Feedback request: time

color=000000 to complete a play session
I am not sure what a play session counts as. Like, [color=000000]I consider a session to be &quotcomplete an objective and return to London, or make significant pro[color=000000]gress in doing so.&quot That takes anywhere from [color=000000]1[color=000000]5-20 minutes[color=000000], longer with new content.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

(ii) to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more
[color=000000][color=000000]Previous answer, un[color=000000]less I die for really frustrating[color=000000] reasons. Really frustrating de[color=000000]fined as unending autofires, dying with London like, three inc[color=000000]hes away, etc.
[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
(iii) to ‘complete’ a game, either win or loss
I have &quotwon&quot once, when I took the middle-of[color=000000]-the-road retirement optio[color=000000]n in 1.2. Took about three days of mult[color=000000]iple sessions of pl[color=000000]ay[color=000000], [color=000000]so I’d guess [color=000000]6-8[/color] hours? Dying can take anywhere from 10[color=000000] mi[color=000000]nutes to [color=000000]3 hours.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

(iv) to upgrade significantly
I go[color=000000]t the handsome townhouse [color=000000]all o[color=000000]f once, and have never managed to get more than 1000 echoes to m[color=000000]y name. I am [color=000000]legit[color=000000]imatel[color=000000]y in awe of people who obtain[color=000000]ed dre[color=000000]adn[color=000000]a[/color]ughts[color=000000].[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

(v) to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?
I have never managed to do this.

(vi) to exhaust all the story content (i.e. total time in days or sessions until you stopped seeing any new content out of the current map)
[color=000000]Still haven’t done this. I am limited b[color=000000]y fuel and terror, wh[color=000000]ich is exacerbated[/color][/color][/color] by the rapi[color=000000]d consumption of fuel. I [color=000000]did[color=000000] almost do this in 1.3[color=000000], but [color=000000]no[color=000000]w with 1.4[color=000000], there’s so much more to do.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
[/color]

(i) to complete a play session
About seven captains.

(ii) to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more
I accidentally forgot to keep my map after several days of mapping with many captains lives. I didn’t want to play for a while after that. The thought of remapping the way I do seemed like a massive loss.

(iii) to ‘complete’ a game, either win or loss
I felt I had achieved a significant win when my seventh captain, sailing east until death then shifting one block North or south with the next captain, finally discovered the tomb colonies :D

Took a while, but we got there in the end. Achieved a second goal when I had to start north south exploration becausei couldn’t hit the eastern edge without docking. Great success.
(iv) to upgrade significantly
There are upgrades? :o

(v) to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?
Um, yes.

(vi) to exhaust all the story content
Uh, I’m not sure how much content I’ve seen. Docking is scary because I’m afraid it will eat my coal, thus causing my captain to fall a block or two short from surviving until the edge of the map. That is the worst because then I have to repeat the run just for those last blocks. If I had to guess, a few days or so to see half the map?

Anywhere from half an hour to several hours, really.

Usually completing some major milestone like finishing a story or something, or after a particularly disheartening loss. Dropping to half crew is enough to wear me out really quickly, travelling everywhere at half speed is terrible.

I don’t think I’ve ever actually won in this build, although beating all the major story content is close enough to a win in my book. Losses usually happen more often early on, when terror is hard to manage and you’re at major risk of losing all your crew or fuel. Since the mechanics changed I don’t actually think I’ve ever had hunger be a concern even in the early game though.

The only upgrades I’ve made that really feel significant are bigger ships, which take ages to acquire. Maybe two or three play sessions of doing nothing much more than Port Cecil runs. Engines are so expensive I basically never buy anything stronger than the 500e one and just wait for a Serpentine.

I’ve never done this and I’d probably get burned out fast if I tried. Top-tier guns are easy enough to get, though. Engines are real dang expensive and the bigger ships are even moreso. The Zee-Mansion is expensive but actually kinda worth it.

