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Virginia's Hidden Plan: A Discussion Messages in this topic - RSS

Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 586

7/22/2019
Among all of Fallen London's myriad stories, there is one that stands out as an influence on this Election: the Affair of the Box. I believe this winding tale of a locked box is the key to understanding Virginia's plan and why it is good for London, not just in public health and economic equality via public works and exercise, but in living up to what Failbetter themselves named Virginia: The Heroine of London.

Heroine? Really? It's a strange choice of words for a deviless, but the writers have given us all the information we need to understand why Virginia is running for mayor, what her plan is, and how she plans on addressing the looming threats that face London.

(Spoilers ahead for new text from candidate cards available in the second week)

Virginia wrote:
"Is London in safe hands with me? Of course not. I am, after all, a devil. More relevantly, I'm me. But, look around! Can you say that London is in the best of health? London is filled with corruption, degeneracy, paucity of ambition." She wipes her mouth delicately on a pressed napkin. "London's reserves in the only currency that matters are almost spent. I mean to give the city a fighting chance. Call me a good sportswoman." She pays the bill when it comes.
First, there is the question of the nature of this currency, and the most telling point is that it's "the only currency that matters" and "almost spent". Souls are not this currency - they are not in short supply, and they are in constant production rather than being kept in "reserves". Remember that Victorian London had the highest population of any city on Earth, and couple that with the Neath's unnatural vitality.

The answer is clear: the secret currencies in the Bazaar's vaults. Those "Fragments of a primal power, locked away in the Masters' vaults since the deal that bought the First City." Virginia is a player of the Marvellous, where the Masters gamble with this ancient currency. Now, lore surroundings these currencies is sparse, to say the least, but the fact that they're "almost spent" brings us to the basic point of supply and demand: those who want them will have a vested interest in obtaining and keeping them.

Wandering the Forgotten Quarter alongside Virginia gives us a very telling piece of information about her thoughts on the fate that befell the previous city.

A hunt for knowledge wrote:
She halts in front of a shattered spire. Sigils, blackened and dull, adorn its cracked walls. She shows you the pattern that rings the stone, and produces her own transcription. "They didn't understand these when they made them. It was supposed to be a ward." She points to further scorched signals, in a style identical to her own notes. "I made some adjustments."
These ruins have clearly seen better days. Remember, these are not ruins from natural decay: they were destroyed. Virginia makes it clear what those sigils - the Correspondence - were meant to accomplish: to be a ward. To guard and to shield. They didn't understand, and in the hour of need, they couldn't be protected. This may seem irrelevant to the rest of her campaign. What do Correspondence wards on broken towers have to do with public health or physical exercise? What does it have to with a spa? For that, let's examine how exactly this spa works. Virginia has been personally scouting locations for it - it seems like any old place isn't suitable. Knowing Virginia's interests, it very well could be in the Forgotten Quarter. Furthermore, the spa is public - available to anyone, regardless of wealth or influence. It's an institution that serves the poor, who can't otherwise afford it. Fuel isn't cheap. It's much easier to win promising vague ideals like "a chain that can be climbed" if Virginia were solely concerned about victory, she wouldn't need the spa. The resolution is clear. Virginia (and us) know of an energy source that generates heat - scorching heat, perfect for heating a spa: the Correspondence. And it just so happens that Virginia has been studying the use of Correspondence as a shield.

There are those who want to see London destroyed, and they too are the natural enemies of Virginia. The enemy of my enemy is perhaps not my friend, but an ally nonetheless. What Virginia wants is to strengthen London: not just its health but its resolve and ambition. We're now embarking into deeper lore territory and spoilers for the Affair of the Box, so those who prefer not to read those can depart with my final claim that Virginia does not seek power for power's sake; she does not seek power for Hell's sake; she seeks power for her own sake, and for London's sake, because she intends to bring new life - a second wind - to a London that has forgotten what it means to make a stand and live.

[spoiler]We know what happened to the Fourth City. The Masters burned it to the ground. They destroyed it. Those Correspondence sigils didn't save them. When the last Khan rose in rebellion, they obliterated the city and then left to find the Fifth. The lacre wasn't low; the Stone Pigs weren't stirring. They simply destroyed the city and moved on. This is the lesson they learned from the Fourth: the Fall of a new city can be accelerated, and there are those who scheme to do the same again, notably one revealed in the Affair of the Box, the owner of the box: Mr Stones.

