[quote=Senthe]And since I’m new and not yet fully blinded by love for Fallen London content, nor very attached to the franchise, I just want to voice that this situation and the following statement made me doubt Failbetter:
as game designers, when they decided to make RNG challenges more complicated and annoying instead of consistently playing to their strengths - the narrative;
as product managers, when they didn’t test the changes with players, implemented them anyway, and then left them on production despite literally admitting that they are not complete;
as community managers, when they decided to ignore the most active and engaged part of their community for the sin of being the most active and engaged;
as web developers, when they clearly implemented some code that is buggy and at the very least overloads their servers;
as businesspeople, giving a PR statement in which they admit they didn’t build this right because they don’t have the necessary resources??? as if this is a good excuse for delivering a bad experience to your users??? I’m honestly stumped by this part.[/quote]
This. Sadly. All of this.
I am blinded by love for Fallen London and very attached to the franchise - but I can’t deny that these points are accurate from what we’ve seen this week.
And, since whole that translation part begs for accusations of hypocrisy - I am quitting the game starting today, freezing all my account activities. Will come back in a month, to see what’s changed. Maybe.
I can make a point too, you see.
I must reiterate that I think this is a poor decision.
There is an entire thread dedicated to players enumerating to you all the problems the equipment lock causes, and the reasons it is a bad idea.
If you are not prepared to review 10 years of content to see if something new breaks it, perhaps you should not be adding something that messes with it so thoroughly.
I do not play Fallen London with a spreadsheet, optimizing for the greatest benefit. I play for the story, and to me game mechanics should always be in service of the story, or at least not hinder it.
I have played the Watchmaker’s Daughter story, the story which was meant to showcase the new system, and found nothing about it that required the system, nor was in any way enhanced by it.
(Also, what’s with the argument of "Well, all the people who talk to us about this have expressed near-unanimous displeasure, but we’re going to imagine there are lots of people who like it, despite having no evidence.")
[quote=Alexander Feld]Also, what’s with the argument of "Well, all the people who talk to us about this have expressed near-unanimous displeasure, but we’re going to imagine there are lots of people who like it, despite having no evidence."[/quote]I was really willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt, them being worked out of their minds and everything, I really was. But now it just seems like a case of someone not wanting to admit that their idea was pretty much terrible in every way.
This whole new announcement is a PR nightmare. "We heard you! We just care more about people who don’t talk." edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/1/2020
To be perfectly fair: they have access to server-side workings and can tally statistics, including, probably, the frequency of changing outfits for each player.
Although statistics itself is a tricky business. For starters, there’s a rather popular playstyle when a person visits once a week to collect weekly reward, or even rarer. It can be expected that these people will change their outfits close to never. And I think not small part of actual playerbase (I mean number of not-deleted accounts on server) does subscribe to it.
Another point is alts, where character is made to accomplish a specific task, usually alternative branch of some story, and thus usually stays optimised for this task alone.
I did both, so it’s not pulled from nowhere. edited by Aro Saren on 8/1/2020
[quote=Baron Lagavulin][quote=Alexander Feld]Also, what’s with the argument of "Well, all the people who talk to us about this have expressed near-unanimous displeasure, but we’re going to imagine there are lots of people who like it, despite having no evidence."[/quote]I was really willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt, them being worked out of their minds and everything, I really was. But now it just seems like a case of someone not wanting to admit that their idea was pretty much terrible in every way.
This whole new announcement is a PR nightmare. "We heard you! We just care more about people who don’t talk." edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/1/2020[/quote]
Someone compared the response to Blizzard’s to…well, pretty much everything regarding World of Warcraft really. It is uncomfortably accurate the more I think about it.
[quote=Aro Saren]To be perfectly fair: they have access to server-side workings and can tally statistics, including, probably, the frequency of changing outfits for each player.
Although statistics itself is a tricky business. For starters, there’s a rather popular playstyle when a person visits once a week to collect weekly reward, or even rarer. It can be expected that these people will change their outfits close to never.[/quote]
Statistics on outfit changing won’t reveal a) if people actually like the lock, b) how broken the feature is right now anyway. Interpreting such vague statistics is mostly guesswork. edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/1/2020
[quote=Baron Lagavulin][quote=Aro Saren]To be perfectly fair: they have access to server-side workings and can tally statistics, including, probably, the frequency of changing outfits for each player.
Although statistics itself is a tricky business. For starters, there’s a rather popular playstyle when a person visits once a week to collect weekly reward, or even rarer. It can be expected that these people will change their outfits close to never.[/quote]
Statistics on outfit changing won’t reveal a) if people actually like the lock, b) how broken the feature is right now anyway. Interpreting such vague statistics is mostly guesswork. edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/1/2020[/quote]
I mean, at least they can see how often people do change outfits. Presumably, to some point in the past long before this lock was introduced.
Liking is entirely different matter, yes.
