De Animo (possible mild spoilers)

What is the soul?

I don’t mean that in the sense of a Brass Embassy lecture. (Well, not precisely.) I am, however, curious as to what exactly is held in those bottles that sit so carelessly around. Thus, let us consider.

The soul, in Western terms, has two classic definitions. The philosophical definition comes from Aristotle, and postulates three kinds of souls: the vegetative soul (which living things have and rocks don’t), the sensitive soul (which mobile organisms have and plants don’t), and the rational soul (which humans have and animals don’t). The theological definition is the eternal, immaterial portion of the human person. To put it bluntly (and to paraphrase I have forgotten whom), we do not have souls; we are souls that have a body. Thus, in classical theology, dividing the soul and the body leaves one with an immaterial spirit on one hand and a corpse on the other.

Now, plainly Fallen London isn’t using the theological definition here. It does play with that idea. In the Aunt story (and probably elsewhere) there is a directly stated link between Hell having one’s soul and eternal damnation. However, it is by no means certain that these snippets reflect the actual state of affairs in the Neath, and in any case it is certainly discussed in terms of the soul’s owner being damned, as opposed to the soul itself, that is to say the very being. In addition, of course, here are all sorts of persons in the Neath wandering around without any soul at all, and still breathing and (after a fashion) rationally functioning. Unless Hell has a method of animating dead bodies that’s never been hinted at, then we must assume that the soulless are not, as traditional theology would have it, merely corpses. What then, is the ‘soul’ that that ignoble sommelier collects for his masters?

Let us first turn to the soulless. PCs experience almost no effects from having Their Very Own Infernal Contracts once the text of the exchange has passed, but it must be admitted that this may simply be an artefact of the writers wanting to allow us to sell our souls but don’t want us having a miserable experience afterward. (Also, continual &quotdoes he have a soul?&quot checks can’t do anything healthy to the server load.) So, I think we must set PCs aside. What of soulless NPCs? Perhaps the clearest effect of the soul’s absence is an inability to form human connection; this has been pointed out in numerous places. The other aspects of humanity which the soulless seem to be missing–creativity, strong emotion, etc.–can broadly be considered the &quotlively&quot side of personality. You can’t imagine the soulless are very good at parties. Colorless. Bland. Drab. The soulless are consistently represented as quiet, glum folks without much in the way of excitement, drive, or good posture. (They remind one slightly of the enslaved gnomes of The Silver Chair.) I know of no counterexamples.

Also, we must consider the one case I know of where a PC can return a soul to a particular individual.

It is, to be generous, uncertain whether Alice gets her own soul back. It’s worth noting that, not only the PC, but also the Soldier and Alice have no precise way of saying &quotYes, that is hers&quot or &quotNo, it isn’t,&quot even after the procedure. On the other hand, nobody seems particularly eager to examine the matter minutely. Thus, this episode is too uncertain for us to base conclusions on, and must stand mostly as a caution to our theories.

So, examining the soulless, we see persons who are technically alive but not doing much of a job at living. What comes from examining the bottle? The most obvious observation is that souls vary tremendously, from your run-of-the-mill souls to the brilliant ones to the rare coruscating number to the supremely old and silent types. Various text relating to Brilliant Souls particularly connects their quality with the station of the original owner: queens, poets, saints, criminals. Exceptional folk who’ve led exceptional types. As there doesn’t seem to be a major difference between the soulless, we can assume that Abstraction levels the field, and therefore that the potency of the bottled soul is proportional to the individual’s lost capacities. I assume that point won’t cause much argument. Much more interestingly, though, freeing Brilliant Souls (where do they go?) makes clear that the individual’s memory is contained in that glass. Are the soulless then amnesiacs? Soulless PCs aren’t, of course, but as I’ve already said they must be considered a special case. I don’t know of anything in London that concretely confirms either the loss or retention of memory after abstraction for those unlucky enough to have sold their souls without a Surfacer telling them to.

For a third point, let us consider Abstraction and primates. It is known that in cases of particular unwisdom human souls can be transplanted into apes. This transfer has the potential to give apes human-level intelligence that disappears when the soul is removed (as opposed to the intelligence of R. faber etc.), though this does not seem to be a universal result. It also has the possibility of giving the ape recognizable mannerisms from the original owner. Again, this is not a guaranteed universal result, but it does imply that at least some of one’s personality quirks (if not Quirks) are attached to one’s soul.

Finally, one must consider the ravings of madmen. This is the Neath, after all, and madmen are often worth listening to. The most common statement on the soul (as expressed by a certain cracked spirifer) is that they are &quotstar-spores,&quot which is a weighty statement given what we know of those bodies. However, the ultimate truth of that statement, as well as the possible uses to which Hell may put the soul, is a matter for cosmographers and Correspondents; it is beside the current question. The one relevant observation we must make is that these rumors are all agreed that the bottled soul has life–and perhaps can give life–independently of the donor. I know of no evidence that the bottled soul shares with [redacted] the property of losing its potency upon the owner’s death, and we have evidence of some souls that are very old indeed. (Not that that proves the owner is dead, the way things go down here.)

