Fallen Cities (A Great Many Spoilers)

I think there may be more cities to come, at least, in terms of story (though probably not gameplay). I got a rare success on ‘The Correspondence Savages Your Dreams’ opportunity. This is what it said:

“[color=rgb(204, 204, 204)]When you write it down, it looks like every scribbled diary of every madman to pick up a pen. But still, there’s something here. Something about a journey coming to a close. [/color][color=rgb(204, 204, 204)]Seven marks along the way. Five are past.[/color]

I can’t help but wonder. Is there some connection between the cities and that number?
Or the cities and Mr Eaten?
edited by ladymadsci on 3/3/2012

[quote=ladymadsci]I think there may be more cities to come, at least, in terms of story (though probably not gameplay). I got a rare success on ‘The Correspondence Savages Your Dreams’ opportunity. This is what it said:

“[color=rgb(204, 204, 204)]When you write it down, it looks like every scribbled diary of every madman to pick up a pen. But still, there’s something here. Something about a journey coming to a close. [/color][color=rgb(204, 204, 204)]Seven marks along the way. Five are past.[/color]

I can’t help but wonder. Is there some connection between the cities and that number?
Or the cities and Mr Eaten?[/quote]
This is not the only place where this is established. The Flute Street content implies as much in two places, if I remember correctly. I can’t go further into detail, obviously.

I think that one of the Theosophistical mediums writes about that too. The idea that this is City 5/7 seems to be fairly well seeded.

hannah mckay’s brilliant observation has given me the piece of a puzzle I needed to push my own pet idea from “this city keeps showing up on my searches” to “full-blown conspiracy theory” level. If you enjoy that sort of thing, stay with me for a fine tale of cross-cultural historical myths dredged from wikis, stirred together without regard to consistency, and seasoned with my personal blend of wild speculation.

Tyre

I’ll start off with the “incidentals” but the most intriguing aspect is at the end.

Tyre is an acient Phoenician city dating back to 2,700 BCE or more (though the Phoenicians were Caananites then.) It spent over a thousand years as one of the most powerful cities of the Phoenicians, one of the most powerful groups of its time. There is much history there; they are nearly single-handedly responsible for the Bronze age. It was Tyrian ships that discovered and brought Tin from the Brittish Isles; and they maintained a ruthless stranglehold on that route for hundreds of years. Our interest in it starts later though; during it’s second rise to greatness, sometime in the 800 BCE range.

One thing to note is that some of the reasons for suggesting Jerusalem as the first city actually apply better to Tyre. First city coins, for insance - it was in Tyrian shekels that Judas was paid. Tyrian coins which, by the way, looked like this:


That “could” be a cedar. It isn’t, it’s actually an olive tree base on the founding myth of Tyre; but it looks remarkably like the first city coins. Cedar trees, by the way, are another Tyre tie-in to Jerusalem. The famous temple of Jerusalem, you see, was built by Tyrian laborers (renown for their skill), using cedars shipped from Tyre, and built to a plan identical to a famous Tyrian temple. This was under the rule of it’s God-king Hiram I, good friend to David and his son Solomon, and about the only self-identified God-king that the Bible mentions in a good light.

This brings up two more interesting facts of Tyre: it’s government, where the king was kept in check by a ruling body of merchants (sound familiar fallen Londoners?) And those merchants were so successful they are listed in the Bible as well. You can see that here; it contains what you’d expect. Lots of mentions of goods like Iron, Stones, cloth, ivory, Bronze, etc. It’s not a one-to-one correlation with the Masters, but… worth looking at.

While we are mentioning religion, here’s some interesting bits about Tyre’s. The famous temple isn’t “the temple of the eye” unfortunately; it’s a temple to Melqart (with a dozen alternate spellings), who was something of a trinity. He was one aspect of Baal, another aspect of which was Baal’s consort and also Melqart’s consort, Astarte. Melqart represented the sun and moon, the seas, and the underworld, and Astarte later became intermingled with Aphrodite by the Greeks. If you want an underworld with “moonish light” cast by disturbing giant sea-creature looking things (see the lightfingers ambition) and driven by love, you could hardly do better for a deity than Melqart and his consort/aspect Astarte.

Two more little tidbits before I move on to the most promising stuff. Tyrian sailors were some of the best in the world, and Tyrian lore refers to the Pillars of Melqart (later the Pillars of Hercules) - supposedly the passage through the straights of Gibraltar. It’s a possible tie-in to the pillars of the underzee as well. Tyre was also known for its bronze and its brass, which is important because of the manager of the Royal Bethlehem’s buttons… which takes us to the exciting parts.

Okay, the good bits:

Following the 900 BCE’s, Tyre was in something of a slump. Until about 878 BCE, they were suffering a mess of revolutions and regicides. This came to an end with the ascension of Eth-baal (Ithobaal), the first priest-king of Tyre. He used his position as religious leader to put an end to the king-killing. Under him began a new golden era of Tyre. Now, I haven’t been able to find out if the rest of his bloodline ruled as priest-kings as well, but it seems likely. He had many interesting descendents, such as Jezebel (yes, that Jezebel) but the most interesting of which for our purposes are Pygmalion and Dido.