I don’t know what Failbetter expected when they chose that somewhat paternalist tone to tell players who expressed their opinions, that were always welcomed before, that said opinions weren’t that relevant because they didn’t represent the majority. But something that stands out to me if that if, as implied, a majority of players aren’t using outfits that much, it stands to reason that they’ve been made unlockable by sizable amounts of Fate because it wouldn’t affect said majority of players anyway. I suspect those people mostly aren’t Exceptional Friends and spend little Fate, though I obviously don’t have the data on this. So, why not get people who already pay to pay more? They can afford it, and they’re the ones who want it.
In the interest of full disclosure, I don’t have an EF subscription and have had no interest in getting one. I buy Fate occasionally, but that’s it.
Ok guys, I think we might need to take a collective breath and step back for a minute. Failbetter are not some evil overlords who enact their every whim without concern for our feedback. They’ve always listened to us in the past, and I think their response to our concerns in this case is reasonable. They’ve agreed to address what I think many of us consider the largest problem, the inability to change outfits in storylets that you can freely leave. For me, and it appears many of the other forum members who have commented, this is the part of the update that’s the most tedious and frustrating. I think it’s only fair to give them a chance to enact the changes that they’ve promised and see how it turns out before we condemn outfit-locking completely. I admit that it would be nice if they’d roll back this feature until these changes were made, but I suppose the next few weeks will give me some time to get used to managing my outfits more carefully.
The other complaint that I’ve seen most often is that it makes skill checks even more difficult in places like Parabola, where you need a combination of, for example, Glasswork and Dangerous while tracking down animals. (I can’t speak for early or mid-game areas because it’s been too long since I’ve played them.) I’d say the action costs here are already pretty steep, and I understand (even if I don’t completely agree with) the negative response to making an already-difficult challenge harder. I hope that this could be balanced by adjusting the difficulty of skill checks in areas where outfit-locking is preserved, especially in any older areas that were designed many years ago. Again, I think it’s worth waiting to see what Failbetter comes up with before we all continue to panic.
I do want to add that I hope outfits won’t be locked at all in non-repeatable areas like the ambitions or fate-locked stories. I remember many of the skill checks in Heart’s Desire requiring either high watchful or persuasive, and I would have been very disappointed if my choices in such a monumental storyline for my character were limited by the clothes I happened to be wearing when I entered. I’m hopeful for this because of the first goal, "Allowing us to create new gameplay challenges that are more varied, strategic and replayable." Seeing as one-time storylets wouldn’t be replayable anyway, I’m optimistic that this will be enacted.
I’d say that outfit locking (in moderation!) could certainly achieve the first two goals and add a new element to gameplay that I think would even be fun. And once universal locking is rolled back, the other new features like additional outfits and the story menu drop-down will certainly help goal #3.
Perhaps the implementation was a bit rushed, and I think we all would have appreciated some heads up or beta testing, but for a small team who is working on four(!) projects at once, I can easily see how resources may be stretched a bit thin and things may have been cut in favor of getting new content out to us without a delay of many months. It’s also worth considering current world circumstances – while we as players may have more time on our hands to play through all the new content, I’d bet that updates are significantly more difficult for Failbetter, who’s probably still working from home and possibly juggling child care as well. I do think it was a mistake to roll out outfit-locking universally with no notice, but I think we all need to react with a little more compassion and understanding and less anger and trust that Failbetter’s history of listening to their player base and creating games that we all love will ensure that the final result will be something that both allows us to continue having fun playing a game that we are clearly passionate about while also enabling them to create new and exciting ways for us to experience Fallen London.
The problem here is mostly for people like us who like to support FB either by purchasing Fate or EF subscriptions. We do this not because we have to, of course, but because we like what these people are doing and believe they’re worth our money.
This, however, is feeling like we paid them for us to be beta testers… edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/1/2020
I have to say that having my outfits locked except in very specific areas is getting on my nerves something fierce.
edit: I’m fine with paying for extra outfit slots though, it seems like a fair earner. But the way outfits are constantly locked, no. I can’t deal with it. :( For example, why can I not change outfits at Ealing Gardens? I own the station. edited by Ruddertail on 8/1/2020
[quote=Ruddertail]I have to say that having my outfits locked except in very specific areas is getting on my nerves something fierce.
edit: I’m fine with paying for extra outfit slots though, it seems like a fair earner. But the way outfits are constantly locked, no. I can’t deal with it. :( For example, why can I not change outfits at Ealing Gardens? I own the station. edited by Ruddertail on 8/1/2020[/quote]
I think you may be experiencing a bug there - you should be able to change outfits at Ealing Gardens. Try refreshing your game window.
[quote=Ruddertail]I have to say that having my outfits locked except in very specific areas is getting on my nerves something fierce.
edit: I’m fine with paying for extra outfit slots though, it seems like a fair earner. But the way outfits are constantly locked, no. I can’t deal with it. :( For example, why can I not change outfits at Ealing Gardens? I own the station.
[/quote]
Try refreshing the page? There’s a bug keeping outfits locked in areas where they shouldn’t be.
