Use it!
Anyway, no. Sitting on FL all day abusing alts, whilst it will work, is not the way to do things. You will have to play for many months though, it is a bit of a slog.
Not sure what you mean by tier 2 POSI, unless it’s a profession, which means you need 2 notability. As you are already a POSI, then that means making waves. Getting items that give bizarre/dreaded/respectable quality should make that easier, and there should be lots of things to work towards (club membership, transport, god’s editors, buying gear) that help with that.
One thing you can accelerate stat-wise is watchful. Follow the investigation at the University, use "Talk to the Porters" option once you can succeed more often than not, then go to the Flit and "Raid a Message-drop" using the investigating quality you gained to return some clues you need to pay the porters…and repeat.
This gets a lot of sudden insights which can be converted to a big boost in watchful. Will cap at 20, so turn them in 4x5 at a time.
There’s also 2 cards that will give 1 each all of 4 second chances. Siding with the Church vs. Great Game (replenish GG connection with Copper Cipher Ring item) and "I myself am my only friend" from the gift card. Use 'em, they add up.
I want a 5-card lodging, and I thought that was the only way to get one, right?
There’s a much cheaper and easier way to get one around Christmas. You won’t need a specialization for that.
Yes, plus the story is pretty cool too! I really enjoyed this one.
Contrary to popular belief, using alts to grind second chances isn’t that good unless your alt is already higher level than you are, which sort of defeats the point. See when you send a social action for second chances, the person with the lower stats generally loses the challenge (with a small chance of winning) and gains 2x second chances. This is what makes it worth while; however, with an alt, usually it has worse stats than your "main" (else, it would be the main, no?) and that means you are going to always win the challenge and only get 1 second chance and some making waves. Which sort of defeats the point.
Most people who grind social actions are in fact doing it for the making waves and the notability (because they are already high level), not for stats. This is a good thing if you want to use a high level friend to trade social actions because it means its a mutually beneficial action (levels for you, waves for your friend). If you are getting one second chance and no profit and don’t want or need the making waves (as you would using a low level alt) then its horribly inefficient. This is a good thing if you want to use a high level friend to trade social actions because it means its a mutually beneficial action (levels for you, waves for your friend). You can get single second chances literally everywhere through normal play of stories and cards (especially things like conflict cards). Plus story sources tend to give additional bonuses, like cp connected, small amounts of echos, etc.
So if you are intent on second chance leveling, 1. an alt is a bad idea, 2. using friends are a good idea if they are high level, its sort of like an extension on the patron/protege system, 3. if you don’t want to use friends or any social action, just be mindful of which cards and story options you encounter in normal play that give second chances and spend them as you gain them. Not to say second chance leveling is required or even always advisable. Some stories are on par with or nearly as good as second chances, such as selling casing to criminals in the flit for shadowy. Most people, though, just find an echo grind of preference, such as the affair of the box or expeditions, grind out for some rare item, and by the time they get to it they are leveled (if they have completed the story content and have nothing else to do and are already pretty high level). Apologies if this is a bit long, but I felt I should clear up this misconception that alt farming is actually useful in this specific instance (also you would never need more than like 1 or 2 alts to try it, so it wouldn’t even be a battery or farm proper).
edited by NiteBrite on 9/22/2015
If you avoid Nadir maxing stats naturally should not be a problem at all. The only slight problem is that some stats are slightly more useful than others. I maxed Shadowy ages ago doing the box, but my Watchful never ever hits max, because there is not much to use it on and Nadir drains stats like you wouldn’t believe it.
You don’t need POSI specialization for anything of importance.
I disagree with NiteBrite. If all you want is stat increase, having an alt is very useful and even one Second Chance per action will do wonders for your stats. Maxing stats with an alt IS fast. It’s just not profitable. And you don’t need more than one alt for that yes.
[quote=Fhoenix]If you avoid Nadir maxing stats naturally should not be a problem at all. The only slight problem is that some stats are slightly more useful than others. I maxed Shadowy ages ago doing the box, but my Watchful never ever hits max, because there is not much to use it on and Nadir drains stats like you wouldn’t believe it.
You don’t need POSI specialization for anything of importance.
I disagree with NiteBrite. If all you want is stat increase, having an alt is very useful and even one Second Chance per action will do wonders for your stats. Maxing stats with an alt IS fast. It’s just not profitable. And you don’t need more than one alt for that yes.[/quote]
The expected average cp gain from cashing in second chances is +25 cp. At one second chance an action plus an additional action to cash in the chances thats 25cp/6 actions or 4.2 cp an action. That’s the same as succeeding at a tough (31%-40%) challenge. So it’s no better than basically trying any challenging storylet action possible, which there will be grindable challenging stories if you aren’t stats capped. The one advantage it offers is you don’t risk menace gain at the trade off of no chance of gaining profit while grinding. So it’s okay, but its not so great that it merits putting it on a pedestal as the meta. You really need to be getting 2x chances for it to be especially worth while.
