Oh, what a great item storylet!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/J.%20Ward%20Dunn?fromEchoId=14321603
[quote=Catherine Raymond][quote=Jolanda Swan]Ugh, it is not even the awful Liberation thing that gets me, it is not as if he can pull it off anyway, given his character…
It is that his is so bloody annoying. So. Bloody. Annoying.[/quote]
He is annoying, and that reassures me in a way. Because it means that he won’t sweet talk anyone and everyone to get their vote, the way Her Royal Highness and the Amanuensis clearly will. It’s a kind of integrity, albeit a bizarre one.
Sigh. I still mourn the Implacable Detective–probably the best candidate London has had–and you know what happened to her campaign. :-([/quote]
I hoped she would return as I undoubtedly support her. I lean towards the Contrarian’s discussion but I still haven’t chosen him. He doesn’t seem too reliable, does he? Not to mention he was connected to revolutionaries, something I am absolutely against.
But then with Hell and the wife of Feducci it doesn’t seem much of a choice.
The Contrarian is a revolutionary indeed, but he seems to oppose the Liberation of Night. I assume he will try to lessen the influence of the Masters by making the Constables less corrupt, more independent. If this is the way he choses to spend his year in office great - we can all benefit from that.
The Contrarian’s deep game, if elected Mayor, seems to be:
weaken the Constabulary to strengthen the Revolutionaries.
Still, he’s better than the alternatives and he may not be able to pull off his plan in any event.
Huh, I got the impression that he wants them independent, to weaken the Masters. Bad for the Masters but still good for the populace.
Essentially, the Contrarian does not appear to actively work towards the Liberation, but he seems more ambivalent about it than in the past. If anything, his frustrations with the Calendar Council seem more personal than political.
[quote=Azothi]Oppose might be too strong a word. He clearly isn’t acting like February or the Manager of the Royal Bethlehem by actively working towards the Liberation (their attempt to hijack his campaign in 1894 clearly did not go over well with him), but his new campaign manager is January, who is not only supporting the Liberation but aware of its cosmic scale, not to mention that he seemed to reject her campaign donations in 1894 on the basis of her supporting the Liberation.
Essentially, the Contrarian does not appear to actively work towards the Liberation, but he seems more ambivalent about it than in the past. If anything, his frustrations with the Calendar Council seem more personal than political.[/quote]
In the context of his current campaign I am not sure that ambivalence implies stronger support. After all, the Contrarian uses an ambiguous policy stance to gain the support of the Constables, many of whom would find his real goal controversial. Thematic symmetry would suggest that the Contrarian’s more behind-the-scenes backers aren’t really given real guarantees either. After all, this is pretty much a re-run of his first campaign, where being very loud about his intentions has not won him the popular vote and led to a coup ateempt by the more Liberated Revolutionaries. Why would he try to correct the first problem, but not the second?[li]
So, before I drop any more reputation, I wanted to ask - do the text of the Contrarian’s options change with successive plays as they do for Slowcake?
They do not, neither do the princess’s.
Essentially, the Contrarian does not appear to actively work towards the Liberation, but he seems more ambivalent about it than in the past. If anything, his frustrations with the Calendar Council seem more personal than political.[/quote]
[li]
Oh, was the Manager along for the Liberation all this time? I was somehow under the impression his counsel to the Contrarian was actually against supporting the Revolutionaries for fear of it.
I would like to know that too.
Honestly, the more we read about the other candidates, the more I am looking forward to vote for the Contrarian. He is an actual person and not ten devils in a huge trenchcoat! He does not eat people! Or torture them! He has ideals!
[quote=Jolanda Swan]I would like to know that too.
