And so, good bye: a note on departure

I have played FL for several years, occasionally with days between plays but more normally several times each day; first lured in by the resident ocelot, I have spent several hundred dollars on Exceptional Friendship (and more on Nex/Fate before that); I was a high-tier backer of Sunless Sea, wherein you may find Ewan’s Way adjacent to the sun’s entry. All of which to say: I’ve been here a while, and a strong supporter and customer. Stats have long been capped, every item I wanted acquired, most items on the usual ‘what to do when you run out of content?’ lists ticked off. I would often log into these forums, and tried to be an active and helpful member.

And so: I thought it might be worth a brief note explaining why FL became in the end a source of irritation rather than pleasure, and what has led me to the point where I have cancelled my Friendship and do not expect to play again for years, if ever. A small element is the usual grindiness: top-level characters have little to do that’s new or interesting. But that’s common to many games, and understood. The key element: Notability. A game mechanism that actively punishes any failure to devotedly grind in a given week, rather than simply having one fail to advance. Worse: one that requires very significant time, effort and expense to conquer - I’ve been Notability 15 for a long time - and equally strenuous efforts to regain if ever lost.

I’d dropped a couple of times from 15 to 14 in the past; pleas - not just from me! - for a ‘pause’ mechanism to allow a character to go into hiatus fell on deaf ears. OK, annoying but manageable. And then this last time… fell to 14, spent several weeks trying to regain enough Making Waves (48, I think, with maxed BDR), and falling just short every time when Time arrived. I realised that there was nothing enjoyable for me currently in FL and in fact it was a source of frustration and annoyance; worse, that there was no way to simply pause - it was an all-or-nothing choice to maintain a character for whom Notability was an important part of his personality, or abandon that character and leave**. So: I walked away about two weeks ago, and have not regretted it. There’s some significant sunk cost regret, sure: the biggest regret, though, is simply that it felt as though I was being punished for any lack of slavish diligence rather than being valued as a player or even as a customer. With luck, this’ll be helpful feedback - it should not be a surprise to FBG, but I hope that at least it’ll be a datapoint for one vanished player lost to them.

(I’ll try to remember to log in again in a week or so in case there are any Qs. Otherwise, though: hearty thanks to the many of you who gave help, friendship, moments of delight, well-crafted visiting cards - it’s been a trip.)

[**Do I think that everyone should have this same attitude to wards Notability? Maybe not; it may be that my character and I were outliers. I’m not aware, though, of other games or mechanisms that translate a hiatus into active harm rather than just failure-to-advance: it feels punitive and unfairly so, and a mechanism to force lever-pressing. I’m a behavioural neuroscientist by day :) and I recognise the signs of a Skinner box.]

Is it really that difficult to maintain Notability? Ever since I’ve hit 15 I haven’t had an issue with it. Then again I am addicted to my phone and compulsively check on London every 2 hours on the dot.

I would have thought that the Exceptional Stories each month, in addition to the modified/improved festivals each year would be enough to satiate veteran players as it has for me, but I suppose not.

Hopefully you will return, if not, good bye.

While I share your view on Notability being a pain in the ass, I don’t understand why you didn’t simply stop going after it - it has very few uses, after all. I dropped out of the whole Notability/Making Waves thing a while ago and never looked back. The game definitely feels a lot more relaxed for it.

I’ve been keeping it up myself only because I know it will be needed for the final level of profession and they haven’t come out yet/may never come out. I regret it, but I would regret working it up from 0 again a lot more.

(Sorry, no idea why that doubled!)
edited by MidnightVoyager on 3/31/2017

Is maintaining Notability 15 that bad? I’m sure getting there is, but every time my TtH hits my making waves are always above 15, even though I never try to grind them.

I don’t bother with notability for the above reasons. I get it when I need it.

[quote=Robin Alexander]
To be honest, I think the call for a &quotpause&quot button is a fantastic idea. 15 notability is a lot to lose - and a lot to regain - simply because you’re on an extended vacation, for example . . . a pause button would be an ideal way for a player not to be penalised for not playing, but also be unable to abuse the system and get any extra gain.[/quote]

A &quotpause&quot button would be nice, although it would require careful implementation to avoid gaming the system, e.g., by playing chicken with Time, the Healer. I feel like a reasonable compromise would be to ding players a point of Notability the first time they miss TtH and, on each subsequent TtH, check whether they’ve [logged in|spent any actions] since the previous TtH — a kind of auto-hiatus.

It’s pretty clear, from how it’s described in-game, that high Notability is intended to be something that’s difficult to acquire and maintain, but players with high Notability are a dedicated and (I’d imagine) relatively small fraction, and everybody needs to step away from things sometimes, even if it’s just to spend more time in the Big Blue Room.

(Full disclosure: I’m Notability 5, so this isn’t an issue for me, but I can imagine myself stressing out if I have to go on holiday during my quest to overcap Watchful.)

