Good ways of making Echoes for a POSI?

Hello.

As a POSI my stats are:

149 Watchful
140 Shadowy
122 Dangerious
199 Persuasive (Nadir lowered it a bit)

I was wondering what some good places to make Echoes were. I can get some Fate if needed. Note: I’m not really saving for anything, i just want Echoes.

The main thread I first read, and use as a guide, is this:
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic804-an-indepth-look-at-money-options.aspx

I’ve heard that expeditions in the Forgotten Quarter can be lucrative with Fate, provided you’re lucky. I tend to do expeditions in my spare time for random useful stuff, but don’t generally do it efficiently enough to claim anything more than a decent income. But when I get an Omen I tend to pull out all the stops with the Porters, and find as many Cache’s as I can find… but that’s because I can just about get 270 buffed Watchful to make the buccaneering check a guaranteed success…
edited by fitz on 7/4/2015

The wiki’s got a good guide for this too… http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Money-Making

But the short answer is that unless you’re a Spirifer (that is, played the ‘Trade in Souls’ fate-locked story and picked the fork) your best bet is to run the Boxful of Intrigues as the Conscience of Empires, while occasionally going through the War of Assassins to make sure you’re stocked with Collections of Curiosities you can sell to the Tomb-Colonists whenever their card appears.

And if you ARE a Spirifer, well… there’s a thread about that further down. http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20069-a-profitable-grind-for-spirifers.aspx

If you finished the Aunt story with Fate, the Carnelian Coast is quite attractive once you max your stats.

Hunter’s Keep is also not too bad a choice, but it is all about getting lucky and getting Searing Enigma.

Alternatively, if you need cash in a hurry and have very high Persuasive (preferably 250+ with gears), you can bomb your Connected: Society in the Temple Club for Jade. It is not attractive to specifically grind Society for it, though.

The Blemmigan Affair, of course, provides a very good options in opportunity cards that become top of the line once you get 250+ relevant stats.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 7/4/2015

I believe the big list of mad fat dosh is something like…

  • Heists (~1.9-2.0 epa if you can draw cards one by one and you have a five card lodging and 10+ dreaded.)[/li][li]Tomb Colonists (1.78 epa. This isn’t, strictly speaking, grindable but the card is pretty common)[/li][li]Spirifage (~1.73 epa, and some opp. cards make it better. Fate locked though, and you need Connected: Hell)[/li][li]AotB (1.64 epa. Completely consistent and predictable)[/li][li]Fidgeting Writer (I’ve seen other people claim values as high as ~2.0 epa for this, but I calculate it at 1.57 epa including grinding the components.)[/li][li]Carnelian Coast (Somewhere around ~1.5, possibly higher but you lose London opp. cards)[/li][li]Expeditions (somewhere between 1.24 and 1.57 depending on frequency of A Sign and your willingness to sell eyeless skulls to the revolutionaries, requires very high watchful)

edited by Sackville on 7/7/2015

Keep in mind that the Affair of the Box is dependent on which side you happen to be on. If you’re on the Pro-Masters side you’ll only get 1.42 epa through it. It was alluded to previously, but I just wanted to reiterate it.

edited by Sara Hysaro on 7/5/2015

[quote=Sara Hysaro]Keep in mind that the Affair of the Box is dependent on which side you happen to be on. If you’re on the Pro-Masters side you’ll only get 1.42 epa through it. It was alluded to previously, but I just wanted to reiterate it.

edited by Sara Hysaro on 7/5/2015[/quote]
How about the other side?

[quote=Sackville]AotB (1.64 epa. Completely consistent and predictable)[/quote]

Actually, assuming rougly even spread of airs values (for treasures) and about 5% chance of &quota sign&quot, doing deep blue heaven while replenishing supplies using dockers (glim comes from educating lyme at about 124 ppa, rostygold from unfinished/watchmaker/wade into fights at about 120 ppa) and selling eyless skulls (with 10% chance to happen) to revolutionaries (you may not like this), I am estimating 1.77 epa here …

Maybe I’m thinking about before the dockers was an option, and you had to get supplies from whispered secrets or - shudder - Corpsecage loops. With the Docks option though…

150 glim at 1.24 epa is 1.21 actions, 3 more actions to play the tankard gets you 75 Docks cp, so Connected: Docks is 17.8 cp/action, and 60 cp is 3.37 actions.
50 rostygold at 1.2 epa is 0.42 actions, so playing the Hire Porters option will get you 3 supplies for 3.37 + 0.42 + 1 to play the storylet = 4.79 actions.

We’ll say you see A Sign once per expedition (which is a very generous overestimate if we blow through the expedition 3 progress at a time), and you also get 1x progress when you begin. So on average you’ll need to grind 15 supplies each expedition. At 4.79 actions per 3 supplies that’s 4.79 * 5 = 24 actions.

Playing a Buccaneering Approach every time it will take five actions to spend your supplies, one action to start, one action to play A Sign, and two actions to finish the expedition and unwrap your treasure (iirc). That’s nine more actions, for a total of 33 actions per DBH expedition.

If unpredictable treasures are uniformly rolled from between 1 and 160 airs, I calculate the EV at 50.55 echoes. If you get a skull 10% of the time, the total EV of the expedition is 50.550.9 + 62.60.1 = 51.75 echoes (ignoring actions spent to sell skulls or collections)

51.75 echoes / 33 actions = 1.57 epa (or 1.42 epa if you sell skulls to the bazaar instead of the revs). This is still worse than AotB but good enough and with enough potential upside to be worth considering.

(I think the actual numbers are closer to 1.37/1.24 though, because we were overestimating A Sign. That’s barely competitive with Unfinished Business.)

If I’ve made any serious errors, of course, definitely let me know.

[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)]Sackville’s right, I now see where my calculations were off… Unfortunate, I did like my expedition grinds.[/color]

[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)]Mind you I also liked writing short stories in my spare time, but that wasn’t really for profit. It always disappointed me that every time I went to write the next part of my series of novels, I found I had lost/destroyed all my notes from the previous one…[/color]

[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)]Though I suspect, concerning Shrine of the DBH, the epA may get bumped if you’re also exchanging your Collection of Curiosities with the Tomb Colonists; not that that will likely bump it up by much more.[/color]

I valued Collections of Curiosities at 62.5 echoes, actually, and even discounted the action required to exchange them for maps.

I feel like either AotB (and possibly Spirifage) are too good, or that Expeditions (and possibly FW) should get some love. As is, Expeditions and FW have more risk than AotB but less reward. Expeditions even have a higher barrier to entry, too (100% on A Buccaneering Approach requires a massive Watchful 267 compared to Shadowy 217 for AotB. That’s a goat and multiple PoSI items).

There’s a lot of interesting stuff to do, so I don’t really want to just clock in, draw my deck, and spend however many actions I have in Spite… but unless I have a lot of free time to commit to Heists I can’t really recommend not doing that.

I’m still working on my Expedition spreadsheet, but I am planning on sharing my results once I hit 1,000 expeditions recorded. I bet it’ll be about 51.75 after I’m completely finished (I had a similar experience while working on my Soul spreadsheet in which I had 63 souls per action until a string of low rolls dragged it down near the end), but right now I’m sitting at 55.71 echoes per expedition with 521 recorded results.

I’ve been hovering around 61 souls an action with the unfinished business method of getting souls.