Honestly, the more we read about the other candidates, the more I am looking forward to vote for the Contrarian. He is an actual person and not ten devils in a huge trenchcoat! He does not eat people! Or torture them! He has ideals![/quote]
[li]
Well I look foward to remaining loyal to the people eating torturer. Consider: In a city where the average power player is, in fact, 10 devils in a huge trenchcoat or something worse what good does having a mayor who DOESN’T inspire primal fear do when it comes to realpolitik? If Jenny didn’t get far with an actually coherent set of policies, I can’t imagine Mr. Dither-and-Bicker getting much further on top of the apparent schisms between his revolutionary friends. So yes, I’m voting for a mayor who’s a predator, but a predator who-amazingly enough, I admit-seems to hold SOME nostalgia for London, and therefore some level of standards if not morals. Even if it’s the love of a dragon for it’s hoard, the Princess strikes me as someone who’ll keep the other predators out of our streets. She was VERY cross with a certain admiral for having made no progress against the Dawn Machine after all.
And besides, at least you know where you stand with a predator: On the buffet. You CAN’T know where you stand with a Revolutionary until they blow up your neighbourhood or slit your throat to keep quiet, and they’re swarming like flies around the Contrarian again.
"I hear she’s planning on making a journey soon <…> Her heart’s not in the city. Figuratively speaking."
Doesn’t it sound like a foreshadowing to you?
I know a lot of players are very respectable people. Sure, you have to go through some questionably legal stuff on your way to becoming PoSI, but other than that it’s entirely possible to play as a kind and principled character. You can even become a shepherd of souls, for instance, and almost every ES gives you the option to at least try to make things right.
[quote]
If Jenny didn’t get far with an actually coherent set of policies, I can’t imagine Mr. Dither-and-Bicker getting much further on top of the apparent schisms between his revolutionary friends.[/quote]
From what we’ve seen, he actually has a very sound agenda, and a solid path to carrying it out. Jenny wanted to help the poor, and so she did, what with her school and the charitable work among the dockers and stuff. It didn’t have much lasting impact because it wasn’t setup to do so - it was structured as an ongoing project that would have needed support from successors to continue - which is one of the reasons I didn’t bother voting for her. But during her term, she did accomplish a good amount.
The Contrarian’s plan is very much long-term, in comparison.
[quote]
a predator who-amazingly enough, I admit-seems to hold SOME nostalgia for London[/quote]
The relevant echo has already been posted: my understanding is that she may see London as entertainment; a canvas to attempt to paint in her image, and throw away without a second thought if it doesn’t please her. Similar to Feducci, but on a much more horrible scale.
How many times do I have to remind people that the Contrarian subscribes neither to the Liberation, nor the bomb-flinging and throat-slitting. He has close connections, of course, but he’s shown that he’s learned his lesson from his previous campaign and has adapted marvellously to avoid the same kind of problems reocurring.
I’d also like to question the basic logic here - if you were to have a choice between definitely being in grave danger ("on the buffet"), and maybe being in danger, surely the latter would be preferable?
[quote]
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 6/29/2018
"I hear she’s planning on making a journey soon <…> Her heart’s not in the city. Figuratively speaking."
Doesn’t it sound like a foreshadowing to you?[/quote]
[li]
A foreshadowing made by one of her competitors, a man known for changing his position and his love of circular semantics-both of which I feel comparisons of his current position relative to his last compaign’s show evidence of.
I know a lot of players are very respectable people. Sure, you have to go through some questionably legal stuff on your way to becoming PoSI, but other than that it’s entirely possible to play as a kind and principled character. You can even become a shepherd of souls, for instance, and almost every ES gives you the option to at least try to make things right.
[quote]
If Jenny didn’t get far with an actually coherent set of policies, I can’t imagine Mr. Dither-and-Bicker getting much further on top of the apparent schisms between his revolutionary friends.[/quote]
From what we’ve seen, he actually has a very sound agenda, and a solid path to carrying it out. Jenny wanted to help the poor, and so she did, what with her school and the charitable work among the dockers and stuff. It didn’t have much lasting impact because it wasn’t setup to do so - it was structured as an ongoing project that would have needed support from successors to continue - which is one of the reasons I didn’t bother voting for her. But during her term, she did accomplish a good amount.
The Contrarian’s plan is very much long-term, in comparison.