Dido became queen, and her husband king - which made Pygmalion quite jealous, according to legend. He killed Dido’s husband and took the throne in 831 BCE; Dido scurried off and founded Carthage. Now, this doesn’t have any special ties to Echo Bazaar’s storyline, except for this striking coincidence: There is another famous Pygmalion. This other Pygmalion was also a king, though the Greeks who wrote about him (from secondary sources) had him pegged as a king of Cyprus. However Cyprus, at the time of Tyre’s Pygmalion and Dido, was partially ruled by Tyre - so it is possible that these two Pygmalions are one and the same.

If so, this is fascinating, because what this other Pygmalion is known for is loving a statue so much that Aphrodite (the Greek interpretation of Astarte, remember) brought the statue to life, and they lived together and had children. This is the interesting tie-in with hannah-mckay’s observation that the manager of the Royal Bethlehem’s love may be related to the Clay Men. If Tyre was stolen in the time of Pygmalion, and the two Pygmalions are the one and the same, the Manager could be Pygmalion, in love with his statue (or his statue’s children) still to this day - the descendents of which (in one sense or another) are the clay men.

It’s not a perfect theory - 800ish BCE is still 100 years or so too soon for the invention of proper coinage. There is also the matter of the second city issues: the age of the vake, and the tearing down of the old gods. The first could be explained if the vake didn’t always live in the 'neath; the second by Rome. The Ceasers often raised themselves up as Gods; after tearing down the old order. It would make for a more consistent timeline if this is the case - 800ish years of 1st city, 1,000 ish years for the second city (judged “too long” by certain masters) and 500ish for the cities afterwards.

Frankly, because of these issues, I still feel like I’m missing something though; but also that there is something useful here.

Well, there you have it. Other than the fact that it’s all plainly the ramblings of a lunatic, it holds together as well as the other theories, at least…

This might be a little off topic, but I was speculating about the nature of the Bazaar’s ‘journey’ a little while ago, and something just occured to me.
Is it possible that the cities the Bazaar has been inhabiting start out further south, and have been working their way north? Or perhaps, more specifically, NORTH?
It would have interesting implications, if it happened to be accurate.

[quote=Lewis Brown]This might be a little off topic, but I was speculating about the nature of the Bazaar’s ‘journey’ a little while ago, and something just occured to me.
Is it possible that the cities the Bazaar has been inhabiting start out further south, and have been working their way north? Or perhaps, more specifically, NORTH?
It would have interesting implications, if it happened to be accurate.[/quote]

I like this theory, but I tried marking the possible cities on a map and they’re actually moving south for the first three cities, Middle East -> Egypt -> Central America. Unless the obsession with NORTH occured in the Third City? Because from Central America to Mongolia and London the cities do journey northwards.

For what it’s worth, Tyre is the first proposal for the First City that I’ve had a positive reaction to. It explains a great many mysteries, it was an important city, much like London was in the Victorian era, and it contains a love story that would require extraordinary intervention.

Ok - possibly this has already popped out, but I stumbled upon it today and I can remember having seen it before, so I’m signalling it anyway: in one of the sidebars about the Correspondence, there was a mention of a letter by the Pope - the one without which Rome would have been the Fourth City. I wanted to Tweet it and save it on the Journal, but I accidentally clicked “Tell me another thing” instead (>:(). So - is that the only mention of this letter? Are there any other accounts?

Regarding the obsession with North, I just figured that Mr Sacks had set his sights – and is dragging the other Masters along with him – on destroying the evil that is Santa Claus.

What?

On a more serious note, I felt that “North” referred less to physical locations on the Earth’s surface, and more to a north location somewhere in the underground depths that we’re exploring – something that presumably will tie into the end of the game, or perhaps even sooner.

I also like the idea of Tyre for the First City. Perhaps the Masters have managed to fudge accounts and archaelogical evidence on the Surface, which explains why the dates for coinage don’t quite work out?

The best explanation of this in my opinion was given by Дмитрий Кеворков a few pages back in this thread. He said that the Pope wrote a letter to the Khan of the Mongols, essentially asking them not to sack Rome. This would imply that it was the Mongols, not Rome, who was the most influential power of that time. It’s widely believed that the fourth city is Mongolian, and it may be as a result of this letter - given the Bazaar’s tendency to collect the most powerful city of the age.

[quote=MNess]On a more serious note, I felt that “North” referred less to physical locations on the Earth’s surface, and more to a north location somewhere in the underground depths that we’re exploring – something that presumably will tie into the end of the game, or perhaps even sooner.
[/quote]

Given that “NORTH” is one of the destinations (currently unreachable) on the Underzee, I’d have to agree with this.

The new storylette, Polythreme Ho!, mentions the Eye Temples as a site to see there… this combined with the capering relicker’s remarks about an eye temple lends some more credibility to the idea that Polythreme is the remnants of the 1st city. Start socking up those provisions, there’s mysteries to unearth! (Perhaps unearth is not the correct turn of phrase for visiting the homeland of the Clay Men.)

