Does a thumbing system add to reasoned discussion?

I’m told i’m not the first actually, someone has passed on an ancient and forgotten name. Von Prabik, ring any bells for any of the veterans?[/quote]
Faintly. It happened over last summer when I was barely ever online. AFAIK there was no mobbing involved: Von Prabik repeatedly behaved in a very rude and obnoxious manner and deserved every single downvote they got.

I’d be curious to know what occasions you feel warrant the usage of red ones x[/quote]
a) someone expressing an opinion absolutely contrary to mine
b) someone rudely and persistently ignoring forum etiquette (or just basic human common sense, for that matter)
c) (very) bad puns ;)

Is this THE BEST description you could find? You COULD NOT find any other analogy for the users which up/down vote except monkeys who throw peanuts?
Do you feel comfortable with this description? Don’t you see the problem with it?
Are… are you doing this on purpose?

I mean, I didn’t think you were too rude in the other thread, but I definitely thought you were missing the point of the Monster-Hunter profession/weapon. Thus why I posted in the other thread. I saw the downvotes but didn’t really think anything other than “people think this person is wrong.” Thumbs downs aren’t really anything I’d find worth getting mad over. This isn’t Reddit, so they don’t do anything. (Unless you dig for the ability to hide oft-thumbs-downed posts! I didn’t even know that existed)

But the monkeys thing IS kinda rude.

I think the up/down vote system is a good way of identifying helpful or unhelpful posts, but that a person is more than their forum rep, and ultimately while I get warm fuzzies from getting +1’d from being funny or answering questions, it’s not a big deal.

Oh, wait, I see what’s going on here.

[quote=Nanako][quote=Rupho Schartenhauer]my general thoughts on the matter:
Rupho, hello! So glad you could join us.

Your writeup on the licentate was excellent, everyone loved it! I personally liked it so much i felt the need to make a post saying as such
It seems someone had a problem with that though
I guess that was a particularly abrasive post, right?:(

gosh, that’s nice. it was well over 100 yesterday. I guess the removal of a thread deleted the thumb data too. But it’s gone back up to 100 again during the time i’m writing this post.

I’m told i’m not the first actually, someone has passed on an ancient and forgotten name. Von Prabik, ring any bells for any of the veterans?[/quote]
You mean this fellow? A combined reputation of -39. Over half of it from the one post I’ve linked, which also happens to be a long-form piece of hate mail to Failbetter’s writing staff. As this is primarily a forum for the company’s fans, you might perhaps imagine why that is a generally unpopular sentiment. In fact, when Prabik posted something constructive, amazingly, it DIDN’T attract the &quotapes throwing peanuts&quot and even got a few responses explaining why it worked that way.

Most of the forum likes Fallen London and Sunless Sea because they are the way they are. Many of the changes you propose run counter to the design philosophies behind the game. It’s worth remembering that a great deal of London is effectively a personal work, since Alexis did nearly all the original writing and still retains final say on a good chunk of the lore. Much like Apple and Jony Ive, having a strong and definable creative ethos in leadership will both influence other creators when they work on the same thing, and attract people who appreciate the unique qualities and quirks it results in. It also helps that Alexis often pops by the forums to explain design intent in the hopes that the regulars can help do community relations – whether we agree or not, it’s inarguably a net positive for the community to have rabidly engaged people who are willing and able to explain why a thing is so, without taking the developers’ and writers’ valuable time.

Your post history, for the last couple of weeks, tends to oscillate between hostility towards Failbetter’s design decisions (in writing and mechanics) and apparent willful ignorance. A few examples, if I may.

