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10/24/2016
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Spoilers for the Rosegate story below, enter at your own risk.
[spoiler] Okay, for some reason, this story disturbs me a lot, so much that I've sort of paused on the last step of flavor harvesting. I mean, I've got Unaccountably Peckish x4 so clearly I've made some questionable choices up to this point, but the game asks you to:
1) kill a blemmigan whose life goal is to fix horrible poetry
2) taunt a sad Rattus Fabur before ripping its gallbladder out
3) vivisect a poor eager kid who just wanted to help his master achieve his dream
(and also something involving a Clay Man but I did that one way back so I don't really remember, but I think smashing him to pieces?)
I think the thing that gets my goat the most is that you get rewarded for doing all of that. It's quite a nice reward, really, and the more ruthless you are the more you get. The cigar's going to get made one way or another, and the Tobaccanist is going to pursue his art to its depths no matter what you choose. I just wish there was an option to rescue the creatures and/or eject the Tobaccanist from the zub because man, I think I am actually genuinely torn about this. (I know it's because of the cute animal thing. The next stop on my journey's going to be to drop off a prisoner for the Pirate King, so no qualms there, obviously.)
What did other people think of this story? I really liked the writing, and it's been able to affect me enough that I'm here writing a post about it, obviously. I'm curious what choices other people made when they got to this point. [/spoiler]
edited by nightday on 10/24/2016
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/24/2016
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For the final choice I decided to sacrifice my own skin instead, so I didn't feel quite as guilty.
Though I don't think it's true that the cigar's definitely getting made. As far as I can tell from the game files, it's possible to make decisions so that the cigar fails and the Tobacconist gives up on his ambition. I'm not quite sure what determines that though.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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phryne
Posts: 1351
10/24/2016
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I decided early on that my first Zubmariner captain is a horrible person who will do all the terrible things you can do in this game that I (probably) won't ever do again on future captains. The reward for the Rosegate story is pretty good but still, I'm already looking forward to telling that guy where he can shove his cigars next time I meet him...
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Guest
10/24/2016
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I did a bit of save scumming to check out the options. You must have to fail on all three, then, because when I refused to kill the blemmigan or the rattus fabur, the cigar got made anyway. I did the Clay Man bit way too far in the past so I can't sabotage that effort, unfortunately.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/24/2016
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Oh yay, a thread to discuss my favorite zubmariner story. Now I don't have to start my own ^^
[spoiler]I didn't feel any hesitation or remorse over killing the Blemmigan. Blemmigans might be friendly and helpful as individuals, but once they form large enough groups they become vicious little monsters. Release them in Khan's Heart and the Melting Isles and in a short span of time they're eating people. They're one of the reasons Bugsby's Marsh is so bl__dy dangerous! To me stabbing the Blemmigan and using its blood wasn't any different from harpooning a zee beast and serving its remains for dinner.
What happened with the L.B. on the other hand was pretty upsetting - I rather like my Talkative Rattus Faber in FL and it was so awful seeing one so silent and depressed, with no hope left...and then having to participate in torturing it. And the Unfinished Man...I only hope he was one of the violent, criminally insane ones, because otherwise...ugh.
Guilt over the above and the fact the Assistant didn't want to be carved up made my Captain volunteer for the operating table. My captain wanted to see that ultimate cigar as much as the Crotchety Tobacconist and he was willing to offer up a pound of flesh for it. It wasn't until the Tobacconist announced his plans for a horrific, industrialized mass production in the Iron Republic that my Captain realized he had made a huge mistake...
This story left me with some pretty big questions though.
First, the motive of the mysterious and very wealthy patron who took the Crotchety Tobacconist in, funded his two decades of research, and eventually set up Rosegate for him. I think the patron is His Amused Lordship, given this rather revealing line:
Crotchety Tobacconist wrote:
"Our Patron has forsaken us. He's only interested in his project to the south."
But this leads to the question: why was His Amused Lordship willing to support such immoral experimentation and spend so much money for an underwater cigar? The sheer thirst for discovery?
Second, why did the Crotchety Tobacconist's decision to mass produce his underwater cigar in the Iron Republic increase Anarchist Supremacy? I assume they're going to be selling the new cigar to the Drownies...because who else is going to smoke it underwater? But why is the Assistant so terrified at the prospect that this will "set the zee ablaze"? Are there so many Drownie customers that this will literally cause the zee to boil? Or, alternatively, is a cigar that can be smoked underwater such a big violation of the laws of nature that it's spread will increase the reach of the Iron Republic's reality warping power? Or is the explanation more prosaic, with the revenue from these cigar sales providing a huge boost to the overall Anarchist cause? Maybe all of the above?[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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absimiliard
Posts: 759
10/24/2016
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phryne wrote:
I decided early on that my first Zubmariner captain is a horrible person who will do all the terrible things you can do in this game that I (probably) won't ever do again on future captains.