For a while, I entertained a notion that the Fourth city might be Troy, but then I acquired a bottle of Fourth City Airag and that steered my thinking away from the Mediterranean and towards the East. This artefact does point towards Mongolia, does it not?

I was trading Muscaria Brandy for Brass rings for the first time, and i failed. While i was dismayed that i didn’t get anything extra, the description was very enlightening on the possible location for the next Fallen city: Now, I’ve heard that when the time comes for the gates to open and the host to head Eastwards, those wearing these rings may be spared the fire. So, if you still care for anyone, you may wish to make gifts of them.’
edited by Jack Blackstone on 3/16/2012
edited by Jack Blackstone on 3/16/2012

I do believe that the Fourth City is most definitely Xanadu. Let us adjourn to the library and help ourselves to a certain tome written by an laudanum-addled poet:

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree :
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.

But oh ! that deep romantic chasm which slanted
Down the green hill athwart a cedarn cover!
A savage place! as holy and enchanted
As e’er beneath a waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her demon-lover!


Not being an Intimate of Devils, I will not sully my sterling reputation by commenting on that last passage or quoting the ramblings of this honey-mazed individual any further, but you may find that they are not entirely unlike the visions that haunt our selves in the small hours of the morning, not to mention that “sunless sea” he mentions sounds awfully familiar.

As I mentioned a little bit earlier, I found myself in possession of a peculiar bottle the other day which is believed to contain Fourth City Airag. The airag, being fermented horse milk, is definitely an acquired taste, but the geographical location of Xanadu does fall within the borders of one sprawling Mongol Empire where the recipe for it originated; the label also mentiones a Khan of Dreams, who may or may not be the Khan mentioned in the poem. Erecting statues of warrior-kings, similar to the ones we see in the Forgotten Quarter, was also quite typical for that region, as well as decorating temples with jade.

P. S. An acquaintance of mine is correcting me, saying that “cedarn cover” is a known sign of the First City. This is unfortunate, but does not diminish my belief that I am finally getting somewhere with my research!

P. P. S. Would it be improper to bring up the subject of the Fidgeting Writer in this discussion? It does appear that his misfortunes are related to the Third City and its inhabitants.
edited by Lawrence Growe on 3/16/2012

The problem with the Second City is that it is said to have fallen 3000 years ago, which massively predates coins. Either the origin of the coins is incorrect, or the age of the Second city is incorrect.
Perhaps the coins are from somewhere else entirely. Not even one of the cities.

My completely unproven and without a shred of evidence theory is that the Masters, upon seeing the coins of the First City, found the very thought of using money instead of Echoes so infuriating that they stole every coin and even the memory of coins from the Surface, forcing poor humanity to rediscover money all over again.

Which is ridiculous, considering the Echoes our characters use are clearly banknotes, albeit based on a wild word standard instead of gold.
edited by Patrick Reding on 3/17/2012

[quote=Jack Blackstone]I was trading Muscaria Brandy for Brass rings for the first time, and i failed. While i was dismayed that i didn’t get anything extra, the description was very enlightening on the possible location for the next Fallen city: Now, I’ve heard that when the time comes for the gates to open and the host to head Eastwards, those wearing these rings may be spared the fire. So, if you still care for anyone, you may wish to make gifts of them.’
edited by Jack Blackstone on 3/16/2012
edited by Jack Blackstone on 3/16/2012[/quote]

I believe the demon means Hell’s gate and infernal host, not the Bazaar. Some of us know that another war with these demons is imminent, now we know what they plan.

You will find support for your theory across the Sea of Voices, in Polythreme. (Spoilers, naturally.)
http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/echo_theodor?fromEchoId=1795120

http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/echo_theodor?fromEchoId=1794550

I draw your attention particularly to [color=#ffffff]THE KING WITH THE HUNDRED HEARTS BECAME SO BECAUSE OF THE LOVE OF ANOTHER and the scratchy script that you’ve only seen before on the back of a silver coin, which speaks of unrequited love, eternal and true, from across a black sea.[/color]

You will find support for your theory across the Sea of Voices, in Polythreme. (Spoilers, naturally.)[/quote]

I am beginning to wonder if the Manager is some version of [color=#ffffff]Pygmalion[/color]. I don’t have the specific texts to hand at the moment, but someone in Polythreme ([color=#ffffff]the Masked Man[/color]?) mentions that the whole city [color=#ffffff]originally began as one statue[/color]. Plus we discover that the Clay Men are [color=#ffffff]‘birthed’ from the walls[/color], and I am beginning to get the impression that they are somehow all [color=#ffffff]aspects or fragments of the King of a Hundred Hearts[/color]… problem is, [color=#ffffff]Pygmalion[/color] is I believe far too late in ‘history’ for the timescales we’re discussing here for the city. Anyone know of any similar personages? Perhaps out of [color=#ffffff]Jewish[/color] legend (thinking of [color=#ffffff]golems[/color] here)?