I’m really enjoying this! I’ve played it with all my characters and I think it’s really fun! I appreciate the new abandonment option that came out today too, though I haven’t had to use it yet.
I like the unlimited draw combined with a limited hand, like how happens at zee. It made zee voyages much less annoying, and it seems like this Flash Lay will also be lots of fun.
This is a fun way to get persuasive up, since I really hate writing stories.
Just played through the spirifer option today – well, partly yesterday and mostly today, so I noticed the popping up of the exit storylet and the "experimental content" notice, which were great.
Based on a single playthrough of the lower-stat option with base stats of Watchful 120, Shadowy 86, Persuasive 106… I have to agree with the people calling for multi-progress-level rewards and a less random exit option. I ended up with Progress 137 or so before I could get out, and I felt distinctly disappointed that all that extra progress wasn’t going anywhere. A 50 / 100 / 150 reward tree, perhaps with progressively more detailed story descriptions, would go a long way to balancing different players’ priorities, I think. I’m not the kind of person who worries heavily about optimizing action payout (I’m just here for the story), so the experience was less one of "why am I wasting actions" and more that at some point I stopped reading the actual text and just started clicking through stuff, which always scares me a little (I’ve lost the chance to read large chunks of text that way).
I personally didn’t mind the "Time Draws Near" / "A Confessional Evening" duplication because it allowed me to get more Up Your Sleeve, but I can see how that would be annoying for people with different approaches. My menaces also never got high enough to be a problem; reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try the high-level option even when my stats hit the minimum suggested level!
edited by LNRothwood on 12/22/2015
It’s been great fun and the level of difficulty makes it pretty fun - perhaps we could choose slightly different tiers of risk (like in Flint Part II) where the cards and storylets are exactly the same but the consequences are more severe with higher-risk Flash Lays (e.g. sharper increases to menaces/some loss of attributes)?[li]
After playing 5 or 6 Flash Lays (always at the sterner difficulty), I can say it’s a ton of fun, and I feel that the difficulty is right where it needs to be. With luck (both card-wise and check-wise), it can be a competitive cash grind, but it can still threaten failure.
That said, there were a couple minor issues. First being that leftover cards in a flash lay carry over to the next one’s hand, and second that completing a flash lay can refill your normal opportunity deck! (Draw 10 cards, then do a flash lay in under 40 actions, 10 cards again!)
The only mechanical thing I’d mention is how… well, useless most of the Opening cards seem to be, compared to how challenging they are to activate. An Informant can give me 7 progress… at the risk of giving me suspicion and/or losing the opening. And that requires either a coin-toss on a Mysterious Stranger, or going into an autofire card with a tough challenge and a bunch of saved-up Up Your Sleeve. I’ve found it’s almost always better to just kick the obstacle out of your deck.
Managed to finish the easier Flash Lay today in 17 actions, which I believe is the minimum (including the actions needed to start and finish.) That’s around 1.12 EPA for the Spirifer and 2.94 EPA for the Auditor – but you’d have to be very lucky to finish the Auditor in 17 actions, just due to the very difficult skill checks that give 7 Progress. If I’m not mistaken, I think the options that give Up Your Sleeve and then cash it in for 25 progress are easier – which makes mixing those in a little more attractive.
The Opening cards, however, continue to be perplexingly bad… since they cost 8 Up Your Sleeve (4 actions minimum) to add to your deck and don’t help that much. I mean – those might be relevant if you were playing this deck for twice or three times as long, or if the frequency were higher? But at this frequency and given how long it takes to get them, they need a boost.
It’s fun to do once or twice, but I would not really repeat it as a grind. It’s just too complex for no added benefit. PPA is very hard to calculate, but I don’t think it’s that good. And the law of big numbers says you would have to do the grind a lot to have a stable PPA, but one run took me over 30 actions, which means people without subscription won’t be able to complete even one iteration before having to take a break.
I do think this approach works nice in places like Flint, where it’s a one time thing. But after you run out of new cards there no sense of novelty anymore, so no reason to do this over a non-deck based activity.
If you want to gamble there is always Fidgeting Writer for that.
Balance wise. There are two exit cards in the deck for some reason. I drew them a lot, subsequently I had over 12 Sleeve at all times but no enough cards to convert Sleeve into progress.
Flash Lays are definitely more gamble than grind, and I wouldn’t expect those who can’t stomach gambles to play it more than once – but the game does need more varieties of gamble than just the basic “push your luck” Fidgeting Writer, plus it’s nice that Flash Lays are readily accessible and level-adjustable, unlike say, Polythreme.
Heists are an interesting midpoint between gamble and grind, come to think of it.
If you get good at doing the Flash Lay, you can definitely do it in ~20-22 actions. Factoring in the use of second chances for the really hard challenges, and I’m guessing you could eke an average of 1.9 EPA from this activity with a sound strategy. That’s one reason to do it; the other are that it might be a faster source than some of the rewards than other methods (I haven’t checked yet, but it’s obviously true of Queer Souls, at least).