While I’ve personally tanked my main’s Notability for the reasons everyone listed above, I do think a &quotpause&quot button would be nice. Maybe an option such as &quotWork intensively on your reputation&quot, which would imply that you character is off doing things that maintain their MWs over the weeks, and aren’t capable of doing anything else. You click this button, leave for X amount of time, and when you come back, your only option is to pull your character from their stasis and go back to playing normally.

One of the issues I see with this method would be when, exactly, TtH would strike. Maybe a week after you’ve come back? But then people could abuse it to forever delay TtH.
edited by Slyblue on 3/30/2017

I think that the “pause” button could work if it locked a player out of xir account for an extended period of time. For instance, if one wanted to pause xir account, the “pause” would entirely lock the player out for a week. That way, it couldn’t be taken advantage of as a TtH-dodge.

There’s also the mechanical aspects to consider. How much would they have to rewrite in order to make such a feature functional? My guess is a great deal - much of it at the very heart of the game.

Some parts of it might not be that hard. To lock down the account, you could just make a Must storylet that doesn’t let you escape until your time on lockdown is up (a living story could be used for the timer). I don’t know if it’s possible to be excused from TtH, though.
Although it would probably be better to have something to suspend accounts from outside the game engine. Move the account out of the normal player database, and leave it in a sort of limbo. I make no guesses on what the difficulty of that might be though.
Edit: Oh, one of the big issues with this pause idea is it would make it way too easy to get a noman tattoo.
edited by Pumpkinhead on 3/31/2017

Count my voice amongst those calling for a &quotpause&quot function. It pains me to admit it, but the fragility of Notability is a nice feature of the game … it creates a trade-off decision about how to spend actions even late into the game. But those are choices to make when playing the game. It is grating the something that takes considerable grinding can be reduced or lost by circumstances in real life. Would enabling players to take two or three or four TtHs off a year be so bad for game play? I suspect that by the time Notability becomes a real concern, most players are already deep into FL … if they’ve gone this far in, they will likely stick around, even if they take a two or three week vacation.

I think this is the crux … in terms of code, how hard would a &quotpause&quot be to implement? (As a long(ish)-term player, I can’t help but observe that TtH can’t be that hard to stop … ;-) ) If it’s very hard, perhaps there are other work-arounds that could functionally be a pause: a few times a year a player could be allowed to spend Fate to buy Notability; likely there are others I’m not clever enough to think of.

In any event … pause please!
edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 3/31/2017

This is actually probably the easy part. TtH is effectively a living story; altering the trigger so that it checks for a certain quality (&quotIn Absentia,&quot shall we say) isn’t that hard mechanically. On the other hand, the amount of things that could blow up from messing with the TtH trigger are probably more than any programmer wants to think about.

More serious is the necessity (as others have mentioned) of freezing everything else in the game, so that people aren’t just using it as a TtH dodge. That is a monumental quantity of work, requiring a lot of rewriting of individual bits, and most fundamentally actions. I don’t think anyone is going to want to mess with the action coding, which has &quotgame-breaking&quot written all over it. Actually, making a Pause feature work touches a lot of potentially game-breaking bits. I don’t like thinking about it, and I’m on the outside. I’m pretty sure any Failbetter employees reading this thread are already developing migraines.

It can’t be that hard to keep a player from using actions, though. Lock them in a must storylet. Or send them to a location/setting where they can’t receive social actions or do anything. Sure, you’ll still regenerate actions right at the beginning, but you’ll only build up 20 (or 40), which isn’t really a huge deal.
edited by Pumpkinhead on 3/31/2017

In addition: make it so you can only lock your account for increments of 7 days. Then you can keep the same TtH day, and when you come out of hiatus you’ll have the same number of days til TtH as you did when you went in. Should keep people from gaming the system.

Apart from RP reasons, though, is there any reason to maintain Notability at a high level for extended periods of time? If the only benefits are RP and the occasional surprise package guarantee, perhaps a “pause” feature wouldn’t be worth the effort?

Also, I quite agree that the Noman tattoo would lose a lot of its difficulty. Automatic Noman death would have to be written into the pause feature, I guess. (Yet another thing!)

Yeah, honestly, this is only a problem for very top level players, so it’s probably not worth FBG’s effort. I’d rather have updates to Ambitions!

Are there reasons to constantly maintain really high notability (above 5 levels) besides the election festival? I’m in the process of gradually increasing notability to 15 or so so I can maximize my influence when the second election roles around. When I don’t want to deal with high notability (anytime I don’t have a goal involving it) I generally just trade it in for favorable circumstances so I don’t have to bother with Making Waves. Does having level 15 Notability bring some benefit I’m not aware of?

The must storylet has its own minefield, because you have to start worrying about how must storylets interact with one another. Also, you’d have to write out a separate storylet for each setting, as settings cannot share cards.

The separate area is actually not that bad an idea, and might solve lots of issues quite elegantly. I can’t guarantee there aren’t problems with it, but it’s the best thing I’ve heard so far. Good thought!

I thought you could make storylets appear in any setting? You definitely can in Storynexus, although who knows how similar the FL engine is to that anymore.
But thinking on it more, it’s irrelevant, because a new area/setting would be smarter.