I still haven’t found any Long-Boxes, so I’ve never even started Station III’s story! The other stuff… well, the Genial Magician’s depends on how fast I can get the Serpent-Image from Venderbight and whether or not I get the Pewter Horsehead from Gaider’s Mourn. It didn’t really take that long, just three or four voyages all in one session I think. The Wistful Deviless’ story is longer, but I tend to do half of it in one long voyage (Travelling between Port Cecil and Mt Palmerston until the Deviless asks for you to take a message for her) and then finish up the rest later, usually the next play session.
edited by Spacemarine9 on 6/7/2014

Because gaining Officers is randomized and doesn’t even fire half the time when I dock in London, unless I luck out I generally have to wait a while to recruit the Genial Magician and thus start his story.

I haven’t found any Long-Boxes either, but I admittedly haven’t spent as much time looking.

[quote=Alexis Kennedy][color=#009900]We’re very interested to know - how long is it taking you folks to do any or all of the following?[/color]
[color=#009900]
[/color]
color=#009900 to complete a play session[/color]
A few hours usually.
color=#009900 to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more[/color]
If I die and end up losing a lot of progress that way, it usually automatically makes me stop playing - gaining money in this game is quite slow and tedious process, especially considering that you have to manage fuel, food and terror all while trying to make money and there are no almost no ways to reduce the consumption of resources (the only exception I found so far is getting tireless mechanic for +5% fuel efficiency). Terror can be mitigated by sailing close to the land or light source, but it’s only possible for north or south routes, other places you gain at least some terror on the way.
color=#009900 to ‘complete’ a game, either win or loss[/color]
Did not win yet, too much time and work required for that.
color=#009900 to upgrade significantly[/color]
The only upgrades that seem feasible for me are ones that either improve fuel efficiency or give a new skill for the fights, thus so far I only upgraded my gun to get a harpoon - makes short work of enemy crew and high damage to beasts. I wish installing better lamps would help mitigate terror accumulation and each new engine would automatically increase fuel efficiency, as otherwise the investment does not pay off.
color=#009900 to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?[/color]
Hiring officers is much more money efficient way of raising stats than getting new pieces of equipment.
color=#009900 to exhaust all the story content (i.e. total time in days or sessions until you stopped seeing any new content out of the current map)[/color]
Did not manage that yet.
[color=#009900]
[/color]
[color=#009900]Don’t feel pressed to get your stop-watches out: I only need broad, hand-wavy answers. ‘Half an hour’ ‘An evening’ ‘a week’ ‘I’ll tell you when I get there!’ [/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]I have a whole bunch of calculations about how long it takes to travel or accrue resource (and a bunch of those numbers are temporary anyway and will change as the map grows), but I’m interested in a wide view on subjective experience, doubling-back, misunderstanding, experimentation - all of which is hard to get to with the kind of playtesting we do at this end.[/color]
[color=#009900]
[/color]
[color=#009900]Thanks folks! As a reward for reading this far, here’s a peek at one of the locations in ‘Amethyst’, which should be coming later this week… http://www.dropmocks.com/mE5kH1[/color]
edited by Alexis on 6/2/2014[/quote]

(Warning, as always, I ramble.)

COMPLETE A PLAY SESSION:
If you mean how long do I play each time, it depends on what I’m doing. If I’ve got a useful location to aim for from the Admiral (say Cecil or Palmerston, somewhere with things on the way/nearby, and interesting stories/shops when you get there) then I’ll generally play until I’ve done that, picking up port reports etc on the way, avoiding beasties (which still tend to kill me more times than not, and the rewards aren’t usually worth the risk/cost of fighting them). Then I’ll head back to London and see where I need to go next. If there’s another good location I’ll keep going :) But invitably I’ll get back to port and the Admiral will send me somewhere useless like Polythreme, which is difficult to get to, high on terror, and has little useful on the way, and I’ll quit because that’s not much fun.

So, usually about half an hour to an hour? Not long I’m afraid. I mean, I’ll generally go and do something else for a while, then come back and do another couple of runs, so it’s not like I don’t want to play, I do enjoy the game, but at the moment it’s only interesting in short bursts.

TO PLAY UNTIL YOU DON’T FEEL LIKE PLAYING:
See above. About half an hour generally, then I get discouraged because I’m not making progress. Also I tend to lose enthusiasm when I sail somewhere and find there’s nothing to do, because of the vagaries of the &quotsomething awaits you&quot mechanic. I get you’re trying to avoid grinding, but making ports randomly LESS interesting because your timing is off doesn’t encourage exploration either.