Stones planned to pay an exiled devil captain and his army to destroy London and bring about the fall of the Sixth City; the loss of the box meant that Stones had lost one means of payment, but Stones is still around and scheming, and these devils never left the Forgotten Quarter. Virginia is a hero of the Season of Revolutions and instrumental in bringing down the old aristocracy: she is a natural enemy of the exiles who could destroy London. And by her reckoning, London doesn't stand a chance. That's what she wants to change. She wants to give London a fighting chance. London might not be strong enough. All her efforts might go to waste. But she's made an effort. She's studied the protective wards that failed, and she's made her own adjustments. Her key public work is one that can be built on those very same protective wards, one that aims to invigorate the entire city. The pieces fit together: her platform is the defense and revitalization of London.

And, if we're being more speculative, the threat may be more imminent than it seems. It's like Pandora's box: once it's opened, what was within can't be locked away again. The timeline of the Bazaar's acquisition of cities is increasing: the Masters are already scheming for the fall of the Sixth City when the Fifth hasn't even been around for half a decade. We see this when Wines is hearing offers from the Empress' Shadow. We see this in a future lost in reflections, when Paris is on the verge of falling less than a decade into the 20th century. The destruction of the Fourth left little for the Stone Pigs; they hunger, and they stir. Why not repeat this for the Fifth? Virginia's plan is to give London a fighting chance against this destruction: to not go like a lamb to slaughter but to fight back against those who would preordain its demise.
[/spoiler]
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Now, I will admit this is not the strongest of hypotheses. It leans too heavily on circumstantial evidence for my liking, and there are many ways to interpret the text; this is just one among them. That's why I want this to be a discussion.

This isn't random, though. We're talking about Failbetter here: writers, editors, and directors with a knack for cryptic but coherent writing, a deep understanding of the lore, and frankly good storytelling. They won't name Virginia the "Heroine of London" for nothing. They won't let the text we spend real currency (via Fate) on simply be a wall of text unrelated to the Election at hand. For me, this interpretation of Virginia's plans binds her entire campaign together in a story rooted in the foundational lore of Fallen London while staying true to her character, and it's this that solidifies my support for Virginia: because this is a plan that might just actually work.

EDIT, 13 August 2019: With the release of Virginia's "Lord Mayor" card, quite a few interesting possibilities have opened up (particularly with regards to our Rubbery friends and factionalism within Hell), but the above line of reasoning regarding the Sixth City doesn't really fit, unfortunately. Still, I rather enjoyed this particular interpretation of Virginia's Election text, and so it'll be preserved as it is.
edited by Azothi on 8/13/2019

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/22/2019
Virginia did suggest that her interest is purely academic. And this from the 10-reputation option, which I usually take to be the candidates in their most sincere. I believe that if she meant to use it in any defensive way, she would drop a hint.
I admit that Fallen London is a dark game, and Failbetter loves its anti-heroes. So that would not be beyond them. But I don't see any hints towards this direction.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1351

7/27/2019
Azothi, you're a genius. I never quite understood what the Affair of the Box was really about, and you explained it beautifully. Thanks for that!

Concering Virginia, I wanted her to win from the beginning and this hasn't changed at all. I've no idea whether your theory about her is totally spot-on, but I'm convinced it's not too far away from the truth. She does have a secret plan, and its success (which isn't guaranteed) would really be beneficial to London. It might be personally beneficial to her, in some way, too, sure. Why not? I don't expect any candidate to run purely for the public good. This is London, after all.

I don't spend much time looking at the discussion threads, but when I do all I see is "DEVIL! HELL! OMG! SOUL-STEALER! EVIL! ARRRGH!" and seriously, that alone is enough reason for me to want her to win and prove these people wrong. (Also, imagine the Bishop of Southwark's reaction to London electing a deviless when they didn't elect him. I want to read THAT!) :P

--
Accounts: Bag a LegendLight FingersHeart's DesireNemesisno ambition
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Vladison Ianchester
Vladison Ianchester
Posts: 12

7/25/2019
I have a few problems with the original arguments presented in support of Virginia.

First, your assumption that she wants to use the Spas as a way to test Correspondence while also heating the water is very outlandish. Wasting the Letters of Heaven to warm some people's bath?! Virginia is a deviless. From Hell. That place known to never freeze over. They even export Nevercold Brass which, as the name entails, never turns cold. I think there are quite a few ways to keep the spas warm.