What then is the soul of London? It is certainly an immaterial portion of the being, but not in the theological sense. It is unique to Man as far as can be told, but not rational soul of Aristotle. (Otherwise, the soulless could not think and speak; they would be little more than Surface animals.) Is it fair to call it one’s personality? That is probably closer yet, but still, I think, an overstatement. Are there no traces of personality and memory left to the NPC soulless of London? I do not think we can make that statement, at least not without further evidence. The same must be said for will: the soulless are not entirely without will, but they are certainly without strength of will. I think it is fair to say that even if the soul is not the animating principle in the classical sense, it is certainly that which makes a person animated in current parlance. Thus, for lack of a better word, it may be best to think of it in terms of personality after all. For now.

What do you think? Any other ideas? Any evidence that challenges or corroborates my theories?

Regarding monkeys, they seem to have some significant level of intelligence even without a human soul, as seen with the Malicious Monkey for example. I don’t think human souls are what give the Pentecost Apes their human intelligence, or at least not all of it; the soul just seems to be the source of their human behavior.

The question of what happens when someone else’s soul is placed into a soulless body is an interesting one indeed. As you note, the Regretful Solider storyline sidesteps the question of whether or not the soul you can return to his wife is actually hers or not. However, when attempting to retrieve one’s own soul, it becomes extremely important to retrieve one’s specific, original soul.

But for purposes of this discussion, I think the most interesting example is what happens with the Brisk Campaigner in Sunless Sea:

When her soul is consumed by animesence, you can save her by placing a Judgement’s Egg (the most &quotpowerful&quot form of soul in both Sunless Sea and Fallen London) into her body. Aside from revitalizing her body, it seems to energize her personality, changing her into the Indomitable Campaigner. Her memory and intellect, however, do not seem to change. All of this suggests that it is entirely possible to put someone else’s soul into a soulless person, but that the results are not ideal and will result in personality changes.

It might be worth looking into ancient Egyptian beliefs in the different parts of the soul (ka, ba, etc.), to see if they fit into the soul in Fallen London.

It has been some time since I read the text, but I seem to remember that their intelligence diminishes at the very end.

Does anyone have the Echo handy?

If I’m remembering right, the placement of a human soul into the body of an ape seems to be related to the Ape’s facility of speech. I wonder if, perhaps, the ability to speak is given weight beyond merely the intelligence it requires. It could be that the use of language is actually related to one’s place on the Chain, and therefore regulated by the Judgements. This could also possibly explain why some animals can speak in the Neath–they were always intelligent enough, but on the Surface they are forbidden.

Anyways, souls…

As you note, souls seem to be unique to humans. So the question of “what is a soul” is uniquely entwined with the question of “what is a human,” which is something we kind of take for granted but may actually be a deeper and trickier (and, perhaps, Treacherous) question in the world of Fallen London.

I am under the impression that the origins of humanity may actually be a mystery of the Neath. I have nothing very specific to back that up… just that a lot of the references to the Mountain of Light seem to be alluding to the Garden of Eden and other aspects of the biblical creation myth. Depending on the details and veracity of this supposition, the soul maybe a result of humans’ different lineage from the autochthonous species of the Earth, both Surface and otherwise.

I thought the title said &quotDe Anime&quot and got excited.

Anyways, I have the answer for you right here:

A soul is what you give to a devil in exchange for valuables. Then, like any rational person, you get your soul back and optionally repeat the process.

But where’s the incentive? Why get your soul back? I can get up to 120 per action via Spite, so what’s so important about mine? The answer, once again, is a simple one:

The Chamberlain in The Shuttered Palace will only talk to you if you have your soul and The Starveling Cat will only [EXPUNGED] if you have your soul.

If you do not plan to partake in either of those two actions which require a soul, then it would be illogical to keep it. More so, it would be morally wrong to deny yourself the freedom of that burden and the riches devils would give fot43wq

sudden whoosh

shuffling

Alright, I’m back. Sorry, I went to the bathroom…

… Why does my keyboard smell like brimstone?

The &quotstar-spore&quot idea, if I understand the process correctly, leads to interesting implications.

Human souls, as far as we know, cannot speak, and presumably carry the personalities and intelligence of their previous owners. They also come in gaseous form.

When combined together, they can form a star, or a Judgement. While souls normally can’t speak, they become able to shape reality through speaking Correspondence, implying that together souls are able to speak Correspondence.

This could also mean that Judgements are a mind composed of many different minds and personalities. A second theory is that, much like normal stars, the Judgements burn their gases (in this case, souls instead of helium and hydrogen), destroying these minds to prolong their lives. It is possible that one mind becomes dominant and chooses which minds are burned to preserve it.

However, it is noted that souls can speak (when you convert Brilliant Souls to Tales of Terror)
edited by Ixc on 1/9/2018

Souls, as in, the gaseous beings that seem to be with a human from birth, are sort of like a memory chip in a camera (human), awaiting it’s upload to a computer (Judgement). They are made by Judgements (At the Forge of Souls, I’m presuming), for Judgements, and are actually not a part of a human at all.