[quote]
a predator who-amazingly enough, I admit-seems to hold SOME nostalgia for London[/quote]
The relevant echo has already been posted: my understanding is that she may see London as entertainment; a canvas to attempt to paint in her image, and throw away without a second thought if it doesn’t please her. Similar to Feducci, but on a much more horrible scale.
How many times do I have to remind people that the Contrarian subscribes neither to the Liberation, nor the bomb-flinging and throat-slitting. He has close connections, of course, but he’s shown that he’s learned his lesson from his previous campaign and has adapted marvellously to avoid the same kind of problems reocurring.
I’d also like to question the basic logic here - if you were to have a choice between definitely being in grave danger ("on the buffet"), and maybe being in danger, surely the latter would be preferable?
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 6/29/2018[/quote]
Oh I’m absolutely not talking about other player characters at all, if only because bar some days of sick leave, dinners and correspondence for all intents purposes they don’t exist in each other’s storylines. I’m talking about the cannibals in the Foreign Office, the snuffers in the Foreign Office and Presbyterate, Hell, the Masters, the more millitant Flukes, the Dawn Machine and the Fingerkings. In short, the actual movers and shakers of the Neath or those who can bypass them by degrees.
The Contrarian’s plan being long term in comparison is EXACTLY what has me concerned, when a short term, well executed plan has had relatively little impact on the city as a whole. Don’t forget that Jenny’s preferred candidate didn’t make the next election either. And it’s only a coherent plan if you take the Contrarian at his word and as a representative of his backers in goodwill, and given the schism in his last campaign I find it foolish to do so. There are already theories by his own employees that he’s planning a backstab of the Constables by the Revolutionaries, for example, if you echo a certain hat’s description.
I have my own relavent echo (namely, the sincere surprise she exhibits on realising she gives more of a damn about London than Feducci) and as a scene from the horse’s mouth am inclined to be more convinced by it-if only because her other echo shows a distinctly different Princess when she’s on-point with toying with people.
As to whether or not he subscibes to Liberation: Does it TRULY absolve him-or more importantly, vindicate him as a candidate-when, whether he likes it or not, the Liberation sees his ascent as an advancement of their overall agenda? It’s hard to argue they don’t entirely in spite of the infighting, when he still has some measure of support from them plus his backhanded endeavors behind the Constables’ backs. The Princess is open about what she wants. The Contrarian has a very artfully phrased agenda which from a certian point of view can be taken to be his original one refurbished to fit the times and a specific group he wants to subvert, as well as to capture certain demographics.
[li]
And since it seems to have been unclear: The basic logic isn’t about a choice between certain grave danger and uncertain grave danger. I say it again: The Princess is ALREADY in all the power she needs to maintain her lifestyle indefinitely. The basic logic is whether or not a predator would be less likely to attack you if a shiny toy were to be dropped in the far corner of it’s den.
[quote=Hattington]
[li]
And since it seems to have been unclear: The basic logic isn’t about a choice between certain grave danger and uncertain grave danger. I say it again: The Princess is ALREADY in all the power she needs to maintain her lifestyle indefinitely. The basic logic is whether or not a predator would be less likely to attack you if a shiny toy were to be dropped in the far corner of it’s den.[/quote][/li][li]
[/li][li]If she has all the power she needs to maintain her current lifestyle, what does she want to be mayor for? Can someone called a monster even by her own supporters really be trusted to be acting for the good of her subjects? More likely she wants to organize things directly that she otherwise would see blunted, diluted or flat out denied by those she would need to go through trying to handle it indirectly.[/li][li]
[/li][li]As for the bit about a shiny toy… what exactly does this have to do with preferring the Princess over the Contrarian? Are you trying to say that a more merciless, less distractable horror is something you want running things politically? I’ve thrown in for the Contrarian because he isn’t a monster - perhaps some revolutionaries will find this advantageous. Perhaps the removal of the Constables from the control of the Ministry of Decency will turn out to weaken them. But those are ‘perhaps’, the Princess is already a known danger to those around her and I can’t see giving her the office of mayor while pretending she’s better for the average person.[/li][li]
[/li][li]That said, I still expect her to win. Not because she will be a good mayor, but for the same reason Feducci won - the players want an entertaining card and story, and will vote for whoever is liable to give them the most outrageous and horrible ones.