Second, Virginia has no reason to be so secretive about her plans. Yes, the Masters would definitely not like someone to put a protection spell on London if they plan to destroy it, but they didn't have any problem with Shoshana campaigning on that exact matter and telling everyone about London's Doom. This means that she could at least personally tell the player face-to-face about it, as it would not only gain trust, but also possible help from fellow scholars in the Correspondence.

Third, Virginia is not the only enemy of those exiled devils you mentioned. Probably most of Hell or at least the higher-ups (or lower-ups more precisely) are too. They are exiled for a reason. This means that if she was indeed trying to oppose them and defend London and that was her agenda, she would have the support of Hell as well, and probably want it too. No point in keeping it a secret from them either. After all, Hell has pretty good diplomatic deals with London that would be nullified if it got replaced by Paris, so they would very likely be interested as well, and Virginia would want their help in this one.

In my opinion, she just wants to conduct experiments on the cleansing of the souls, with londoners as her subjects.
edited by Vlad on 7/25/2019

--
The Undecided Scholar.
Came looking for Correspondence and found gold in the Nadir.
Hard to piece together all the missing pieces in those faded mysteries, but enough darkdrop coffee should offer more than enough late hours. Good against Fingerkings too.
+3 link
Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 586

7/23/2019
Jolanda Swan wrote:
I think the most convincing argument against this speculation is that if Virginia and Shoshana were fighting for the same thing, from different angles, Failbetter would take care to let us know. It would make for an interesting dilemma, and a source of discussion.
That's fair enough - it's precisely that it's an interesting dilemma to consider that prompts me to bring this up in discussion - but I agree that this is more subtle and inference-based than Election content has historically been.

I think Failbetter has taken care to let us know the broad strokes, though, if not the details. Virginia's second-week information is a notable departure from her first week, and there are several hanging threads in her text that are worth pulling. What does she mean to give London "a fighting chance" against? Why has she made adjustments to the failed Correspondence wards of the Fourth City?

I'm trying to find solutions that weave all these threads into a story; I trust that Failbetter won't just leave us hanging like that.

--

And for what it's worth, I think all candidates, Miriam included, are fighting for roughly the same thing, just with different tools. Shoshana is trying to bring in both common Londoners and the powers that be (involving the Ministry, for instance). Plenty wants to stave off change through her sheer force of will (and money). Virginia wants the people of London to hone and improve themselves to address any threats. Their styles differ because of their histories: their experiences as a prophetess, a grand dame, and a heroine.

Honestly, if they all worked together instead of fighting, that'd be the best course forward for London. But the Election is designed to stop this; it's built to encourage partisanship and tribalism because that's how the Masters keep Londoners trapped fighting each other.

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
+3 link
Teaspoon
Teaspoon
Posts: 866

7/22/2019
Azothi wrote:
Among all of Fallen London's myriad stories, there is one that stands out as an influence on this Election: the Affair of the Box. I believe this winding tale of a locked box is the key to understanding Virginia's plan and why it is good for London, not just in public health and economic equality via public works and exercise, but in living up to what Failbetter themselves named Virginia: The Heroine of London.

Heroine? Really? It's a strange choice of words for a deviless, but the writers have given us all the information we need to understand why Virginia is running for mayor, what her plan is, and how she plans on addressing the looming threats that face London.

(Spoilers ahead for new text from candidate cards available in the second week)

Virginia wrote:
"Is London in safe hands with me? Of course not. I am, after all, a devil. More relevantly, I'm me. But, look around! Can you say that London is in the best of health? London is filled with corruption, degeneracy, paucity of ambition." She wipes her mouth delicately on a pressed napkin. "London's reserves in the only currency that matters are almost spent. I mean to give the city a fighting chance. Call me a good sportswoman." She pays the bill when it comes.
First, there is the question of the nature of this currency, and the most telling point is that it's "the only currency that matters" and "almost spent". Souls are not this currency - they are not in short supply, and they are in constant production rather than being kept in "reserves". Remember that Victorian London had the highest population of any city on Earth, and couple that with the Neath's unnatural vitality.

The answer is clear: the secret currencies in the Bazaar's vaults. Those "Fragments of a primal power, locked away in the Masters' vaults since the deal that bought the First City." Virginia is a player of the Marvellous, where the Masters gamble with this ancient currency. Now, lore surroundings these currencies is sparse, to say the least, but the fact that they're "almost spent" brings us to the basic point of supply and demand: those who want them will have a vested interest in obtaining and keeping them.

