This was only my second story but I enjoyed it a lot :)
Caroline hated this one but I found it fairly amusing. The lack of visible progress tracking in the chase was a bit annoying, but otherwise fairly good. I laughed and took a screenshot at the options when her house was flooding. I confess the tonal shift took me off guard but I think that was a case of it being well played. That should take you off guard from the somewhat comical beginning.
Caroline is a good hearted soul with very high Steadfast and Magnanimous, but when she feels betrayed she has a vengeful streak a mile wide. She set everything on fire and was quite pleased with herself.
I’m a new player (barely POSI) and this was my first exceptional story, so it might color my opinion.
I immensely enjoyed the first part, Fallen London at its best (about to drown? let’s make tea).
I liked the lore and atmosphere of the second part, but it felt a bit rushed to me. I thought "already? this was just getting good" when I was confronted with the final choice. Then again, being my first story, I didn’t know what length to expect.
The post-ending lack of consequences was a bit disppointing. I chose to help the Council, and while I obviously didn’t expect cataclysmic changes in the statu quo, I anticipated some kind of comically pyrotechnic flaw in the Council’s plan. Oh well.
FWIW, the “Bad Ending” requires high council ties (5+) and the “Wall Everything Up and Walk Away” requires <=1. (Yeah, late to the party, was doing the Notability grind.)
[quote=0bsidian Fire]Echo of you burning out the Spider Council: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kharagal%20Mierqid?fromEchoId=14500602
The reward is (fittingly) a Searing Enigma.[/quote]
Thanks! :)
When I saw what waited below my lodgings, my immediate thought was: “I want to set everything on fire.”
Lo and behold, Failbetter read my mind. Fwoosh.
[quote=Nudraxon]I feel that the whole "This is a very bad idea. Do not do this" warning is becoming a bit overused. When it is used for options that are only bad from a narrative standpoint, it lessens the effect for truly bad choices which will permanently damage your character (i.e. Seeking).
[/quote]
I personally think consequences almost solely matter from a narrative standpoint. You pay material costs all the time, most people will go to the menace areas all the time, and it’s easy to regrind almost anything (that isn’t worth more than a few hundred echoes) or get back out of any menace area. Is gambling for a yacht a Bad Idea? It has severe and expensive material consequences, unless you get very lucky. In that sense, the entirety of Seeking can be viewed as just a storyline to "buy" the Knock, just as long as you turn around (not turning around might well be the one mechanical Bad Idea, and is certainly the only one I can think of). It’s an expensive Knock - much, much more so than, say, the aforementioned Yacht - but that doesn’t make it bad, just expensive.
So really, the only reason Seeking is considered "bad" is due to the narrative setting (and the option to literally render your character unplayable - but that’s a clear choice, so from a purely mechanical standpoint doesn’t matter when considering the rest of the storyline). Imagine if Seeking was framed as an epic and lengthy quest to obtain, I don’t know, a Condensed Crystal of Mountain-Light from the Garden that grants you as much life as the Presbyter himself and mechanically is a +4 BDR item - would it still be considered a bad idea? All the menaces and item loss could be framed as a consequnce of the dangers of going after an extremely rare and highly guarded artefact. It could retain all of its character-draining potential (mechanically), with the exact same reward (mechanically), but without the narrative backing, it would be hailed as an epic quest for a rare prize rather than a Bad Idea.
One way I might consider something a Bad Idea mechanically is if it takes away a unique item you can’t get back (or have to spend an inordinate amount of effort getting back - I wouldn’t want to lose a Cider or a Knock, of course). And yet even then, every three months a storylet appears that takes away three completely unique items that are only re-obtainable through Fate, with the reward almost always being an ordinary tier 6 item (and some lore), and almost everybody waits for these storylets with impatience - because of the narrative framing playing it up as a Good Idea and a natural thing you’re expected to play through.
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 8/1/2018
How many "This is a very bad idea" warnings are there in Fallen London? I can only recall three off the top of my head: SMEN-related choices (in general), drinking from the Wound in Flint, and this. SMEN is obviously incredibly harmful both narratively and mechanically. Drinking is harmful mechanically, but rather mundane narratively. This is only notably harmful in narrative.
The issue, of course, is expectations. This choice is narratively unpleasant, and many players may be understandably disturbed by the content. But those of us with the context of other warnings expect something more graphically horrifying or mechanically risky. I think this needs something closer to the warning on the optional Jack of Smiles case content: this choice is not for everyone, but your character will remain mechanically intact.
Sadly it’s hard to just say "eye horror ahead, steer carefully" without lessening the emotional impact.
Does anyone have the companion you get from the bad ending on their mantelpiece?