TO COMPLETE A GAME:
I’ve never managed it yet. I’ve died a few times, less often now, and I’m playing merciful because I finally have a full crew and half decent stats, and the prospect of starting all over again is kind of depressing. Completing the game would mean starting again, so I’m not really aiming for it right now, but at the current rate I can earn echoes it would take a long time. Maybe a week or so? Maybe longer, I mean I still haven’t managed a ship upgrade, currently I don’t see how that would even benefit me, so…?

TO UPGRADE SIGNIFICANTLY:
Define &quotsignificant&quot. I earned most of the echoes for previous weapon upgrades before some of the recent patches that changed trading and pirate bounties, since then the speed I’ve been able to upgrade anything has dropped. I’ve never upgraded my ship, it seems completely unreachable. I honestly don’t get how others seem to manage it. It’s taken hours and hours and hours to get two big guns and the serpentine engine. That looks like the extent of my upgrades for the forseeable future.

TO UPGRADE EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT:
Can you even get equipment for most of the slots? See above. I don’t have a torpedo because it just seems like an echo sink, I have Camius Yard harpoons and cannons, I’m sticking with the serpentine engine because if the bonuses it provides, glim lamps don’t seem to do anything useful right now, likewise the ratsender.

TO EXHAUST ALL CONTENT:
It took me about 3 days? Not sure what that would be in played hours though, as I said, I tend to play in short bursts, but often. There might still be a few random storylets I haven’t seen related to killing the bigger beasties? But I have the chart cleared, have spoken to all the crew, I’ve been to every port and finished the available stories on Palmerston, Hunter’s Keep and Pigmote, and I’ve done the Magician’s story. (Can I just say that the Deviless, the Sisters, Pigmote Isle, and the Magician have been my favourite parts of the game so far? I love the individual stories! They are utterly delightful, and more of this is coming I hope! :D) Of course there might be a few hidden things I’ve missed because the rng has been unkind, but I’m pretty sure I’ve got 90% of it.

I know that my responses seem to be entirely negative. Believe it or not I do actually love an awful lot about the game! The world is marvellous! There’s a good reason I keep coming BACK after I’ve had a break :D Sadly these particular questions highlight some of the more frustrating aspects for me currently. I think the time I play, and the way I play, is going to change a lot once more story content is released, and once there are more to do than fetch and carry for the admiral, or kill things.

Edit: Isn’t that preview just a picture of the Chapel of Lights? headtilt
edited by Inky Petrel on 7/5/2014

[color=000000]quote to complete a play session[/quote]
[color=000000]I play [color=000000]about an hour, or I play for 8 hours or more. There is little inbetween times for me. I feel like I need to put [color=000000]signi[color=000000]fic[color=000000]ant time in sin[color=000000]ce[color=000000] a good circuit (say FL to Venderblight [color=000000]to Wither to Chapel of Lights to M[color=000000]t. Palm[color=000000]ers[color=000000]ton to [color=000000]Port Cecil to [color=000000]Gaider’s Mourn to Mutton Island and to home) takes a[color=000000]round an hour I feel.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
[/color][color=000000][color=000000][quote]/color to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more[/quote]
[color=000000]I hit that after about 12 to 14 hou[color=000000]rs of straight grinding in the Gold Edition.[/color][/color]

[/color][color=000000][color=000000][quote]/color to ‘complete’ a game, either win or los[color=000000]s[/color][/color][color=000000][color=000000][color=000000][/quote]
[color=000000]Really depends. You can retire[color=000000] to a Townhouse in just a few hours [color=000000]if you put your mind to it. T[color=000000]o retire to a mansion [color=000000]I’d [color=000000]think 30 to 40 hours skippi[color=000000]ng a new ship, or lots of gear. Zong of [color=000000]the Zee, who knows, the re[color=000000]qs on that are ridiculous (by int[color=000000]enti[color=000000]on I assume.) I[color=000000]'ve seen all the items[color=000000] necessar[color=000000]y for it, but [color=000000]grinding up 77[color=000000] [color=000000]Secrets and what not would not be [color=000000]quick.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
[/color][/color]
[/color][color=000000][color=000000][quote]/color to upgrade significantly[/color][color=000000][color=000000][/quote]
[color=000000]&quotSignificant upgr[color=000000]ades&quot are ship upgrades, and [color=000000]cost about 4k total to buy [color=000000]the b[color=000000]est guns, a good engine and an overpriced lamp. Upgrading to a new ship is a [color=000000]whole other kettle of worms though. I wi[color=000000]ll probably play[color=000000] [color=000000]another additional 20 hou[color=000000]rs to grind up the [color=000000]cash[color=000000] for the [color=000000]frigate I want. Maybe a touch less, with luck.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

