Announcing the Third Tournament of the SRS!

Fallen London
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Calling all duelists! It is with great delight that I announce that the Third Tournament of the Sanguine Ribbon Society is now officially open for signups. Win Sanguine Ribbons, make (and kill!) new friends, and prove yourself the greatest duelist in London as you cross blades and match wits with other contestants. Everyone in Fallen London with a Black Ribbon is welcome to participate. Fame and fortune await the champions!

What is the Sanguine Ribbon Society (SRS)?

[ul][li]The SRS was created by Mike Hawk as a way to connect Fallen Londoners who are interested in Lethal Sparring Bouts and earning Sanguine Ribbons, and also for hosting tournaments such as this one. The SRS is purely player-run, and is not affiliated with or endorsed by Failbetter Games. There are currently over 50 players in the SRS, and anyone can join simply by adding their profile information to the Leaderboard.
[/li][/ul]The full rules and signup process for the tournament are posted on the SRS tournament rules page, but here’s a quick rundown:

When does the Tournament begin?

  • The Tournament can’t begin until there are enough contestants signed up, so right now the start date is not fixed. Once there are enough participants, I will make a separate announcement on this forum and the Fallen London subreddit containing both the signup cut-off date (after which signups will be closed) and the official tournament start date. The signup period will continue for at least the next two weeks from now, so stay tuned to this forum and/or the subreddit for the next announcement.

How do I sign up for the Tournament?

  • To be eligible to participate, you must have at least one Black Ribbon, which in Fallen London is required to challenge someone to a Lethal Sparring Bout (or be challenged). This is not the same as a Sanguine Ribbon; you don’t need any of those to participate.[/li][li]Go to the Fighting Outfits page, and record the gear you’ll use for the tournament. To prevent cheating, you must wear this outfit for all tournament-related actions, and when waiting for your opponent to respond.[/li][li]Determine which League (Lightweight or Heavyweight) you will be participating in (see the ‘How to Apply’ section of the Third Tournament page). [/li][li]Add your name and profile link to the SRS Leaderboard (if you haven’t done so already), mark yourself as Active, and mark which League you will be in under the ‘Applying For’ column.

[ul][li]This tournament will be double elimination, with separate brackets for the Lightweight and Heavyweight leagues. You can see a sample double-elimination bracket on the SRS page – you may want to take a look at it to get a sense of how a double-elimination tournament works if you aren’t already familiar with it.
[/li][li]I will place contestants into the brackets via random generator, and will create filled-out brackets on the SRS page just like the sample one that’s already there. Participants will be responsible for updating the online bracket as they proceed through the tournament.
[/li][li]When the tournament begins, put on your Fighting Outfit, go to the SRS page and locate your name on the page containing your designated League bracket, and challenge the other player that you’re marked as facing off against! Either party can initiate the first Lethal Sparring Bout.[/li][li]A battle of strength and wits! Each round of the bracket will consist of TWO Lethal Sparring Bouts. Either player can initiate the first Bout, but the OTHER player must initiate the second one (this is to eliminate the advantage enjoyed by the challenged party). To advance, a player must win BOTH Lethal Sparring Bouts. If both players win one Bout, they then must play two games of chess, with the same rules. If they both win one game of chess, repeat with two more Lethal Sparring Bouts, then two more games of chess, etc., until one player has won both.[/li][li]A Hard-Earned Lesson! Even if you lose your two Lethal Sparring Bouts or chess games, in this double-elimination tournament, you have a Second Chance to win. You’ll move your name to your designated place in the loser bracket. The champion of the loser bracket will face off against the winner bracket champion to determine the final League Champion.[/li][/ul]What can I win?

[ul][li]The champion of each League will be honoured by having their name placed in the Sanguine Hall of Fame, alongside previous champions Nezum, Karsus, and Kadorath! I will also announce the winners in a new post on this forum and on the Fallen London subreddit for all to see.
[/li][li]The two league champions will each receive a prize of 150 First City Coins, and the two runners-up will each receive 60 First City Coins. The Coins are being donated by myself and SRS founder Mike Hawk.
[/li][/ul]Your feedback and suggestions are welcome, and feel free to PM me with any questions about the tournament or the SRS. Please note that the rules are subject to change prior to signup cut-off date; if there are changes, I will update this post and the official Third Tournament rules page. For now, if you’re interested, go ahead and sign up for the tournament, and keep an eye on this forum and/or the subreddit for the tournament start date post. I hope to see many of my fellow Fallen Londoners competing for the prize. Until then, keep your blades (and wits) sharp!