[/li]
[quote=Hattington]
Oh I’m absolutely not talking about other player characters at all, if only because bar some days of sick leave, dinners and correspondence for all intents purposes they don’t exist in each other’s storylines. I’m talking about the cannibals in the Foreign Office, the snuffers in the Foreign Office and Presbyterate, Hell, the Masters, the more millitant Flukes, the Dawn Machine and the Fingerkings. In short, the actual movers and shakers of the Neath or those who can bypass them by degrees.[/quote]
Fair enough, and you have a valid point. Still, I doubt being an addict and devoid of empathy is enough to make a human - or someone who was original human - a worthy contender in the face of being significantly higher in the chain. The honey isn’t exactly an instrument of uplifting and improving. I’d also note how the Revolutionaries are a huge thorn in the Masters’ side, while the Princess hasn’t been known to do much of anything in terms of influencing politics or attracting the attention/ire of those in power. So wouldn’t the Contrarian be the best candidate for this, then?
[quote]
The Contrarian’s plan being long term in comparison is EXACTLY what has me concerned, when a short term, well executed plan has had relatively little impact on the city as a whole.[/quote]
My argument is that it had a pretty good short-term impact. Just ask Anne about it. She established some welfare, built a school, set up a new Department if I remember correctly, had a literacy campaign among dockers, etc. We don’t see too much of it today because the short-term expired - but worth noting that the effects still linger (like the aforementioned school). She wasn’t by any means completely powerless.
A long term plan, even if with similarly minor-ish effects, would have long term impact and so much greater usefulness in my opinion.
[quote]
it’s only a coherent plan if you take the Contrarian at his word and as a representative of his backers in goodwill[/quote]
"If you take him at his word" might be correct, but he has many words, a lot of which are contradictory. "Representative of his backers in goodwill" is debatable - it’s pretty certain that his plan involves weakening the Constabulary. That’s the "coherent plan" I’m talking about.
[quote]
[quote=Vryl]That said, I still expect her to win. Not because she will be a good mayor, but for the same reason Feducci won - the players want an entertaining card and story, and will vote for whoever is liable to give them the most outrageous and horrible ones.
[/quote]
You know, I had a thought - Feducci won due to being outrageous, and despite being essentially a foreign agent with absolutely no regard for London’s wellbeing. Now people are saying the Princess will win for the same reason, but if you think back to the first election, wasn’t the Bishop the most interesting in that sense? Complete with potentially horrendous consequences for London. Jenny was "outrageous" due to being a prostitute nun and stuff, but her policies were extremely tame. And yet, she won by a landslide, whereas the Bishop had an absolutely pitiful fraction of the vote.
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 6/29/2018
[quote=Dudebro Pyro][quote=Vryl]That said, I still expect her to win. Not because she will be a good mayor, but for the same reason Feducci won - the players want an entertaining card and story, and will vote for whoever is liable to give them the most outrageous and horrible ones.
[/quote]
You know, I had a thought - Feducci won due to being outrageous, and despite being essentially a foreign agent with absolutely no regard for London’s wellbeing. Now people are saying the Princess will win for the same reason, but if you think back to the first election, wasn’t the Bishop the most interesting in that sense? Complete with potentially horrendous consequences for London. Jenny was "outrageous" due to being a prostitute nun and stuff, but her policies were extremely tame. And yet, she won by a landslide, whereas the Bishop had an absolutely pitiful fraction of the vote.
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 6/29/2018[/quote]
You know I think they went all "Outrageous" this time to see what happens. Slowcake doesn’t exis and has extreme policies, The Contrarian is a revolutionary who is running contrary to his own platform, and the Princes…well that one is self explanatory.
edited by Wilhelm Leibniz III on 6/29/2018