[quote=NotaWalrus]Does anyone have the companion you get from the bad ending on their mantelpiece?[/quote] My mantlepiece is spoken for, but I’ll keep it equipped for at least a day.
edited by elderfleur on 8/1/2018
[quote=elderfleur][quote=NotaWalrus]Does anyone have the companion you get from the bad ending on their mantelpiece?[/quote] My mantlepiece is spoken for, but I’ll keep it equipped for at least a day.
edited by elderfleur on 8/1/2018[/quote]
Many thanks!
[quote=Optimatum]How many "This is a very bad idea" warnings are there in Fallen London? I can only recall three off the top of my head: SMEN-related choices (in general), drinking from the Wound in Flint, and this. SMEN is obviously incredibly harmful both narratively and mechanically. Drinking is harmful mechanically, but rather mundane narratively. This is only notably harmful in narrative.
The issue, of course, is expectations. This choice is narratively unpleasant, and many players may be understandably disturbed by the content. But those of us with the context of other warnings expect something more graphically horrifying or mechanically risky. I think this needs something closer to the warning on the optional Jack of Smiles case content: this choice is not for everyone, but your character will remain mechanically intact.
Sadly it’s hard to just say "eye horror ahead, steer carefully" without lessening the emotional impact.[/quote]
yeah the trade off between expectation and suspense is difficult to manage. I think there’s a few more ‘this is a very bad idea’ warnings in exceptional stories that function more the way this one did, maybe the rat catcher back in may?
[quote=annalibertas][quote=Optimatum]How many "This is a very bad idea" warnings are there in Fallen London? I can only recall three off the top of my head: SMEN-related choices (in general), drinking from the Wound in Flint, and this. SMEN is obviously incredibly harmful both narratively and mechanically. Drinking is harmful mechanically, but rather mundane narratively. This is only notably harmful in narrative.
The issue, of course, is expectations. This choice is narratively unpleasant, and many players may be understandably disturbed by the content. But those of us with the context of other warnings expect something more graphically horrifying or mechanically risky. I think this needs something closer to the warning on the optional Jack of Smiles case content: this choice is not for everyone, but your character will remain mechanically intact.
Sadly it’s hard to just say "eye horror ahead, steer carefully" without lessening the emotional impact.[/quote]
yeah the trade off between expectation and suspense is difficult to manage. I think there’s a few more ‘this is a very bad idea’ warnings in exceptional stories that function more the way this one did, maybe the rat catcher back in may?[/quote]
I’m pretty sure the 12:15 from Molurch Street had one when you
choose to visit hell had the warning too.
edited by Winthropx on 8/2/2018
Now that I think of it, Where You and I Must Go and The Gift both have such warnings too.
Overall the story wasn’t horrible, but its certainly my new least favorite exceptional story. It felt too short since a lot of the story was repeated actions.
The concept was a really good one, and I’m intrigued at some of the larger lore implications. The execution was uneven, to say the least.
The first part was fun enough, though completely serial and straightforward. The second part was just tedious.
Nice touches:
- The slow reveal spiders. I should have figured it out much sooner than I did.[/li][li]The game remembering the character’s past interaction with a Spider Council.[/li][li]Includes challenged which aren’t 100% straightforward for capped characters.[/li][li]Unique item (the Eyeball) + very rare item (The Ratty Reliquary). Too bad that these are only for helping the Council.
Weak parts:
- The chase scene was way too long and repetitive.[/li][li]Hidden qualities to track progress don’t convey a sense of progress. Why should I catch a bat 3 times before I can call someone to fix my wall? The same for all other cases, in all parts of the story.[/li][li]As noted by others, the premise makes no sense given an advanced characters 4-5 cards lodgings. I know that the point is that the story is supposed to be a flashback to earlier times but this isn’t communicated well.[/li][li]I didn’t like challenged being fixed at 60%. By all means, give us non-straightforward challenges, but let us try to make an impact on our odds using our equipped gear. Just include a few challenges based on a very high stat level, and craft it so that you can progress whether you win or lose (to no block newer characters), but with slightly different impacts/rewards.[/li][li]No divergence at all to the story’s progression. At a minimum, the story could have given us a choice of what to fix first at our lodgings.[/li][li]The game gives you an incentive to either consistently get close to the Council or to consistently keep your distance. But the end result only really rewards getting close to them. If you consistently distance yourself, you can an additional option which is functionally the same as another existing option (which is actually even more anti-Council), with no special, unique, or even rare reward.
Overall, the story was OK.
