An Update on Outfits

Fallen London
122

I would say here that I could never see Failbetter in the same light as the greedy corpos who don’t see the games industry as anything more than a cash cow.

But Failbetter is on the other end of the scale though: indie developers who are underestimating the complexities of running a service. Prioritizing thematics over technicals, for one.

After all, Failbetter should have noticed that many otherwise competently designed games with inventory systems let the player swap stuff on the fly, even if the player character seems like a walking armoire/armoury.

Now, there is another problem looming: increasingly more frequent and longer downtimes, and bugs with the locking script not going away when it should.

Maybe the recent update is not the source, but I expect that adding more fields to players’ accounts and having a script that checks the current locations of player characters just to activate a locking script is going to put a whole more strain on their servers.
edited by Rostygold on 8/2/2020

123

I don’t think there is a game with an equipment screen where I didn’t either select “Optimize” to let it auto-equip the best stuff, or curse the game for not having an “Optimize” button and forcing me to manually pick the best equipment. I like acquiring better equipment. I do not like either hunting through my inventory for the best equipment, or worse, having a situation where it’s not obvious which piece of equipment is best.

Even if you perfectly executed this “strategic equipment choice” thing, it would still be a game mechanic that I actively dislike. The more strategic you make it, the more I’ll dislike it, because I shouldn’t have to think about equipment once I’ve acquired it. That is anti-fun.

124

I know right?
It’s like &quotSpend too long in a given location before taking any sort of action? Server’s dead.&quot

In my case i tried to draw for two slots in my opportunity hand (first two cards out of six drew fine) while in the Bazaar Sidestreets, and the server crashed.

Last time I was trying to hit the onwards button for a card in the lab.
edited by Deathjack999 on 8/2/2020

125

You know, it’s kind of funny that this is being framed as a &quotmin/maxer&quot issue. Silly me-- I just assumed that swapping out gear to make up for lower base stats on the fly was Just How The Game Was Played. I mean, it’s such barebones gameplay to begin with I figured this was part of what made the game more of a game.

Locking gear makes this a min/max issue, not the other way around. Before, I didn’t really have to think so much or so technically about it-- if I saw a low success chance I’d pick through my gear to see if I could help myself out with the prizes I’d earned. And it was kind of fun in an RP sort of way, because it meant I’d look at my clothing items and think about what they made me look like and how that affected how characters perceived me. If the storylet was relatively easy I could spend most of my time being a fashionista wearing what fit my concept of my character and then substitute what I needed when I needed it if a random high skill check came up.

Now I have to create a gearset beforehand and do math and shuffle things around forever to figure out how balanced the whole thing is and even worry about spoiling myself or not so I don’t fail checks. And then I never look at my stuff again, don’t think about how it looks or reminisce about how I got it because I never go into my actual inventory to see it anymore once I’ve added it to the optimized set, and don’t dare waste outfit slots on pure RP because I know I’m going to screw up and have a bad set of gear equipped for a storylet. So this change is forcing me to think about optimization more than ever.
edited by Kaleestraza on 8/2/2020
edited by Kaleestraza on 8/2/2020

126

You know what I suggest…when the time comes we ALL go NORTH.

127

[quote=Deathjack999]You know what I suggest…when the time comes we ALL go NORTH.[/quote]I heard that’s where all the good beaches are.

128

[quote=Kaleestraza]You know, it’s kind of funny that this is being framed as a &quotmin/maxer&quot issue. Silly me-- I just assumed that swapping out gear to make up for lower base stats on the fly was Just How The Game Was Played. I mean, it’s such barebones gameplay to begin with I figured this was part of what made the game more of a game.

Locking gear makes this a min/max issue, not the other way around. Before, I didn’t really have to think so much or so technically about it-- if I saw a low success chance I’d pick through my gear to see if I could help myself out with the prizes I’d earned. And it was kind of fun in an RP sort of way, because it meant I’d look at my clothing items and think about what they made me look like and how that affected how characters perceived me. If the storylet was relatively easy I could spend most of my time being a fashionista wearing what fit my concept of my character and then substitute what I needed when I needed it if a random high skill check came up.