They are there to record the human experience in it’s entirety, and deliver it to a Judgement. A soul instinctively wants to deliver interesting memories to a Judgement, and therefore acts as a stimulant to the human they inhabit, heightening their emotions and desires. Without a soul, a major motivator is gone, but you still have your emotions and desires. It is simply up to you to drive yourself, much like in real life. People in the Fallen London universe simply aren’t accustomed to there not being an external driving force behind their emotions and desires, and therefore many of them fall into a slump without it, explaining the many catatonic soulless of Fallen London.

Now, as for the true soul, the essence of our being that goes to the Boat whether you’re soulless or not, and by extension on to the Far Country, I believe that is a much deeper and interesting mystery. Seemingly, the Far Country is an afterthought created by the Judgements to deal with the vessels once the soul has gathered their experiences. It certainly seems that it’s not the way things were originally supposed to be.

It leads me to believe that sentient creatures existed before the Judgements, and that they are merely imprisoning and suppressing core aspects of reality in their attempt to superimpose their idea of order on reality. Law is not Truth.

but that last part may be rambling and getting off topic.
edited by Addis Rook on 1/10/2018

An intriguing hypothesis. Is this merely speculation, or do you have some evidence to support this view? Hopefully we will learn more about the Forge of Souls (and souls in general) in Sunless Skies.

Ah, once again my feelings regarding the Liberation of Night grow ever more conflicted. Especially considering this post that came up recently. What else might the Judgements be suppressing? Of course, viewing them purely as oppressors is a very simplistic view. It’s possible that there are some very unpleasant things that their light keeps at bay…

Well, I’m not extremely organized, as in I don’t have the exact snippets written down, but I know that I’ve seen in canon and on these forums a few reveals of what happens to souls when they leave the body. Ultimately, they end up either in a Judgement, with all their memories gathered incorporated, or as a Judgement. The rest is theory branching out from that fact.

Their light has its’ perks, and I think that the Liberation of Night is simply the opposite extreme and not how things really are either, but the Judgements are too strict. Perhaps they have to be that way, I think there very well could be things that they absolutely cannot allow in reality for their own sake, but it makes everyone else suffer.
edited by Addis Rook on 1/10/2018

Never seen anything suggesting that, neither in Fallen London, nor in the deepest (huh!) meshes of Sunless Sea. But, given that our favorite Parabolan bees uses souls to…

(re)write laws

…and given the fact, that especially exceptional souls…

become &quotspores&quot for Judgements

…and mixing it with the fact that Judgements literally &quotemanate&quot law via their light, I think that souls, themselves, must have something serious to do with essence of law. By the way, Devilbone Dice might be created…

when soul-law is broken for whatever reason, if we take seriously what Merchant Venturer says about this, and that in SS Devilbone Dices are exported from Hell.

Also, it is worth mentioning that Jade is mentioned as &quotfossilized souls&quot in way too many unrelated places to be just a nocturnal twist on urban legend, without having some grain of truth in it.

Cheers,
/CatLady

Edit:
I don’t have slightest idea why my first spoiler tag works, but further ones doesn’t. They’re, literally, formatted the same way.
edited by CatLady on 1/17/2018

You can only have one spoiler tag per post.

[quote=CatLady][quote=Addis Rook]…reveals of what happens to souls when they leave the body. Ultimately, they end up either in a Judgement…[/quote]Never seen anything suggesting that, neither in Fallen London, nor in the deepest (huh!) meshes of Sunless Sea.[/quote]Is it

[spoiler]from an option on the Nadir Catafalquerie card?
The return of the soul
&quotSome may call it ascension. I call it consumption. The fate awaits us all, unless Hell preserves us. Perhaps even then.&quot

?

You can find another more blatant mention in a certain foolish quest but why? In God’s name, why? What can you possibly hope to gain?[/spoiler]

Well, we’re drifting a bit from the question (which was not &quotWhat happens to the soul?&quot or &quotWhat is the relation of the soul to Hell and/or the Judgments?&quot but &quotWhat is a soul?&quot). This probably means I should take the words &quotpossible&quot and &quotmild&quot out of the title.

Regarding the suggestion that souls are a &quotcamera&quot of sorts, and &quotnot part of a human at all,&quot it has what I consider to be a fatal weakness: the soulless are distinctly without most of the capacities that we think of as definingly human: creativity, deep emotion, will. Their humanity is, in some definite sense, impaired by the loss of their souls. Ergo, it is to be concluded that the soul is an integral part of humanity as we understand it.

Interesting quote from SS:

&quotWe’ve been building our Hives on the edges of parabola, when humans were apes, yet. Unripe things those are, souls of the apes - not unlike those spirits of yours&quot. [spirit as in alcoholic beverage, in context]&quot

It comes from certain (more important than it initially seems) deviless - not a letter-to-letter quote, written from my memory, but I have good one for lore, so pretty sure point is same.

@Sinnouk
Thanks, missed this one!

edited by CatLady on 1/17/2018

Well, there have always been parallels between Souls and Wine wherever the devils are present. But this suggests a deeper connection. Note only are they consumable, and addictive, but there seems to be a parallel to aging or fermentation.

This also reminds me of my Infernal Vinification Apparatus. This suggests that souls can still be further refined post-abstraction… somehow.