Personal ranking of all Exceptional Stories:
[spoiler]
Excellent:
[ul][li]Lost in Reflections[/li][li]Cut with Moonlight[/li][li]Hojotoho![/li][li]The Frequently Deceased[/li][li]The Waltz that Moved the World[/li][li]Steeped in Honey[/li][li]Flint[/li][li]All Things Must End[/li][li]Written In The Glim[/li][li]The Century Exhibition[/li][li]The Twelve-Fifteen From Moloch Street[/li][li]The Persona Engine[/li][li]Where You and I Must Go[/li][li]The Sinking Synod[/li][li]The Attendants[/li][/ul]Good:
- The Murgatroyd Formula[/li][li]Lamentation Lock[/li][li]The Web of the Motherlings[/li][li]The Pentecost Predicament[/li][li]The Calendar Code[/li][li]The Rat-Catcher[/li][li]The Art of Murder[/li][li]The Chimney Pot Wars[/li][li]The Final Curtain[/li][li]The Bones of London[/li][li]The Heart, the Devil and the Zee
OK:
[ul][li]Our Lady of Pyres[/li][li]Required Repairs[/li][li]The Clay Man’s Arm[/li][li]Five Minutes to Midday[/li][li]Discernment[/li][li]The Haunting at the Marsh House[/li][li]The Pursuit of Moths[/li][li]Factory of Favours[/li][/ul]Meh:
[ul][li]Trial and Error[/li][li]The Last Dog Society[/li][li]The Seven-Day Reign[/li][li]The Court of Cats[/li][/ul]Terrible:
[ul][li]The Stone Guest
[/li][/ul][/spoiler]
edited by dov on 8/5/2018
Regarding the 60% challenges - I appreciated that, as a flashback, current equipment might not necessarily influence the success chance. On the other hand, it does take away a lot of agency, and that left a bit of a sour taste. Perhaps having the challenges be based on the unmodified stats would have been better? This would have kept very roughly uniform scaling across character levels (since newer characters will also only have tiny bonuses to from equipment - I remeber being amazed by the +4 items from the Making your Name storylines - while end-game characters with maxed out stats will have access to +50 or +70 bonuses).
On the other hand, in stories that aren’t explicitly flashbacks, I definitely agree that getting some more high-stat challenges would be nice. It can just be a different result text, maybe a trinket worth half an echo; or it can be a “shortcut” with other choices present such as paying a small few in items, or spending 2-3 extra actions. The latter especially would give a way for high-stat characters to feel like their stats matter, and they can get through situations using their own skill rather than having to pay or find a workaround (without feeling really cheap as happens the challenge is level 30 or so, which seems to be the general case). Meanwhile, newer characters will still have plenty of options and will suffer a minor inconvenience at best, and personally if I were a new character going through that I’d appreciate seeing the extremely hard challenge as a “teaser” of what I would be able to do after I’d progress in the game (just as long as it’s done sparingly enough to not start to feel like you’re having options cut off at every corner due to low stats, which might feel frutrating).
Lamentation Lock (I don’t know if they were scaling or not) did this, and that was really nice - I (and others) actually felt like doing it for the sake of the challenge, instead of just thinking about the optimal decision for themselves knowing that the outcome is guaranteed. It really served to not cheapen the three leaders. I do hope FB adds more of these.
I would just like to say that the name Borough Councilman is probably my favorite piece of wordplay in Fallen London. That’s up there with the Tiger Keeper.
This is only my second exceptional story and I’m not a native English user, so the following is just some very personal opinion.
This story didn’t appear satisfying to me. For the first part of repairing it was rather fun. I like the narrative about the urchin and the option of having tea. I chose to have tea the minute I saw the option though I knew there probably won’t be any rewards. But it’s just so London. I can’t resist it. And now I’d say it’s also my favourite part of this story. However, the new option system(?) was confusing. If I have to choose all the options, as I remember, to advance the story, then there are hardly any sense to make a choice. Maybe it can be changed like: The repairer is on their way. Using these options to make certain value reach certain number and the story will move on. I think players will tend to try all the options. And it’ll at least be less weird. Above all, the first part is fine.
But the second part is just… exhausting. Exhausting is the word I would use. It’s not that boring with all the information it gave, but wandering in the sewer round and round made me so tired. And there are no long narratives which I always enjoy reading. There are only sentences even shorter than snippets, which made it much more torturing to watch my candle being eaten, so as my patience. At last I kept clicking and clicking just trying to leave this story sooner as I could. I feel sorry for the writers but that’s the fact. Maybe it’ll be better to present more and longer texts, and to set a certain regularity to encounter the Councilman so the process won’t be so desperate.
But still, I like the way informations are given seperately in different passages, and how players can put them together gradually.
I did enjoy the story overal, but the is one big BUT.
What was those fake atributes challenges meant to be? No matter how I modify my dangerous, the chance of succefuly going into the thickest webbing is always 60%. I’m sorry but this is, and there is no better expression, insulting my inteligence(whatever the state of it may be…).
I see why you have done it. You want both early and late game players feel like their stats matters in ESs, while of course true skill challenges are hard to use because the story needs to be accesible to everyone.
But his way you are just playing poorly covered trick on us.