(EDIT: Added possession of a Black Ribbon to ‘How to Apply’, which the game requires to invite or be invited to a Lethal Sparring Bout)
(EDIT 2: added note on proposed ruled change regarding how rounds in the tournament might work)
(EDIT 3: revised tournament rules under ‘How will the Third Tournament work?’. Added note about double elimination structure.)
edited by James Sinclair on 2/26/2018
edited by James Sinclair on 2/28/2018
edited by James Sinclair on 3/6/2018

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Very exciting. I look forward to taking part.

A couple of questions:

  1. Why is Feducci’s Lance banned but not the Waxwail Knife? (I speak as a Waxwail owner)
  2. Any thoughts on how the single bout per round setup will affect people’s willingness to issue challenges? I wonder if a double bout per round might be better for that, though I accept that creates massive problems for dealing with draws.
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[quote=colinsapherson]V
2) Any thoughts on how the single bout per round setup will affect people’s willingness to issue challenges? I wonder if a double bout per round might be better for that, though I accept that creates massive problems for dealing with draws.[/quote]

I agree that this will be an issue that should be addressed. One idea might be to do it similar to the last SRS Tournament (3 points for win, 1 for draw) but do a round (2 bouts) each for Chess and Duels.

I just don’t know how you do a bracket system and keep it fair to both players (versus the challenging player being at a large disadvantage)

Thoughts?

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Come on, each of us bested Feducci and his lance at least once in the past! It ain’t that scary ;)

Now, seriously - what is Middleweight class in the Google.Doc?
edited by SirKwint on 2/25/2018

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[quote=colinsapherson]1) Why is Feducci’s Lance banned but not the Waxwail Knife? (I speak as a Waxwail owner)[/quote] Seconded. It was an absolute pain to get at Hallowmas, so I’m a little disappointed I won’t be able to make good use of it in the tournament.

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[quote=colinsapherson]Very exciting. I look forward to taking part.

A couple of questions:

  1. Why is Feducci’s Lance banned but not the Waxwail Knife? (I speak as a Waxwail owner)
  2. Any thoughts on how the single bout per round setup will affect people’s willingness to issue challenges? I wonder if a double bout per round might be better for that, though I accept that creates massive problems for dealing with draws.[/quote]
    The Lance ban was a request from the SRS founder, as it was considered too overpowered, and easy to get compared to a waxwail knife. The addition of chess in the Third Tournament, however, makes using a Lance somewhat less of an advantage, since it doesn’t help you at all in a chess match. I’ll gather feedback and consider revising this rule over the next couple of days.

You’re right about the challenged vs. challenger problem in a bracket tournament. I considered having each round of the bracket be best-out-of-three, but there’s too much potential for the entire tournament to grind to a halt from a just a couple of slow players playing three entire sparring bouts or chess games. The addition of chess should get contestants to diversity their fighting outfits and mitigate any advantage in selecting an attack twice (since using all four stats in the tournament instead of just two discourages mix/maxing for just two stats). I agree that it’s not perfect, but this tournament is an experiment in form, and I hope veteran players in particular won’t be discouraged from launching challenges.

We’ll see how this goes…maybe set up some sort of virtual coin toss for future tournaments to see who issues the challenge? Some other way to randomly decide who goes first? I’m open to ideas.

Originally there were going to be three Leagues: Lightweight, Middleweight, and Heavyweight. In the second tournament these ended up being consolidated due to the number of participants, so I ended up deciding on only two leagues for the third tournament. Thanks for noticing that in the document – I’ll edit out references to middleweight in the tournament rules over the next few days. If we get a lot of participants, middleweight might be used in the next tournament.

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The issue of the lance (finally find something it is useful for and you go and ban it) combined with the addition of chess makes this a case of &quotthanks, but no thanks&quot for me. If I’m signing up for a fighting tournament I don’t want to spend half my time playing bleedin’ chess.

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After considering player feedback, I’ve changed the rules to allow the use of Feducci’s Lance replicas. Feel free to adjust your declared Fighting Outfit on the SRS document up until the start of the Tournament. Just remember: a lance won’t help you win a game of chess!