Edit: I guess the next question is at what point does it become good? Assuming broad 50, at half your stats or less the alt always loses making second chances grinding on par with normal storylets. When you and your alt or friend have equal stats you get double chances half the time, or +5.7 cp on average. That’s a 43% improvement over a normal storylet. And when your friend has twice as much stats as you do, you get double chances every time or 7.1 cp an action on average which is a 78% improvement over a normal storylet. If all you wanted was stats and you could stand not to make ~any~ item or echo profit while focusing stats (which is like a 39 echo loss per stats level gained) it’s okay with a low level alt, good with one that is the same level, and amazing with one that is double your level.
This sounds pretty good until you think about it like your stats are already in the 100s and you are just now starting a new account. By the time the alt is at a useful level (100s also) you’ll have already hit stats cap. And if it was double your level it’d be at stats cap (and your main). I guess if you started both accounts at the same time, and ran them both equally (like having two mains who act identically) it’d be doable, but that seems unlikely to me that someone would do that. Plus you’ll have lost almost 4000 echos going from 100 to 200.
Bottom line, if you don’t get 2X chances then both storylets and second chances take the same number of actions to level you, except you’ll be 4000 echos richer with storylets for no extra effort. It gets faster with a friend but you never get a 100% action improvement to make up for the echo loss.
edited by NiteBrite on 9/22/2015
The numbers are a lot better if you always have your alt send you the invite rather than vice versa. Assuming, as NiteBrite did, that the challenge is broad 50 at the invitee’s level, then if your alt has half your stats you’ll lose 25% of the time, for an average of 1.25 second chances per action or +5cp per action (including the action to cash in the second chance). That’s pretty darn good!
By comparison, grinding a 100% straightforward challenge averages 1cp, 90% = 1.9cp, 50% = 2cp, 40% = 2.8cp, 30% = 3.6cp, and 10% = 4.2cp (see the wiki page on gameplay; the sweet spot is always the top of each range). So unless you can reliably find a high-risk or almost impossible challenge, grinding second chances really is a lot faster, and that’s not even taking into account menaces. As your alt’s level raises (you’re cashing in the second chances on them too, right?) the grind gets even better.
How much faster is "a lot faster"? There’s 7000 cp from level 100 to 200. Over that range, the difference between 4cp and 5cp is 12 days vs 10 days of grinding at 144 actions a day which is a fairly minor improvement really considering the echo loss. If someone said "give up 10 days of your life to me and in exchange I’ll give you two days back," that’s obviously a bad deal. Now 7 cp cuts it down to 6 days of grinding and that’s pretty big, it’s the break even point. But see above why that’s unlikely with an alt, and even with a high level alt this condition only lasts until your stats are in the 135 range (due to caps on how high your friends stats can be). After that point it’s diminishing returns.
edited by NiteBrite on 9/22/2015
Not getting menaces is a huge factor, though. Especially if you compare a person who is using an alt for second chances and a person who is grinding through tough challenges and NOT using an alt for menace reduction.
I already agreed that the method is not profitable. We are discussing methods to max stats fast, not to be efficient in general.
Because I’m a huge dork, and I only seem to comment these days when it has to do with calculating some grind, I ran a quick simulation of expected profit while leveling. The code’s not super complicated. I can share it with anyone that’s interested via a PM.
Assuming you’re grinding boxful of intrigue, if you start at level 110 with +20 to shadowy from gear, then by the time you reach level 200 you’ll be about 6450 echoes richer and 5030 actions poorer. I’m assuming you can get rid of two menace points per action. If instead you grind second chances, assuming an average of 5cp per action, it’ll take you 1260 actions to get to level 200. If you then switch to boxful of intrigue it’ll take you about 3925 actions to make up the 6450 echoes you missed out on (you make money faster when you’re already level 200), for a grand total of 5185 actions to get to the same point.
You could make this more complicated by switching gear to try to be at the optimal cp payoff or by giving up on second chances once the box grind becomes more profitable, but the basic result is still going to be that the difference between the two methods isn’t that big. Making money slowly while leveling is just about as profitable as a dash to the stat-cap and then making money more quickly. Whether or not it’s more enjoyable is totally up to you.
That’s an interesting bit of trivia to know. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this research.