Wandering the Forgotten Quarter alongside Virginia gives us a very telling piece of information about her thoughts on the fate that befell the previous city.

A hunt for knowledge wrote:
She halts in front of a shattered spire. Sigils, blackened and dull, adorn its cracked walls. She shows you the pattern that rings the stone, and produces her own transcription. "They didn't understand these when they made them. It was supposed to be a ward." She points to further scorched signals, in a style identical to her own notes. "I made some adjustments."
These ruins have clearly seen better days. Remember, these are not ruins from natural decay: they were destroyed. Virginia makes it clear what those sigils - the Correspondence - were meant to accomplish: to be a ward. To guard and to shield. They didn't understand, and in the hour of need, they couldn't be protected. This may seem irrelevant to the rest of her campaign. What do Correspondence wards on broken towers have to do with public health or physical exercise? What does it have to with a spa? For that, let's examine how exactly this spa works. Virginia has been personally scouting locations for it - it seems like any old place isn't suitable. Knowing Virginia's interests, it very well could be in the Forgotten Quarter. Furthermore, the spa is public - available to anyone, regardless of wealth or influence. It's an institution that serves the poor, who can't otherwise afford it. Fuel isn't cheap. It's much easier to win promising vague ideals like "a chain that can be climbed" if Virginia were solely concerned about victory, she wouldn't need the spa. The resolution is clear. Virginia (and us) know of an energy source that generates heat - scorching heat, perfect for heating a spa: the Correspondence. And it just so happens that Virginia has been studying the use of Correspondence as a shield.

There are those who want to see London destroyed, and they too are the natural enemies of Virginia. The enemy of my enemy is perhaps not my friend, but an ally nonetheless. What Virginia wants is to strengthen London: not just its health but its resolve and ambition. We're now embarking into deeper lore territory and spoilers for the Affair of the Box, so those who prefer not to read those can depart with my final claim that Virginia does not seek power for power's sake; she does not seek power for Hell's sake; she seeks power for her own sake, and for London's sake, because she intends to bring new life - a second wind - to a London that has forgotten what it means to make a stand and live.

[spoiler]We know what happened to the Fourth City. The Masters burned it to the ground. They destroyed it. Those Correspondence sigils didn't save them. When the last Khan rose in rebellion, they obliterated the city and then left to find the Fifth. The lacre wasn't low; the Stone Pigs weren't stirring. They simply destroyed the city and moved on. This is the lesson they learned from the Fourth: the Fall of a new city can be accelerated, and there are those who scheme to do the same again, notably one revealed in the Affair of the Box, the owner of the box: Mr Stones.

Stones planned to pay an exiled devil captain and his army to destroy London and bring about the fall of the Sixth City; the loss of the box meant that Stones had lost one means of payment, but Stones is still around and scheming, and these devils never left the Forgotten Quarter. Virginia is a hero of the Season of Revolutions and instrumental in bringing down the old aristocracy: she is a natural enemy of the exiles who could destroy London. And by her reckoning, London doesn't stand a chance. That's what she wants to change. She wants to give London a fighting chance. London might not be strong enough. All her efforts might go to waste. But she's made an effort. She's studied the protective wards that failed, and she's made her own adjustments. Her key public work is one that can be built on those very same protective wards, one that aims to invigorate the entire city. The pieces fit together: her platform is the defense and revitalization of London.

And, if we're being more speculative, the threat may be more imminent than it seems. It's like Pandora's box: once it's opened, what was within can't be locked away again. The timeline of the Bazaar's acquisition of cities is increasing: the Masters are already scheming for the fall of the Sixth City when the Fifth hasn't even been around for half a decade. We see this when Wines is hearing offers from the Empress' Shadow. We see this in a future lost in reflections, when Paris is on the verge of falling less than a decade into the 20th century. The destruction of the Fourth left little for the Stone Pigs; they hunger, and they stir. Why not repeat this for the Fifth? Virginia's plan is to give London a fighting chance against this destruction: to not go like a lamb to slaughter but to fight back against those who would preordain its demise.
[/spoiler]
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Now, I will admit this is not the strongest of hypotheses. It leans too heavily on circumstantial evidence for my liking, and there are many ways to interpret the text; this is just one among them. That's why I want this to be a discussion.