Also, I have the proposed changes to the rules for your consideration:

  • Instead of each round of the bracket consisting of a single Lethal Sparring Bout or game of chess, each round will consist of TWO Lethal Sparring Bouts.[/li][li]Either player can initiate the first Lethal Sparring Bout, but for the second one, the OTHER contestant must initiate the Lethal Sparring Bout.[/li][li]If one contestant wins BOTH lethal sparring bouts, they advance to the next stage of the bracket. The loser goes to their place in the loser bracket if this is their first loss of a round, or is knocked out of the tournament if it’s their second time losing a round.[/li][li]If there is a tie in which each contestant wins one Lethal Sparring Bout, then the contestants must play two games of chess, with the same rules as above (i.e., one of the contestants must win BOTH games of chess to advance).[/li][li]If each contestant wins one game of chess, then they play two more Lethal Sparring Bouts, then two more games of chess, etc., until one of the contestants has won twice in a row.

This rule is similar to that used in previous SRS tournaments, and would eliminate the advantage presently enjoyed by the challenged party in a sparring bout or chess game. It will make the tournament take longer, but this does mean more of those sweet, sweet Sanguine Ribbons and Chess: Mastery of the Game points. This rule would also make it more important than ever for the loser of a Lethal Sparring Bout to not die, and for their victorious opponent to offer them healing, in order to keep the Tournament moving along.

Please share your thoughts on this proposed rule change here or in the Fallen London subreddit. Thanks for your patience as the SRS tweaks the tournament rules to create the fairest tournament experience possible.

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I like the rule change in concept, however; it is highly possible that an equally matched pairing might tie indefinitely. I think there should be some method to break ties. However, outside of a virtual “coin flip” I can’t think of what that could be.

I still think the idea of a round-robin style approach works better for this format (perhaps include the Sparring+Chess approach that you have above, but round-robin style)

Unfortunately, the limitations on the system make brackets difficult.

In any case I am confident that it will be fun, and the signup for this Tournament has been amazing.

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This sounds like a fun time, although with my artificially massive dangerous I feel like my participation would not be entirely in good faith. I’ll keep a close eye on the tournament as it progresses, though! Best of luck to all fighters~

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I wouldn’t let that stop you. Having one stat extremely high, just means that you are weak in other areas. I think that no matter how Dangerous you are, the collection of duelists in the SRS will give you a run for your First City Coins.
edited by karsus on 2/28/2018

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I would suggest some indication on the bracket for characters with Cider, so that opponents do not waste actions on sending healing.

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You really think that it might go indefinitely? I’d wager that there wouldn’t be a bracket longer than three matches. There’s too much RNG in dueling and chess and it’ll be the aforementioned &quotcoin flip&quot that you’re looking for. :)

I think that we should give this a chance. I discussed it with James at length, and have come to the belief that the change of format could be exciting and worthwhile. After all, we can’t know for sure until we test it, can we?

Oh, sweet tap-dancing baby Jesus, you’re right. I was thinking of skipping this Tournament, but there’s so much interest in it! I can’t not participate. And the SRS has grown with like 15 people in the past week. It brings a single manly tear to my eye…

There’s such indication in the Leaderboard sheet. But even if there wasn’t one, you can just tell the other person that you don’t need healing while you’re dueling. You do have the option to send some text after all. What’s more, most of y’all cider owners are pretty well-known. It’s likely that people will already know you are immortal. :)

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Perhaps, I just think there should be a plan for what happens. The plan can be as simple as &quotafter x number of draws, inform James of the impasse and he will flip a First City coin to see who wins &quot

Happy to try the new format, the bracket system should be amazing as long as we don’t hit too many roadblocks.
edited by karsus on 3/1/2018

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Thanks everyone, for your feedback and enthusiasm. I’ve updated the rules both here and on the SRS page, so that each round of the bracket now consists of two Lethal Sparring Bouts, both of which must be won by a single player to advance (and if both players win one, then they play two games of chess, etc., as described above). This should make things fairer for everyone. Hopefully we won’t have any indefinite ties. In that situation, I can tie-break if you really want, but there’s enough randomization in the system that I don’t think it will come to that.

There’s been a great response so far in signups: we now have 17 contestants signed up in the Heavyweight League! We still need a few more people in the Lightweight League, though, so signups will remain open for a while yet. If you know of any less-experienced Londoners who might be interested in participating, please spread the word.