[/color][/color][color=000000][color=000000][quote]/color to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?[/color][color=000000][color=000000][/quote]
[color=000000]If you’re counting ships, on the currently available content and trading, I’d [color=000000]ball pa[color=000000]rk this at 80 to 100 ho[color=000000]urs.[/color][/color][/color][/color]

[/color][/color][color=000000][color=000000][quote]/color to exhaust all the story content (i.e. total time in days or sessions until you stopped seeing any new content out of the current map)[/color][color=000000][/quote]

[color=000000]Haven’t hit this point yet. Partially because I play it s[color=000000]low and safe[color=000000], unti[color=000000]l I’m ready to go on an exploration[color=000000] spree. But I felt like after 25 o[color=000000]r 30 hours in the gold build, I had [color=000000]essentially tapped out everything except th[color=000000]e rare[color=000000]st or port-specific storylets.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]
edited by Nenjin on 7/5/2014

Oh, meant to say re: content, I still haven’t found a long box. So I haven’t done Station III yet. scampers away again

Guys, this thread is about a month old… Just thought I’d point that out. The need for feedback on this might have changed since then.
edited by Nehelennia on 7/5/2014

…whoops. facepalm I always forget to check timestamps.

I’m sure it will still be valuable to get feedback. There are a lot of new players with the Early Access and Steam release. Also there have been a lot of changes since the game has been in Beta and there will be a lot more before it is finished.

ETA - For example I have been playing from the first Beta release and am still learning new things. I’ve started a fresh captain with each new version and the pacing is very different, in some ways better, in some I’m not so sure but I trust that Alexis and the Failbetter team have a better idea of where the game is going and how each change will affect new content in the future. One thing I do know is that they listen to.what the players have to say.
edited by reveurciel on 7/5/2014

[quote=Nehelennia]Guys, this thread is about a month old… Just thought I’d point that out. The need for feedback on this might have changed since then.
edited by Nehelennia on 7/5/2014[/quote]

Which is why I’m giving the feedback [i]as it stands now.

Because I think questions on how long it takes to do X in this game are going to need to be repeatedly reevaluated.
[/i]
edited by Nenjin on 7/5/2014

(i) to complete a play session
(ii) to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more
(iii) to ‘complete’ a game, either win or loss
(iv) to upgrade significantly
(v) to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?
(vi) to exhaust all the story content (i.e. total time in days or sessions until you stopped seeing any new content out of the current map)

i. It depends on what you mean by a play session. I generally play in two hour bursts.
ii. When I die from terror, or when I’m bored doing Venderbright runs.
iii. I’ve never come close to winning.
iv. It takes me about four or five hours to feel like I’ve had substantial upgrades.
v. I haven’t even come close.
vi. I haven’t even come close.

Really I’m just wasting a lot of time grinding Venderbright rather than exploring, so my frustration is more of a factor than content limitations. Part of this was due to the fact that my temperature gauge doesn’t / didn’t change, but my engine overheated, so I was never sure if it was a one time event or something I did and have kept it at a speed of one for most of the game.
edited by internet on 7/6/2014

(i) to complete a play session
About 2-3 hours, I guess, on weekends, and about 1 on weekdays.

(ii) to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more
Same. Interestingly, since I ACTUALLY upgraded versions (thanks Alexis + support), I’ve died so much less, so I’ve been playing the same character for about two weeks. Exciting!