This isn't random, though. We're talking about Failbetter here: writers, editors, and directors with a knack for cryptic but coherent writing, a deep understanding of the lore, and frankly good storytelling. They won't name Virginia the "Heroine of London" for nothing. They won't let the text we spend real currency (via Fate) on simply be a wall of text unrelated to the Election at hand. For me, this interpretation of Virginia's plans binds her entire campaign together in a story rooted in the foundational lore of Fallen London while staying true to her character, and it's this that solidifies my support for Virginia: because this is a plan that might just actually work.


...you know what, this is the best argument I've yet seen for any of the candidates, by which I mean to say that it's the most entertainingly complicated, thought out, and appropriately deranged.

I've got a Career at 20 for Mrs Plenty, but this could convince me to switch...

--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.

https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 586

7/26/2019
Vladison Ianchester wrote:
I have a few problems with the original arguments presented in support of Virginia.
Fair enough. There are plenty of places to poke holes. That being said, I believe the evidence does not substantiate - or, at times, even outright contradicts - some of the points made here..

Vladison Ianchester wrote:
First, your assumption that she wants to use the Spas as a way to test Correspondence while also heating the water is very outlandish. Wasting the Letters of Heaven to warm some people's bath?!
First, Virginia has already made adjustments to the scorched sigils - that much is established in "A hunt for knowledge", the text excerpted immediately before the spa-Correspondence claim was made. What a spa offers is accomplishing numerous objectives at once: it improves the mental health of a substantial proportion of the city (the downtrodden workers who could not afford such preventative care with the wages and hours forced on them) while allowing her to begin the warding process. Is it outlandish? You could reasonably say that, but stranger things have happened in Fallen London.

Vladison Ianchester wrote:
Virginia is a deviless. From Hell. That place known to never freeze over. They even export Nevercold Brass which, as the name entails, never turns cold. I think there are quite a few ways to keep the spas warm.
Part of my original reasoning presented in suggesting the Correspondence as an energy source for the spa was that the Correspondence is free. Virginia is, to the best of our knowledge, not backed by the Brass Embassy, implying that any Nevercold Brass she uses must be purchased in bulk from the Bazaar. This is far more expenditure on the part of the Mayor's Office than has been shown to this point.

The Jovial Contrarian has focused on the intelligence he can access as Mayor rather than any spending programs. Feducci's "policies" focused on what he's always done: unfair duels, which required no expenditure on the Mayor's part. Even Jenny's programs were volunteer work: the payment for educating Dockers was through their gratitude and their drinks. Even teachers at her Finishing School are not paid but are rather rewarded with the knowledge and trinkets they gain by doing their job. The Finishing School itself is privately operated by Jenny and exists outside of any funding or control from the Mayor's Office, in stark contrast to the public works program proposed by Virginia.

Materials for constructing a spa are already there, scattered about the Forgotten Quarter. A tool for heating it is already there, in Virginia's mind. I'm not sure how wise it is to assume the Mayor's Office has more purchasing power than past evidence suggests.

Vladison Ianchester wrote:
Second, Virginia has no reason to be so secretive about her plans. Yes, the Masters would definitely not like someone to put a protection spell on London if they plan to destroy it, but they didn't have any problem with Shoshana campaigning on that exact matter and telling everyone about London's Doom. This means that she could at least personally tell the player face-to-face about it, as it would not only gain trust, but also possible help from fellow scholars in the Correspondence.
My point is that Virginia has revealed information about her plans, especially in the second week, that have been cited in the theory. What the theory attempts is an interpretation of what she has told us. You are free to interpret the text differently; that's why I want this to be a discussion. But we can't deny that Virginia has stated, "I mean to give the city a fighting chance." We also can't deny that Virginia has taken an academic interest in the failed efforts of the Fourth City to defend themselves against the force that destroyed them - and that force wasn't the fall of the Fifth City.

There's also a good explanation, if hypothetical, for why the Masters are fine with Shoshana's proclamation of doom: Shoshana can't do anything about it. The Masters are well aware of what happens in a Fall, and it's not something that Shoshana's "plans" - ideas that she herself is unsure of - can stop. In fact, electing Shoshana is a good way to lessen the threat London poses to the Masters, because Shoshana proclaims that she alone can fix it. She is channeling feelings of doom in London and presenting herself as the solution when the Masters are well-aware of the severe limitations of her capabilities as Mayor.