This, so this. This is why about half my captains are named Malice instead of Absimiliard. My character's sister is just brutal. If it wasn't for her I'd have to miss out on all these tasty stories. (and now I'm off to get started on that cigar again, died recently and am currently re-mapping the world as Malice again)
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"Because, Parabola!" -- the Curious Captain
Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
10/24/2016
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I think the patron is [spoiler]on the Isle of Cats, given that the Isle of Cats is always to the south of Rosegate.[/spoiler]
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Scienceandponies
Posts: 247
10/24/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
For the final choice I decided to sacrifice my own skin instead, so I didn't feel quite as guilty.
Though I don't think it's true that the cigar's definitely getting made. As far as I can tell from the game files, it's possible to make decisions so that the cigar fails and the Tobacconist gives up on his ambition. I'm not quite sure what determines that though.
I also sacrificed my own skin to save the assistant while helping with the other three parts (simply because there was no option to stop them, just sit in the other room and pout). I described the quest line to my roommate and he basically said I was an anthropocentric bastard.
There was an option to destroy the whole work during the skin decision, but I figured we'd sunk in enough horrible deeds already, we might as well see if the thing actually works.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/24/2016
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The patron is neither of the above. It's hinted at very subtly, but the patron's real identity is
[spoiler]Bourdain, of the Seven against Nidah. When you first bring the Assistant back to Rosegate, the Tobacconist mentions that his patron is only interested in his project to the South, ie Nidah, and that he's run out of rubies trying to convince the patron otherwise. As seen at the end of the Gnomic Gallavant's questline, Bourdain's various agents use rubies to communicate with him, as whatever remains of him became stuck inside Frostfound's ruby chamber.[/spoiler]
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/25/2016
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Is he connected with the anarchists?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/25/2016
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He was a French revolutionary from the surface, so probably.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Guest
10/25/2016
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phryne wrote:
I decided early on that my first Zubmariner captain is a horrible person who will do all the terrible things you can do in this game that I (probably) won't ever do again on future captains. The reward for the Rosegate story is pretty good but still, I'm already looking forward to telling that guy where he can shove his cigars next time I meet him...
Ha! I'm going to roll with that, then. Man, being a Nice Person really doesn't get very far in this game, does it :P
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/25/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
He was a French revolutionary from the surface, so probably.
That explains a lot.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
10/25/2016
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Optimatum wrote:
The patron is neither of the above. It's hinted at very subtly, but the patron's real identity is
-SNIP-
That's some fine detective work.
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Marsha Glade
Posts: 73
10/25/2016
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nightday wrote:
Ha! I'm going to roll with that, then. Man, being a Nice Person really doesn't get very far in this game, does it :P
What do you mean being a Nice Person doesn't get you far? The entire game is about you being a nice person... by Fallen Londoner standards :P
--
Marsha Glade - A rather charming thief.
Has her own zubmarine.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/30/2016
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There's still the question of why [spoiler]the mass production of the underwater cigar increases Anarchist supremacy?[/spoiler]
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/30/2016
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Well, in FL the Revolutionary faction image is flames, it does seem fitting :P
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/30/2016
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I'm not saying it isn't wonderfully thematic (cause it is). I'm just wondering how it does that.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Fredward
Posts: 28
10/30/2016
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nightday wrote:
Man, being a Nice Person really doesn't get very far in this game, does it :P
Which is something I reeeaaalllyyy appreciate about this game. A lot of games have this vibe of Cosmic Karmic Policeman going on, where a 'bad' decision comes back to bite you at some point in the future and a good one will pay dividends, or otherwise the choices (good vs bad) have equal rewards even when it doesn't make much sense that they should.
The result, then, is that from a meta perspective you know being a good guy will be both easy on your conscience and thanks to the Cosmic Karmic Policeman that you'll be rewarded later for it. It's ridiculously lopsided and devalues the choice.
So I really appreciate that being a morally repugnant cannibal monster who can sell people's memories for phat stacks of dosh is a wholly rewarding endeavor in this game. It means that if you decide not to do those things it feels like you're actually taking a principled stance.
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Marsha Glade
Posts: 73
10/30/2016
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And if you make the wrong decision, it's OK, there are no consequences when you die and try again except your successor gets part of your ill-gotten gains.
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Marsha Glade - A rather charming thief.
Has her own zubmarine.
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