I’m preparing for my first-ever Archeological Expedition in the Forgotten Quarters. Or at least, I’m preparing to PREPARE…
There are several ways to gain supplies for the expedition. Strong backs from the docks, or from the clay-men’s hidden quarters. Payments rendered in coin or in secrets. I assume somebody’s already run the numbers - what’s the cheapest, most economical way to accumulate supplies for an expedition?
Well, as far as I’m aware, the most economical option is to trade in favors with the Docks. If you’ve built up a supply of Whispered Secrets, though, that’s also a good option, as there aren’t many better uses for them.
Money isn’t so good an option, and Appalling Secrets increases your nightmares. Strong-backed labor is expensive, and you probably don’t have access to any of its sources yet, anyhow.
Hmm… yes, drawing on dockside favors DOES seem eminently economic. I’ve got a large collection of Tickets from various carnival-related Opportunities, so I can use those to rebuild my dockside connections after expending them. Of course, that WILL use up an awful lot of Actions, and gain me nothing BUT connection. I wonder if there’s a more efficient method…
[quote=BlakeTheDrake]I’m preparing for my first-ever Archeological Expedition in the Forgotten Quarters. Or at least, I’m preparing to PREPARE…
There are several ways to gain supplies for the expedition. Strong backs from the docks, or from the clay-men’s hidden quarters. Payments rendered in coin or in secrets. I assume somebody’s already run the numbers - what’s the cheapest, most economical way to accumulate supplies for an expedition?[/quote]
In terms of Echoes per supply, buy one engraved pewter tankard (which gives points connected the docks for some glim), grind up to connected the docks 15 or greater and trade the connections and rostygold for (3 per exchange) supplies. on the other hand, i hear that method has one of the worst supplies per action rates. life is full of tradeoffs, but it’s probably optimal for you. (and the tankard sells back for about 3.5 echoes less than you spent on it.) if you don’t have the money yet and aren’t willing to wait, i think whispered secrets are pretty good too in terms of money. straight up cash is easier, and probably cheaper than buying whispered secrets for this, but only gives 1 supply per 2.5 echoes you spend, while 2 echoes of whispered secrets either offers two supplies- if you’re lucky- or one supply and a map scrap- meaning worst case, you spend 2 echoes worth of goods and 1 action for 1 supply and 10 pence worth of goods.
edited by Grenem on 3/16/2015
[quote=Rackenhammer]Well, as far as I’m aware, the most economical option is to trade in favors with the Docks. If you’ve built up a supply of Whispered Secrets, though, that’s also a good option, as there aren’t many better uses for them.
Money isn’t so good an option, and Appalling Secrets increases your nightmares. Strong-backed labor is expensive, and you probably don’t have access to any of its sources yet, anyhow.[/quote]
correction- he could have access to the clay quarters, i know i did back then. which doesn’t change that it’s not worth it, but it is worth establishing.
edited by Grenem on 3/16/2015
I do, in fact… but I do not think I have access to all the GOODS needed to obtain Strong-Backed Labor there. So it’s really just another sort of ‘unattainable’.
Anyway, the bit about the Pewter Tankard is very interesting. I’d assumed those ‘increases connection’ purchases from the Bazaar were consumable, one-time deals… if it’s reusable and only consumes easily-gained resources, well, then it’s another matter! I DO think I have the money for it… and I assume using it is much more action-efficient than using the Carnival.
EDIT: Ouch… I’d forgotten just HOW much those things cost. Yeah, no, can’t afford it… in no small part due to my recent spate of equipment-purchases. Ah well.
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 3/16/2015
http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten_Quarter_Expeditions
Lookie there! Hiring zailors are generally the best way, unless you want to be ~popular~ with them and keep your connection. The Strong-Backed Labour are good only if you get them from Professions.
I do, in fact… but I do not think I have access to all the GOODS needed to obtain Strong-Backed Labor there. So it’s really just another sort of ‘unattainable’.
Anyway, the bit about the Pewter Tankard is very interesting. I’d assumed those ‘increases connection’ purchases from the Bazaar were consumable, one-time deals… if it’s reusable and only consumes easily-gained resources, well, then it’s another matter! I DO think I have the money for it… and I assume using it is much more action-efficient than using the Carnival.
EDIT: Ouch… I’d forgotten just HOW much those things cost. Yeah, no, can’t afford it… in no small part due to my recent spate of equipment-purchases. Ah well.
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 3/16/2015[/quote]
warning in advance- they all take 3 actions, cost ~1.5 echoes in goods, and require connected 10 to use. but they also all give a small fortune in CP, and if you want to partake in the notability scheme, you will need the entry in slowcake’s exceptionals- the society one- though you might do well to wait on that one, and, they all sell back for nearly their purchase price.
edited by Grenem on 3/16/2015
I do, in fact… but I do not think I have access to all the GOODS needed to obtain Strong-Backed Labor there. So it’s really just another sort of ‘unattainable’.
Anyway, the bit about the Pewter Tankard is very interesting. I’d assumed those ‘increases connection’ purchases from the Bazaar were consumable, one-time deals… if it’s reusable and only consumes easily-gained resources, well, then it’s another matter! I DO think I have the money for it… and I assume using it is much more action-efficient than using the Carnival.