&quotAn insult.&quot Monster-Hunter is the least popular profession in the game, to be sure, but do you not think your tone comes off as throwing shade at everyone who HAS chosen it?
The rest of that thread seems to indicate you don’t understand what was so explosive about this, so: Your tone here is that of someone who believes they are speaking for everyone, but who is still providing a very personal form of feedback. You have attempted to couch a difference of opinion of the form &quotthis is why I personally don’t care to be X&quot as (what you believe to be) uncontroversial criticism of the form &quotI frankly don’t know why anyone in their right mind would choose X&quot. You’re doing a similar thing in this thread: you’re framing the underlying question, &quotwhy am I getting downvoted so often&quot, as &quotwhy do we need an up/downvote system at all&quot, trying to take for postulate that your personal case is or should be universal.
Also, as others have pointed out, if this is still your belief in the matter then indeed you have missed the point of the profession. The theme of Fallen London is love and desire, and the price one is willing to pay for them. Someone who hunts sea monsters with naught but a spear is indeed willing to pay a great deal; this is demonstrated completely in the Doomed Monster-Hunters of Sunless Sea – and the spear is also a very winking reference to another story with similar themes, written in the actual Victorian era.

I’m aware of that whitelist, it sort of works as a mod directory, but sharing one thread amongst all of them doesn’t give much room for discussion of individual mods.[/quote]
Individual mods do have individual threads, which I guess you either ignored or didn’t bother researching before making that particular topic. The whitelist thread is stickied and contains links to all of the individual threads, which at the very least I (and probably others, since I didn’t see that post until just now) feel somewhat obviates the need for a dedicated forum.

[quote=Nanako]Why is the Laconic Prodigy the best companion in the game for 2 of thye four stats, and second only to the overgoat stuff in watchful as well. The little whelp is far more powerful than any of the other myriad of interesting companions, many of whom are fatelocked and yet still largely worthless.

A child seems like a suitable companion for shadowy, maybe. you can send it to sneak through little places and steal things. But not anything else. It’s vastly overpowered and invalidates a ton of other stuff.

Having the highest shadowy would be incentive enough to buy it. it doesnt need to be so good at everything else too. Please nerf the little bastard [/quote]

I’d expect that sort of behaviour from WoW players, not from this community. A developer can’t be held to ransom over game balance and be unable to make changes

And a mature playerbase shouldn’t have that sense of entitlement and force a developer into a corner either. It’s not a healthy attitude for the strength of a game or the community.

Putting in a pay-to-win option that’s better than every other choice was a bad idea to begin with though. If you make a mess you should clean it up[/quote]
You’re making a mountain out of a molehill here. (So yes, to quote your later post, I do &quotdisagree with you on the scale of the problem&quot.) Paying for the Prodigy is worth, effectively, two points of Shadowy and Dangerous, since the Scuttering Squad (which actually is the best non-Fate, non-profession Companion in the same stats, so unless you are in fact planning to pay for the Prodigy, you won’t be &quotreplacing&quot it) is the next best thing and achievable by free players. Most challenges in Fallen London are Broad difficulty, which means that the effectiveness of each stat point depends on the difficulty of the check. In the late game, two points of a stat are worth, MAYBE, a 1% better chance of succeeding on a check, and the Prodigy is a very late-game item. In addition, a lot of players actually appreciate being able to limit the number of times they need to pop into the Myself tab and change ALL their gear to optimize for specific challenges, which is part of the reason to purchase it in the first place; having a best-in-slot item is a convenience measure. Furthermore it has no impact on PVP, so there’s no &quotpaying to win&quot here. If you really want to pay to &quotwin&quot in Fallen London, all you need to do is buy action refreshes and grind for Echoes. The net effect the Prodigy has on your &quotcompetitiveness&quot with other players is nil, because there is no challenge in the game that REQUIRES those specific two points of Dangerous or Shadowy to tick over from 99% to 100%.
Also: &quotI’d expect that sort of behaviour from WoW players&quot? Well, frankly, some of us are WoW players, but you wouldn’t expect that from, say, people who buy consumer electronics? Or hardware or tools in general? Why, come to think of it, is your suggestion to destroy something that already exists – to betray the trust of everyone who already purchased it – instead of to create new alternatives to it? You don’t seem to agree that outfit-swapping is boring, so perhaps propose separate free Companions with +9 or +10 in one stat each, and -2 in the opposite?