But yeah, I think the biggest balance problems is that there’s something off about the frequency of the exit cards. One of them seems to have the same frequency throughout, and the other (the “real one” I think) starts getting more frequent about 75 progress or so. But I’m not totally sure. Trying to keep one in hand late in the game while also avoiding every 3-progress choice is part of the strategic fun; another good note is that it’s actually GOOD to stick more Obstacles in your deck early on, especially if you’ve gathered at least a bit of Sleeve. You have to think about managing your Sleeve just as much as your rate of Progress, which is a nice bit of design.
That’s only because you can still bring your lodging size in there.
That sounds like I am either way too unlucky, or you have been way too lucky.
It will almost definitely be the best source of the tier 4/5 rewards once all upconverts consume favours.
[quote=xKiv][quote=metasynthie]
If you get good at doing the Flash Lay, you can definitely do it in ~20-22 actions.
[/quote]
That sounds like I am either way too unlucky, or you have been way too lucky.
[/quote]
Well, removing obstacles rather than trying to convert them used five Up Your Sleeve to gain 25 Progress. With luck, you can get 50 progress with only about six actions, plus removed obstacles. The rest just becomes skill checks.
Not sure how you can get good at this. Train your luck at drawing cards?
Correct me if I am wrong but Second Chances should not improve EPA. First of all grinding them would cost actions too. And second a 40% chances to fail and waste an action is still a 40% chance to fail and waste an action, even if you can retry.
Heists are more interesting because yes, you can store more cards in your hand. Also you need to prepare for them, so it feels more like effort and slightly less like luck.
Also Heists are maybe the best way to grind MW.
Went through the lower level challenge–I too was in between both of them but knew the higher would only bring tears. Somewhat interesting but in the end it feels like grinding–the choices are pretty small and all based on your highest stats.
[quote=Fhoenix]Not sure how you can get good at this. Train your luck at drawing cards?
Correct me if I am wrong but Second Chances should not improve EPA. First of all grinding them would cost actions too. And second a 40% chances to fail and waste an action is still a 40% chance to fail and waste an action, even if you can retry.[/quote]
Being better at gambling involves understanding and managing statistical likelihoods – in this case, knowing which cards to play or hold depending on where you are in terms of Progress, Up Your Sleeve, and actions spent. Can you "afford" another Obstacle or a 3-progress action, should you use a Second Chance, etc. No, Second Chances don’t improve your EPA if you have to grind them, even if you get them from sources with above 0 epa. When I factored those in, it lowered the EPA from close to 3 to below 2. But using a second chance on a 60% chance turns it into a 84% chance at no extra action cost. It’s pretty important to understand at least that much math if you’re going to optimize with them factored in, since they could be vital in a clinch.
The other way to get better at gambling is to improve your psychological fortitude for loss that’s out of your control – to get better at not going Tilt, as they say in some games. It’s a mental skill. Good gambling games require a lot of statistical strategy, apprehending a complex situation and not freaking out. It’s unpredictable, but I don’t have much respect for the blase, conventional-wisdom strategists’ attitude that more luck = less interesting. I used to think that way, but I tried to educate myself on the subject.
I am probably over-optimistic about the 20-22 actions but if I managed a really lucky 17-action run it’s worth shooting for as a goal! The only cards you really want to try and avoid are ones that can only give you 3 progress.
//at no extra action cost
Is this a new thing? Because before second chances costed an action (the candle just would not update until page refresh)
[quote=Fhoenix]//at no extra action cost
Is this a new thing? Because before second chances costed an action (the candle just would not update until page refresh)[/quote]
If you don’t "Perhaps Not" out, it doesn’t cost actions if you fail and attempt the action again. I believe this was changed with the recent Second Chance revamp.
I like this new sort of minigame. It let’s me do something with my 117 shadowy other than run the loop at Wilmot’s End.
I do hope that other minigames of this variety may pop up, i loved the pickpocket’s promenade and getting polite invitations because they just have a stronger feel of "being there" than other stories.
My thoughts are as follows:
I’ll echo what some others are saying and note that I like that there are more difficult checks in this content for stat-maxed players; it gives me a good excuse to use second chances again, which in turn motivates me to use social actions more.
That said, the variability might be too high. As it is, if I draw the card that allows you to finish the lay, I almost always bank it forever regardless of where I am progress-wise, because if I use it I might not see it for dozens of actions. Similarly, even with two obstacles in the deck, it can take a surprisingly long time to draw the associated cards, which also contributes to the variability in action cost. When an already action heavy task has a range of 10+ actions over which it might be expected to end, I can see why some people prefer to stay away.
I quite like it mechanically - I did the 50 stat one, the Spirifer. I feel that the cards are written pretty generically, though - it would be nice to have some of them written specifically for the Spirifer (or other) con, or at least replace “your mark” with the title of the mark. More immersive that way. Currently, only the last card seems to matter for the story.
Having a few cards that are specific to each target mechanically, perhaps playing on connections, also seems obvious.
I quite like the focus on the substats (ruthless, steadfast, etc.) - those don’t get enough play.
One big issue with the idea of ‘avoiding’ certain cards is that, because your hand carries over from one Flash Lay to the next, you’ll have to deal with it at some point. So, if you’re trying to optimize over several runs, you can only really choose one card to ignore long-term.
There may be a bug here. In the Spirifer version, with the card ?The Perils of Enthusiasm," the “Beg your mark to fetch a Constable” option says it cannot be played if one has “An importunate Constable.” I have not, but the option thinks I do, so I cannot play it.