EDIT: Ouch… I’d forgotten just HOW much those things cost. Yeah, no, can’t afford it… in no small part due to my recent spate of equipment-purchases. Ah well.
edited by BlakeTheDrake on 3/16/2015[/quote]
Whispered Secrets is probably your best choice then; Appalling secrets are slightly cheaper but they raise your nightmares. You can get both through the seeking curios storylets.
Relatedly, you can get some other items from those storylets on rare successes that sell for enough to buy the tankard by themselves, so.
Using the tankard is basically equivalent to farming Rostygold with “Unfinished business in Watchmaker’s Hill”, and trading it to the Tiger Keeper for Whispered Secrets.
I have the math on these somewhere, but I can’t find it. They’re within .02 supplies/action of each other, so do whichever you prefer.
If you are a PoSI beset by Rostygold opportunity cards it might be a little bit more efficient.
Isn’t it Jade for secrets though? (Ah nevermind there’s apparently more than one option lol xD)
edited by WormApotheote on 3/18/2015
If you are getting the secrets/connections with the intent to make supplies, you should be calculating actions per supply, not echoes per supply. So …
(I used that spreadsheet to find what the rate of supplies is for whispered secrets; I am assuming success 1 (60%) is the one with 1 supply, and ignoring the map scraps completely, even though they could buy another 3 whispered secret per 200 secrets spent, for almost a 0.005 spa increase!)
Whispered secrets: if you get them from 150 ppa cards, you are getting ~ 1.4 supply per 1+200/150 actions = 0.6 spa (supply per action)
If you get them through unfinished rostygold (120 ppa) - tiger keeper (1 action and 1000 rostygold to 1100 secrets, so 1100/(1+1000/120)=118 secret/action), you are getting ~ 1.4 supply per 1+200/118 action = 0.519 spa
I don’t know what the best source for appalling secrets is, but it’s worse than 150 ppa, so you are getting at most 1 supply per 1+1 action = 0.5 spa (not counting actions spent removing nightmares, because I Nadir weekly, and that removes nightmares well enough)
archeological notes are better invested by organizing your research in bunches of 500
money, assuming you can make 200 ppa : 4 supply/(4+1000/200) a = 0.44 spa
SBLs, assuming 200 ppa, bought in clay quarters in much bulk (to reduce the entry/exit action cost): 5 supply/(1+1+1000/200)=0.71 spa
SBLs, assuming 164 ppa (AotB): 5/(1+1+1000/164)=0.61 spa
porters, assuming rostygold from 150 ppa sources, glim from lyme (which is about 124 ppa, I think? I have done some simulations of that, but I don’t have the results here): 3 supplies for 1 action and 50 rostygold (1/3 action) and 60 docks (which is 60/75 of: 3 actions and 150 glim) = 3/(1+1/3+(60/75)(3+150/124))=0.638 spa
same, but rostygold from 120 ppa sources: 3/(1+50/120+(60/75)(3+150/124))=0.627 spa
Higher numbers are better.
You probably aren’t grinding 200 ppa somewhere else just to get dubious rewards from expeditions, so I think connecting with zailors winz.
Educating Lyme is at least 122 PPA, using the most cautious route, which I doubt is the most profitable, but is easy to calculate and gives us a minimum.
Also thieves caches provide a source of Glim as well. I’m not sure how that effects things but if a thieves’ cache pays glim that covers all all but 50 glim out of the costs for the next cache, assuming no Signs. (If you get souls, you got a whole lot more money, so I wouldn’t call that a downside really. :P)
Regardless, none of this matters for the OP who almost certainly doesn’t have the stats to reliable pull off any of these numbers. I believe at low levels and when you’re not spamming expeditions repeatedly your best bet is to just spend what you have on hand first.
edited by WormApotheote on 3/18/2015
Hm. Let’s say your basic grinds are all at 50 ppa, effectively.
Whispered secrets: 1.4/(1+200/50)=0.28 spa
You probably don’t have repeatable appalling secrets or archeological notes
money: 4/(4+1000/50)=0.16 spa
SBLs in bulk: 5/(1+1+1000/50)=0.227 spa
porters: 3/(1+50/50+(60/75)*(3+150/50))=0.44 spa
Zailorz are ztill pretty good.
Also thieves caches still pay off enough glim to pretty much fund your next thieves cache when they pay glim so
edited by WormApotheote on 3/19/2015
Too… much… math!
Nightmares is increasing…
But yeah, I managed to scrape up the money for the tankard by selling off some accumulated dross, and it certainly IS terribly efficient. Not sure if the method I’m using to collect the Glim is the best available for me, though - ‘A ship in the night’ at the Wolfstack Docks, good for 70 GPA… assuming I succeed, which is 'bout 65% at my current Dangerous. I could get better odds by lowering my Shadowy a bit and burgling a Glim Assayer’s Office in The Spite, but not MUCH better since it disappears at above 52, and only gives 42 GPA. (I could use the ‘quick-change artist’ trick to do it with near-certain odds, but that would require me to change my clothes before EVERY action… waaaaay too much trouble.)
Well raising your stats at this point also is probably just as important as the money so.