[quote=Diptych][quote=Ruddertail]I have to say that having my outfits locked except in very specific areas is getting on my nerves something fierce.
edit: I’m fine with paying for extra outfit slots though, it seems like a fair earner. But the way outfits are constantly locked, no. I can’t deal with it. :( For example, why can I not change outfits at Ealing Gardens? I own the station. edited by Ruddertail on 8/1/2020[/quote]
I think you may be experiencing a bug there - you should be able to change outfits at Ealing Gardens. Try refreshing your game window.[/quote]
That does indeed work, thank you.
Though that’s both a relief and… well, a bit of an issue!
[quote]The problem here is mostly for people like us who like to support FB either by purchasing Fate or EF subscriptions. We do this not because we have to, of course, but because we like what these people are doing and believe they’re worth our money.
This, however, is feeling like we paid them for us to be beta testers… edited by Baron Lagavulin on 8/1/2020[/quote]
I don’t feel this way (though I’m sorry that you do!). My view is that it’s not as if this affected paying players any more so than everyone else, and we actually got 2 bonus outfit slots (though they aren’t particularly useful at the moment). Having gone through multiple years where very little new content was added outside of the monthly ES, I much prefer the current state of things. A dynamic game, even at the cost of some inconvenience while new features are debugged and balanced, is a lot more fun than repeating the same actions for weeks on end to grind echos while waiting for the next month’s story. It was all the new content that brought me back to FL and encouraged me to re-subscribe after going on a hiatus due to lack of new content (and other RL reasons), and I’m more than happy to continue my subscription to support all of the recent attention that FL’s been getting, despite a few hiccups here and there.
[quote=Kloxe]Having gone through multiple years where very little new content was added outside of the monthly ES, I much prefer the current state of things. A dynamic game, even at the cost of some inconvenience while new features are debugged and balanced, is a lot more fun than repeating the same actions for weeks on end to grind echos while waiting for the next month’s story. It was all the new content that brought me back to FL and encouraged me to re-subscribe after going on a hiatus due to lack of new content (and other RL reasons), and I’m more than happy to continue my subscription to support all of the recent attention that FL’s been getting, despite a few hiccups here and there.[/quote]Yes, I agree with that. I was gone for three years because of lack of new content (besides the ES stories - but I didn’t stick around just for those). The game was stale. And I like what they’re doing now, and most of the new content (as with everyone, I don’t really like the Bone Market, rather I don’t like the way it plays). And I appreciate all the work that’s being done. But most of us are here for the stories, not to test gameplay. Especially in a game where gameplay takes third place. And when your fan base tells you that it’s not working and it’s making things hell, you don’t say "okay, okay, we’ll tweak it some, IN A FEW WEEKS". You just roll it back, let the people enjoy themselves, and WHEN and IF you got a proper version out, re-employ.
Now I’m imagining how thoroughly Flyte is offended and scandalised - how we have the gall to complain about their decisions! How utterly unfair! Preposterous! Mommy, when I shit in their sandbox they don’t want to play with me, bwa-ah!
I mean, at least they can see how often people do change outfits. Presumably, to some point in the past long before this lock was introduced.
Liking is entirely different matter, yes.[/quote]
But then there’s still an issue about why people change outfits. As an example, people who have been around for a while may have stats that are relatively high, so outfit changes are only useful for difficult challenges. That’s certainly the case with me. But I still change outfits when I need to, and making this more awkward isn’t conducive to game enjoyment.
So … maybe there’s a sizeable Fifth Column of annoyance hidden in the Silent Majority?
But seriously, data is only as useful as one’s ability to interpret it. Without having some fairly sophisticated collection and ability to understand data, my guess is that FBG doesn’t really have a handle on outfit changing.
On a related note, someone (I can’t find it now) said something earlier about how wonderful the support people have been during the last 6 months or so. That’s been my experience as well. If I could send them ALL the Rats on a String, I would. edited by Snort on 8/1/2020 edited by Snort on 8/1/2020
I mean, at least they can see how often people do change outfits. Presumably, to some point in the past long before this lock was introduced.
Liking is entirely different matter, yes.[/quote]
But then there’s still an issue about why people change outfits. As an example, people who have been around for a while my have stats that are relatively high, so outfit changes are only useful for difficult challenges. That’s certainly the case with me. But I still change outfits when I need to, and making this more awkward isn’t conducive to game enjoyment.
So … maybe there’s a sizeable Fifth Column of annoyance hidden in the Silent Majority?
But seriously, data is only as useful as one’s ability to interpret it. Without having some fairly sophisticated collection and ability to understand data, my guess is that FBG doesn’t really have a handle on outfit changing.
On a related note, someone (I can’t find it now) said something earlier about how wonderful the support people have been during the last 6 months or so. That’s been my experience as well. If I could send them ALL the Rats on a String, I would. edited by Snort on 8/1/2020[/quote]
Yes, that’s exactly what I was talking about in the first comment about statistics (you’re quoting the second one). You have non-attending people, twink accounts and whatever else. Well, you CAN devise a statistical design that discerns that, at least parts, probably, but most people from my lab (not in-game, I work in real science research), including myself, would fail first 3-4 attempts to do so, and catch that only months later. edited by Aro Saren on 8/1/2020 edited by Aro Saren on 8/1/2020