(It’s worth pointing out here that you made nine posts in 24 hours in the Feedback thread, and the three discussing the Prodigy are the only ones with a score below zero; the downvote brigade you seem to be convinced is after you is either very lazy, very topical, or simply doesn’t exist. Occam’s razor – or Hanlon’s if you choose to be cynical – suggests that you just have some very controversial posts with which many people disagree.)

I’m not sure what I would suggest at this point. You seem dead set in your ways on this forum, but your ideas of what Fallen London should be are so different from what it is, and from the general consensus between the writers and community of what it is and will be, that you’re trying to preach the FSM in the Vatican. Based on the significant dissatisfaction you show with Fallen London, the best I can probably advise you is that the game simply isn’t your niche, and that as the stories continue you will likely continue to find them unsatisfactory. If you don’t like the idea of abandoning the underpinning mechanics, you could try StoryNexus; there’s tons of free content there, much of it not by Failbetter. You could write your own, too, if that sort of thing appeals to you.

(I suppose you could also take up my analogy and try to argue that we’re being religious zealots by disagreeing with you and that we should be more open-minded, but I would suggest that the fact that we have more contact with the devs than your average evangelical does with God should discourage that tack.)
edited by Jeremy Avalon on 2/8/2016

To my darlingest Nanako,
On the occasion of your one-hundredth down vote… let’s talk.

Silly jabs out of the way, I’ll echo what several others have said before me. It’s not always what you say, but how you say it. Some times it is (apes?), I confess. However, most of what I have a problem with concerning you, and I do have a slight bug up my butt regarding you, is that of tone. You often post opiions or ask questions in such a way as to constantly put the majority of the active community on the defensive. Having to defend one’s hobby from the outset rarely puts one in a good mood.

Further complaints? The fact that you make so many many topics that it becomes difficult to locate what we actually want to read and discuss. Now I exaggerate a touch. Obviously you haven’t created like 60 topics or anything, but it does keep you constantly in the public eye, spouting opinions in such a way as to rile us up. I don’t mean to say you’re a troll, or that you’re doing it on purpose, even. I think your opinions are valid, too, even though I disagree with the lion’s share of them.

Yeah… I’m sure I’ve rambled. I tend to do that. But I wanted to voice my own personal issues with you, rather than merely heap on downvotes. It would ill-become the purpose of the thread, frankly. And speaking of downvotes, I think they work fine. Nor do I think that people are spamming you with fake accounts for downvotes. I simply think you come off as that abrasive. Real talk.

I wrote up a whole response before my computer crashed, but as others have said before me, the ratings don’t say whether or not you are a bad person, but whether or not people tend to agree with you. I have found some of your posts rather agreeable and made a point of upvoting them (no one is denying that you do have very agreeable posts sometimes), but for every great post you make, you make five more provocative ones. People are allowed to downvote opinions that they don’t agree with rather than writing up an entire post on why they don’t agree with you, you can not decide how it is appropriate for others to behave. When you frequently make posts that do nothing but complain about or insult FBG, the game, or other players of course the downvotes are going to majorly outnumber the upvotes. Sure, there have been a few times where you have been downvoted unfairly, those are typicaly the posts with he smallest amount of downvotes. What I have seen (tried to do myself) is that when such a thing happens the forum members try to fix the damage by upvoting it. You really don’t have much of a reason to behave like a victim. People constantly try to call you out on your offensive behavior and you do nothing but dodge it and make yourself out to be a victim, of course it is going to cause some anger to stir. It has actually been very well controlled from what I’ve seen, the forum members have been really patient with you typically. I really don’t like to write long posts like this typically, I guess you could call me one of those apes because I prefer to passively express my opinion. Honestly, that analogy was the real reason I wrote this post, it was so deeply disturbing and offensive to me. Maybe I’m biased to the point of taking it to seriously (I’ve been unfairly compared to an ape by people who don’t even know me since… forever), but I personally think that anyone who believes that it is in any way appropriate to compare a human being to a lesser ANIMAL probably deserves the downvotes that they get…
edited by Psyche Labyrinth on 2/8/2016