Now I have to create a gearset beforehand and do math and shuffle things around forever to figure out how balanced the whole thing is and even worry about spoiling myself or not so I don’t fail checks. And then I never look at my stuff again, don’t think about how it looks or reminisce about how I got it because I never go into my actual inventory to see it anymore once I’ve added it to the optimized set, and don’t dare waste outfit slots on pure RP because I know I’m going to screw up and have a bad set of gear equipped for a storylet. So this change is forcing me to think about optimization more than ever.
edited by Kaleestraza on 8/2/2020
edited by Kaleestraza on 8/2/2020[/quote]

Bingo. You nailed it.

Of course, replacing the current interface with OutfitLock 2200 ™ with its 14 (did I get that right, or are there more?) quality sliders that let you strategically anticipate how much of each quality you think you might need will take care of all the math and shuffling for you.*

*Once we eliminate the bug that produces the striped neon polka dot paisley outfits, that is.
edited by Snort on 8/2/2020

129

I haven’t read through the comments on this thread yet, but I came in to say that this isn’t working - I’m just coming in from not playing much regularly and wanted to play the “Patterned in Paisley” ES. I’m in my Lodgings at the moment and have been told in the story text to go to the possessions tab to put on a certain piece of clothing. Well guess what? I can’t. My wardrobe is locked. How ridiculous is that? This is certainly putting a damper on things, especially considering that for much of my day here in GMT+8, the server has been done. Eesh. Sad.

130

Try &quotPerhaps Not,&quot back out, and change, if you can. You’ll be changing clothing a lot in this story.
edited by Snort on 8/2/2020

131

I’ve avoided entering the Watchmaker’s Daughter house on mobile, where I do most of my playing these days, because I know that I have to prepare by fiddling with my equipment and I really don’t want to do that. One or two clicks to equip the optimal outfit is what I want.

And no, I can’t just set up one all-around balanced outfit to get the optimal effect. This series of challenges is Shadowy and Persuasive, but not Watchful after the first time, only Dangerous if you lack an obscure item which I happen to have, and has a surprise BDR requirement at the end. It is, in fact, the perfect illustration of why the new system is flawed.

132

First post here.
I have been playing Fallen London for about 4 years, and loved the experience. Even though the game mechanics are not the most spectacular, the lore and the atmosphere compensate many times for this - thanks to Failbetter for this!

I have also been a frequent visitor of this forum - in 30 years visiting different online communities, I have never seen one as well-behaved, helpful and welcoming as this one. I also appreciate the efforts members such as Rostygold, Optimatum and many others put into the wiki.
I have seen this community going through very controversial topics a year or so ago, with hardly anyone reacting inappropriately, even though the topic would have turned any other community into a trench war.
There are no trolls here.
In the current thread, the community has been able to self-police, convince a member that he went a bit too far, to which he voluntary agreed to take a step back. I have never seen anything like that before.

I am creating an account to reply to the original, which in my understanding, boils down to &quotRestricting outfit changes make the game better, and any member feedback of the contrary is not relevant.&quot
I strongly object to this.

This community is part of this game. Some have been investing a lot into it, and I think that this community deserves better.

When there was an outage earlier today, I noticed that the support email address was &quotfallenlondon-redesign&quot. I am not sure that Fallen London should be &quotredesigned&quot - it just has too much history, too much content that could be broken when trying to change basic game mechanics.

If Failbetter think that Fallen London should be &quotredesigned&quot, why not creating a different game? &quotFallen London - The Sixth City&quot, taking place during the 30s, the 50s or the 21st century, would be an obvious choice and would certainly be successful.

Why not preserving the current experience by implementing outfit restrictions as a &quothard mode&quot? That would make everybody happy, and you would be able to see who chooses it or not.

Regarding my personal opinion, Jolanda Swan’s post a bit earlier in this thread summarizes pretty well my feeling.
I love the new improvements with outfits. I have no problem with Failbetter requesting Fate for new outfits.
I would probably have paid Fate for this, if the outfit change restriction didn’t make everything so cumbersome.

I hope that Failbetter can solve this in a way that doesn’t alienate the community - that wouldn’t be a good thing for anyone.
And given how Failbetter has reacted in the past, I am sure that a good solution will be found.

