Amassing an Echo fortune...

Hello fellow Neath-dwellers!

Recently, I have found myself with nothing to do in the Neath as I wait (ever so patiently) for the content walls to be lifted by our glorious Masters. There are a few items and lodgings of note that I would like to procure while I pass the time, which will require a prodigious amount of Echoes. I have been providing master-classes in etiquette at Mahogany Hall, but I was wondering if there are more productive methods that would provide a higher yield of Echoes. I presume that many other denizens of the Neath would have similar problems as they hit the content wall, and yet, I have not found anything on the subject.

Taking the “attend a funeral” option at the end of every Velocipede Squad cycle is quite profitable, I’ve found. I did the maths and I think it averages out to about 1.2 echoes per action.

If you’re really bored, you can always try seeking the Name. :)

edited by Little The on 1/21/2012

1.23 Echoes/action, actually. It’s reliable and also the most profitable (by a narrow margin) non-Fate method in London. You should get Blackmail, gossip and identities, and if you’re later able to exchange the incendiary gossip for further identities via a certain opportunity card, you should be doing fairly nicely.

Hm. Which is more profitable, educating Lyme or attending the funeral? Right now I’m doing the former, but your reminder about swapping Incendiary Gossip makes me reconsider.

Attending the funeral is most certainly the better of the two. Lyme is both unreliable and slightly less valuable too. Any gains from the swapping gossip card are additional, not counted as part of it.

Let’s say I’ve spent my time unlocking pretty much all fate locked content. What’s the most reliable/profitable method then?

And thanks for the tip, I’m going to finish off my time with Lyme and move onto…funerals.

The most valuable Fated content is to be involved in the Soul Trade, and to sell souls. Naturally, you need a decent source for this, but since you’re already conducting Masterclasses in Etiquette, you’re almost certainly able to handle Unfinished Business in Spite. Be warned, this is an exceptionally Heartless path to go down, and the devils will love you for it.

Aww crap, it looks like I, umm, “completed” the Velocipede Squad line of content. Whoops. And I’m also too adverse to selling souls to the devils on account of me losing to and re-obtaining my soul, and have obtained a timepiece already. Guess I’m stuck teaching to clay men then eh?

It’s the non-Fate part of the Velocipede Squad that pays off in valuable goods. The Fate part gives gives a different kind of reward. Head to Ladybones Road and use the regular On The Velocipede Squad actions until you reach the end of the cycle. Then claim your reward.

According the the developers, the two new Fate-locked branches of the Classes in Etiquette storyline are quite profitable. I haven’t unlocked them yet though, so I don’t know for certain.

Do you have a ship? If you have the Swift Zee-Clipper, the Scientific Expedition storylines are very profitable. I haven’t done the maths, but I remember generally getting an average of ~120 pence per normal action, and then over 10 echoes’ worth for the conclusion on top of that. You have to sail the Unterzee again every time you complete a cycle, though, which is why I’m stuck with the Velocipede Squad until I can amass enough Fate to get a Clipper.
edited by Little The on 1/22/2012

I already completed the Fate part, and none of the Velocipede Squad actions are there anymore.

[quote=Little The]According the the developers, the two new Fate-locked branches of the Classes in Etiquette storyline are quite profitable. I haven’t unlocked them yet though, so I don’t know for certain.

Do you have a ship? If you have the Swift Zee-Clipper, the Scientific Expedition storylines are very profitable. I haven’t done the maths, but I remember generally getting an average of ~120 pence per normal action, and then over 10 echoes’ worth for the conclusion on top of that. You have to sail the Unterzee again every time you complete a cycle, though, which is why I’m stuck with the Velocipede Squad until I can amass enough Fate to get a Clipper.
edited by Little The on 1/22/2012[/quote]
Doesn’t sailing the Unterzee offset the gain in echos you get from scientific expeditions? Also, I did make a fair bit of money from the Fate-locked classes, but I can’t justify paying fate for echoes.

They’re all still there for me, and my stats are not only capped, but increased by all manner of equipment. I know a number of others for whom they are present too. Ah… Perhaps your final choice in the Fate part was such that you decided to have nothing more to do with them. That’s a distinct possibility.
As for the Scientific Expeditions, I seem to remember running some figures together some time ago and learning that the income in terms of Echoes was distressingly low. You have to take the time at sea into account, of course, and I believe that I used a 25 action trip as a basis for calculations. I can certainly do somewhat faster than that in my clipper, but not everyone has one. I don’t remember the exact number, but I do recall that it averaged to somewhere in the sixties for pennies. In other words, quite literally half what one could get elsewhere. Possession of a clipper would easily improve this average income by an entire penny, and on a lucky trip, perhaps even two!
No, the Scientific Expeditions are a very poor source of income.

[quote] I don’t remember the exact number, but I do recall that it averaged to somewhere in the sixties for pennies. In other words, quite literally half what one could get elsewhere. Possession of a clipper would easily improve this average income by an entire penny, and on a lucky trip, perhaps even two!
No, the Scientific Expeditions are a very poor source of income.[/quote]


D: That’s unfortunate, I really liked the expeditions. What about Hunter’s Keep, though?