(iii) to ‘complete’ a game, either win or loss
Usually 3-4 hours on average. In terms of victory: in the early early beta I basically cheated and cynically farmed Scintallack/Was a total jerk at Hunters Keep/ kept getting Judgement’s Eggs because of a bug (well, I thought it was a feature) in the “Something has changed,” constantly to win the “Wealth” victory. This was back when there was no incentive not to reuse saves. I justified this because (this sounds so dorky) the way I tied this to my main FL character was by role playing the early beta character, “Madam”, as a ruthless former urchin who is tangentially related to Moriarty. And then they team up to sponsor future captains, as an extension of their nefarious business interests. Usually it takes about 2-3 hours to die. In fairness, I am getting MUCH better. And I can honestly say I’ve learned something after each death.

(iv) to upgrade significantly
About 5-6 hours. The serpentine quest can either go super fast or take FOREVER, if you don’t know where you’re headed, but the Hunters Keep stuff + the Blind Bruiser missions/Admiral Missions can get you to 1-3 thousand echoes pretty reasonably fast, and that will buy you some decent enough weapons and crew.

(v) to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?
I’ve been playing on my new character, “Captain,” for about 20-25 hours. I’ve upgraded weapons all the way, have all Officers but the 75 nightmare/The Palmerston one, and am currently killing Pirates over and over so I can get a Frigate/ that Judgement Resonator. I don’t think I’ll grind up to dreadnought; given the current speed (playing it safe because I’ve had this character so long) it would sap the fun out of it. I’d ballpark Frigate 30-40 hours, Dreadnought 40-50.

(vi) to exhaust all the story content (i.e. total time in days or sessions until you stopped seeing any new content out of the current map)
So, I know of most of the content now. I saw all the Devils stuff (so far) at Palmerston in my last life, and this time did Serpentine, Pigmote, poked around in Khan’s Heart, did Hunters’ Keep, have Admiral’s favor at like 25. Thing is, I couldn’t do it all in one play through. Across all sessions, maybe 30-35 hours. It would take less time now that I know what I’m looking for/ won’t get rocked by a Lorn-Fluke and have to turn back. At the current point, I could go back and finish the Palmerston stuff, but its not super urgent. The only “problem” I have is that knowing parts of the map are shut off means I don’t go poking about looking for fragments. Which means now I have all the islands so far, it leaves very little incentive not to be conservative and stay clear of anywhere too far North or East. Still, I expect as the Chelonate/Officer Missions/ more of the Khanate opens up I’ll be fine.

color=rgb(0, 153, 0) to complete a play session[/color]
About 2-3 hoursish.
color=rgb(0, 153, 0) to play until you don’t feel like you want to play any more[/color]
[color=#009900]As above.[/color]

color=rgb(0, 153, 0) to ‘complete’ a game, either win or loss[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]To lose? Well, if I was unlucky it could be as low as 15 minutes. Sailing south of London has a particularly speedy drop-off into rediculous danger due to Unfinished and Khanate vessels. North or east are relatively ‘fair’, with a gradient from steam-pinnaces and bats into Lifebergs and sturdy pirate vessels. [/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]To win? HA! I’ve never come close. I’ve lost one run after about 7 hours to the aforementioned Khanate, and am now about 10ish into my second. I have had the opportunity to buy a Townhouse, at which point I could have retired unobtrusively, but at the time I passed over it in favor of more essential things- food, fuel, officers. [/color]

color=rgb(0, 153, 0) to upgrade significantly[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]I don’t feel that I’ve ever made a significant upgrade to my ship or my stats. I’m doing better, but mostly because I understand the dangers of the Zee more, rather than because my ship is faster or my chances on cards are better. I do have a full crew of officers now, including the Poisonnier and Magician, but I’ve never purchased any equipment for my ship.[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]At about 10 hours on my second playthrough I’m almost at the end of the Genial Magician’s storyline. Hopefully that means I’ll have a Serpentine soon.[/color]

color=rgb(0, 153, 0) to upgrade every piece of equipment all the way?[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]I’ve got 14 hours logged so far and haven’t touched my starting equipment. I’m just starting to consider upgrades now.[/color]

color=rgb(0, 153, 0) to exhaust all the story content (i.e. total time in days or sessions until you stopped seeing any new content out of the current map)[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]
[/color]I haven’t yet.

[li]