133

I could be mistaken, but I believe that the &quotredesign&quot is in reference to the recent-ish webpage redesign, which was mainly an aesthetic thing rather than redesigning the actual gameplay.

134

[quote=falbert]There are no trolls here.
In the current thread, the community has been able to self-police, convince a member that he went a bit too far, to which he voluntary agreed to take a step back. I have never seen anything like that before.[/quote]It is impressive, yes, but not entirely unexplainable. After all, we’re not playing CounterStrike, we’re a bunch of people who enjoy reading well-written stories. I believe that the worst case scenario for a fight among us would be a pistol duel at the crack of dawn, followed by a return to the club for brandy and cigars.
edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/2/2020

135

Hey, FBG admins: Good response overall but I think you’ve missed one necessary component of fixing the user-experience problem:

Entrances to storylets that are outfit-locked should be tagged with a lock icon. So players can see it, pause, and ask themselves how they should prey for this.

136

I personally prefer the outfit lock. But I also don’t care about EPA, and I have only spent Fate on content and items that advance my character’s story rather than stats, and I have no desire to grind a ton for PP or the Cider.

I’m honestly glad the game has not stagnated under the &quottechnical debt&quot of constantly having to give old content and old ways of doing things top priority. And I personally have not seen any gameplay loops that are now impossible or grueling due to outfit limitations (through I also don’t really care about my EPA and I have not yet seen all of the end-game content).

But I do feel bad for the people who have spent lots of Fate, and especially Memories of a Tale, on items for the express purpose of maxing out a single stat, as some of those purchases may no longer work for them (two expensive paid companions with single stat boosts, for example, are now incompatible for a heist).

One option to help paying players with this change, would be to allow one free Reset of their Memories of a Tale purchases. The cash spent will be the same, and it will give anyone who got screwed by the update a chance to re-optimize their hardest-to-make-up purchases.

The peril of free-to-play games is that money is on the line whenever gameplay changes are made. But a Memories of a Tale reset would help with little downside.
edited by Six Handed Merchant on 8/2/2020

137

[quote=falbert]
Regarding my personal opinion, Jolanda Swan’s post a bit earlier in this thread summarizes pretty well my feeling.
I love the new improvements with outfits. I have no problem with Failbetter requesting Fate for new outfits.
I would probably have paid Fate for this, if the outfit change restriction didn’t make everything so cumbersome.

I hope that Failbetter can solve this in a way that doesn’t alienate the community - that wouldn’t be a good thing for anyone.
And given how Failbetter has reacted in the past, I am sure that a good solution will be found.[/quote]

I agree with your points (also with the kind words about the Forum community; I also think it’s a rare refuge of calm and politeness in the cesspool that is internet).

I can tolerate the increased clickiness of the new approach in most places (I also love the Bone Market, so I probably qualify as a weirdo).

The real problem is that it applies (and worryingly, may continue to apply) to non-repeatable content, including paid content. If there was a way to go &quotoh, I need Bizarre 5 for this option I need to do? Then let’s just leave and restart from the beginning,&quot this would merely be extremely annoying. Way it is, it can be potentially heartbreaking. E.g., I don’t know if there are any requirements for the option to become a Honorary Cat. But the idea of one being randomly locked out of this is Bad.

Another thing is the current slew of new abilities that mostly don’t overlap on equipment with the old ones, but actually do overlap on challenges in the locked stories. Considering many, many of these pieces of equipment which can be bought with actual money (Whitsun items, Mr Chimes’ Lost & Found, Election) are suddenly much less useful and/or convenient is unfortunate.
Personally, I have been the most stung by the Election Items. I shelled out an unreasonable amount of Fate for all of them, as I do what I can afford to support the game and the FBG team in these hard times. Only a day after the Election ends, I found out that my new Glasswork gloves, which I only bought to use in Parabolan hunts, have become basically useless, as they don’t increase Dangerous. Had this change been announced in advance, I would have used the Fate for something else. Needless to say, this makes me feel the tiniest bit cheated - which I don’t think has ever happened for me with FL.

IRL, I mostly live by the adage &quotwhy do something the easy way when you can do it the staggeringly complicated way&quot. Even I can see that this is probably not a good model to implement in a game that mostly focuses on the story.