And Kwogger, if you can’t access the VS stories anymore, you can always try the Foreign Office (I remember it giving about as much as the Squad stories) – though that costs 100 Clues and an action every time you visit…

The expeditions are okay, but once you have your pet, and you’re reinstated at the University (assuming this is relevant) and you have all the Collaborated Research that you need, well, the only reason to redo them is to reread the text, and there are only so many times that you can do that with such a low payoff.
Hunter’s Keep is good, and a rather nice source of Clues, Whispers, Silk Scraps and various other items. It also provides relief from Wounds and Nightmares. It’s not possible to give a good Echo estimate of your income, as firstly you need to overcome the effective penalty that you’ll have from the journeys there and back; Secondly, the first cycle through the island sets things up for the subsequent ones; and Thirdly, the thing that bumps up your income is the rare result from the well at the end. Without that third, the average would be passable, but with it, it becomes respectable.
So, in order to make money at Hunter’s Keep, it is essential that you stay there for a significant length of time. A day is not enough. You would need to be there for a fair number of them. Myself, I consider a week to be the minimum to make it worth my time. At the end, you should come away with a pleasing quantity of goods.
The income is good, although as I said, it’s rather difficult to estimate exactly how good. Certainly not so noticeably higher than anything else. But with some luck on your side getting the rare at the end of the cycles, you might do well.

Indeed, I do believe I may have foolishly decided to not associate with the Velocipede Squad at the very end. Unfortunately, I did not have the forethought to record precisely why in my journals.

I would return to the Foreign Office, but the price of entry has been increased to 3 Compromising Documents. A bit of a hefty fee, but I guess I’ll probably pay it regardless though. I’ll report back if the yield is good (guess I should actually write down and calculate this…).

I would like to go to Hunter’s Keep, but the rare payoff from the well I’d rather keep a small stockpile of instead of selling. That’s next on my to do list actually (after I get my reservation at Bethlehem Hotel).

Unless anything else has changed, the Ministry Run at the Foreign Office averages less than 1.2E. It actually IS 1.2E, but then you have to remember that it cost you to enter in the first place, which drops it a little. Again, the longer you’re there, the less of a loss it was. Incidentally, this is the best source of Proscribed Texts in the game at present, so if you want those, this is excellent.
For cash, it’s okay, but not the best. However, there are a number of goods that this is a useful source for - Implications, Compromising Documents, the aforementioned Proscribed Texts and it’s also a reliable source of Blackmail Material.

Hmm, since I’m still trying to finish the Tournament of Lilies, I guess I should stick to etiquette training until I’m done then eh? It also seems that the devs have been rebalancing, so the specific Echo yields are changing (I just ended up w/ 700 Glim instead of 1k Glim at the end of teaching Lyme).

[quote=travellersside]
As for the Scientific Expeditions, I seem to remember running some figures together some time ago and learning that the income in terms of Echoes was distressingly low. You have to take the time at sea into account, of course, and I believe that I used a 25 action trip as a basis for calculations. I can certainly do somewhat faster than that in my clipper, but not everyone has one. I don’t remember the exact number, but I do recall that it averaged to somewhere in the sixties for pennies. In other words, quite literally half what one could get elsewhere. Possession of a clipper would easily improve this average income by an entire penny, and on a lucky trip, perhaps even two!
No, the Scientific Expeditions are a very poor source of income.[/quote]

We must have used different numbers or methods for our calculations. It’s true that I didn’t come out with a result superior to the Funeral mentioned elsewhere, but my findings weren’t nearly so grim as less than 70 pence per action.

I tracked some numbers on my recent Zee voyage, and it took me 24 actions in my Zubmarine. 5 Prudent Zailing, 4 Killing Wind, 7 Fleet of Truth, 2 Huge Terrible Beast, 2 Fair Zailing, 1 Submerge, 2 Corvette, and 1 action to arrive at the island. With better luck getting Fair Zailing, or some luck with Risky Sailing, I imagine that could be shortened. Since 500 Notes gets you about 50 Echoes, I went with the assumption that they’re worth 10 pence each (though of course they aren’t interchangeable, and you still need them in increments of 500). That means the Zee voyage earned 11.1 echoes, and the 20 actions on Corpsecage Island yielded 38.8 echoes. It’s true that there will be another journey to get home that will make things less profitable, but that particular set of Journey + Island would appear to have yielded 1.13 echoes per action. Did I go wrong somewhere in that math?

As I’m at work and typing in a break, I’m not in a position to retrieve or duplicate my calculations. However, the trip that I used assumed:
Journey out, visit to island, another journey, another visit and a journey home.
This was to ensure a larger supply of notes and to reduce the weighting of the journeys. Also, as I said, I used a 25 action journey, knowing that with some luck (and/or a zee-clipper), you can do better. Still, as your own used a 24 action journey, it’s obviously a fairly realistic ‘standard journey time’.
It is necessary to factor in the journey home, and I’ll note that 7 Fleets of Truth are significantly higher than normal - perfectly doable with patience, but not representative of a typical trip (at least in my experience. I tend more to 3/4)

I see - only two visits to the islands would certainly make that extra trip home count against the value a lot more. I figured on visiting each island several times before coming home, which makes that last journey hurt the average a bit less.

I kept track of my next journey as well - due to outside issues I was not able to use opportunities as much, and it still clocked in at 24 actions, so that does seem like a reasonable number to use. Certainly the smaller number of Fleet of Truths hurt the profitability, though.