I still have the hopes that you’re considering the situation and working on a good compromise, especially concerning the nonrepeatable and paid content. Please, please don’t just disregard your community, which in my experience is nothing but devoted and helpful. Do not forget that we love your game enough to devote a lot of time and effort to actually try and provide meaningful and thoughtful feedback. We’re really not whining children, and do not deserve to be treated as such (by neither the developers, nor other users).
edited by Aardvark on 8/3/2020

138

[quote=esrtweet]Hey, FBG admins: Good response overall but I think you’ve missed one necessary component of fixing the user-experience problem:

Entrances to storylets that are outfit-locked should be tagged with a lock icon. So players can see it, pause, and ask themselves how they should prey for this.[/quote]

I accidentally downvoted this instead of upvoting by accident and can’t undo it now, sorry!!

139

[quote=Kaleestraza][quote=esrtweet]Hey, FBG admins: Good response overall but I think you’ve missed one necessary component of fixing the user-experience problem:

Entrances to storylets that are outfit-locked should be tagged with a lock icon. So players can see it, pause, and ask themselves how they should prey for this.[/quote]

I accidentally downvoted this instead of upvoting by accident and can’t undo it now, sorry!![/quote]

I’ve done this as well. Pity one can’t just vote the other way to cancel it. Is it a JitBit thing, and not FBG?

140

First things first: the outfit-change gadget on the main page is an excellent time-and-click-saving addition. (Aside: I agree there should be more free outfits; enough for at least the four basic stats, one balanced-stat outfit, and a couple of sciences/BDR getups. Paid outfit slots should probably take the total to at least a dozen, and I can easily think of uses for fifteen off-hand.)

Otherwise… Ouch. I understand what FBG were trying to do here, and I can see the possibilities presented by the idea of outfit locks under specific circumstances and with plenty of warning for the player.

But the current implementation is painfully bad; sometimes literally, given my wrist problems. I seem to have done a huge amount of extra clicking over the last couple of days because I had to back out of single-card storylets in order to change outfit because I’d forgotten some detail. Then I was unable to play at all for a huge chunk of Sunday (if there was some unrelated server problem, fair enough, but I saw/see no signs of that).

When I got back in, I started on “Unto Dust”, which warned me that I’d be unable to leave the storylet while discussing the arrangements for the funeral - fair enough. Except that I was actually unable to leave the storylet (or change outfit) for the discussion, dinner on two separate nights, the funeral itself, and an explicitly-several-days-long period afterwards. Partly that’s a problem with the story (I shouldn’t have been locked in like that), but the new outfit locks made it even more absurd. Mechanically this didn’t present a problem for me (as a POSI with all stats over 200); thematically it was actually rather a lot more ridiculous than changing outfits multiple times during a party.

Then I thought about my habit of leaving Exceptional Stories to do when my mood is right. I’m so, SO, glad that I did “Paisley” a couple of weeks ago - great fun, and the continual gear-swapping to be wearing exactly the right amount of Paisley for the situation was very entertaining. Trying to do it now would be an utter nightmare, and I’d almost certainly have just given up forever (again, RSI) - even if the locking system worked properly rather than (as is actually the case) randomly getting stuck and not letting me change outfits for hours at a time when I’m wandering Fallen London doing everyday stuff.

So please, FBG, roll this back for now and rethink. If you want it for new content, then re-introduce it carefully and ONLY for new content that’s designed with it in mind. Then, if you’re sure it’s the right thing, go through existing storylets one at a time and make careful deliberate decisions to flag them as either outfit-locked or not.

I love Fallen London; I’ve had so much fun here (and spent more money on it than on any other game ever, because I wanted to support it). This change is (again: literally, physically) painfully bad.

141

Actually, one more thing: I’ve always enjoyed going into new FL content blind, role-playing my character learning their way around this strange world they’ve found themselves in. As a result of the new system I’ve found myself going to the wiki and looking up things I’m about to do to check whether I’m wearing the outfit for the skillchecks I can’t predict.
I’ve always played FL for the story, and this change is making me spoil the story for myself, because the alternative is that the new mechanic might lock me out of one-time chances and permanently affect my progress in non-repeatable content like my in-the-final-stretch ambition.

It’s making the game so much less fun, in so many ways.