As for gaining help from fellow scholars of the Correspendence, I must point out that Virginia receives support from Benthic: the faction featuring the Department of _____ dedicated to studying the Correspondence, and the school whose cricket team is deeply involved with the Correspondence.
Vladison Ianchester wrote:
Third, Virginia is not the only enemy of those exiled devils you mentioned. Probably most of Hell or at least the higher-ups (or lower-ups more precisely) are too. They are exiled for a reason. This means that if she was indeed trying to oppose them and defend London and that was her agenda, she would have the support of Hell as well, and probably want it too. No point in keeping it a secret from them either. After all, Hell has pretty good diplomatic deals with London that would be nullified if it got replaced by Paris, so they would very likely be interested as well, and Virginia would want their help in this one.
Virginia outright states, "Hell isn't interested in elevating the competition." Strengthening London means just that, and Hell has no interest in transforming London into a threat. The exiled devils aren't a threat to Hell; they are merely a pawn (or a rook, more honestly) in the Masters' schemes.

Vladison Ianchester wrote:
In my opinion, she just wants to conduct experiments on the cleansing of the souls, with londoners as her subjects.
This view doesn't account for or explain most of the new information gathered about Virginia's campaign in the first week and especially the second week. One could plausibly (but not definitively) reach this conclusion merely by thinking, "Virginia is an academic and a devil, and her slogan is 'Good for the Soul' - therefore, her interest is solely in experimenting on these souls." But let's assume this to be true, though: Virginia's plans account for little beyond this. There are a few questions that I'd pose, then.

(1) What does Virginia "mean to give the city a fighting chance" against?

(2) What is the point of Failbetter locking several paragraphs of text about Virginia studying the Correspondence wards of the Fourth City and their failure as wards behind 12 Fate?

(3) Why would Hell oppose a platform focused on improving souls?

I agree that the improvement of the soul is a component of Virginia's goals, but saying that she just wants to conduct these experiments would require ignoring the vast majority of the text that was written for Virginia's campaign.

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
+2 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/23/2019
I think the most convincing argument against this speculation is that if Virginia and Shoshana were fighting for the same thing, from different angles, Failbetter would take care to let us know. It would make for an interesting dilemma, and a source of discussion.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/25/2019
A very good rp explanation I can live with, but as a matter of feedback, I think this choice hurt the event.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/27/2019
phryne wrote:
all I see is "DEVIL! HELL! OMG! SOUL-STEALER! EVIL! ARRRGH!" and seriously, that alone is enough reason for me to want her to win and prove these people wrong.


Hey! We are also shouting "Agent of a foreign power" and "Murderess". Don't sell us short!

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Passionario
Passionario
Posts: 777

7/29/2019
I am partial to the theory that the only currency that matters (and that London is almost out of) is time.

--
Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Vladison Ianchester
Vladison Ianchester
Posts: 12

7/29/2019
Oh what a shame. Looks like Virginia indeed won. Well, Azothi, your theory better be accurate, otherwise you owe me big time for all the time I spent debunking it and in rising my reputation just to vote for her.

--
The Undecided Scholar.
Came looking for Correspondence and found gold in the Nadir.
Hard to piece together all the missing pieces in those faded mysteries, but enough darkdrop coffee should offer more than enough late hours. Good against Fingerkings too.
+1 link
Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518

7/29/2019
Doctor_Static wrote:
Cattherine ;:

AS to ::
Madame Shoshana, babbling about Love being the key without giving any further details as to how she will increase Love in Fallen London


i've posted to these threads about my "collaborating" with mme Shoshana - esp. -- via her "Romantic Predictions" - which serve to raise my Fascination quality - to as much as 20, before ... This quality represents one's attraction to an interested partner for passion ... She uses her Tarot for these mesmericly justified 'Romantic Predictions' - except for 'Rare Successes', which appear in her crystal ball . . . NOW, she has gifted the city with pervasive subtlety of Tarot-deck-gloves . . . Future Lessons / Cards MAY teach the public this tantric trick, yet.

So, basicly, madame can guarantee one will succeed at matters of Amour - and may be about to share how, with all of London!

(am ubderslept - pardon sloppy style, pls)
Also - please see my use of the tarot - as linked to my journal notes - in the Threads for Election items, and for Shoshana debate - and in the one on all candidates before it . . . In which i throw my first tarot reading for the ccurrent mayor & have him say a justification for the cards enhancing qualities - as well as the "Shepardess" interpretation ... ((too tired, ack seizing, or i'd link it here, sorry ...Ouch..))


Drazzle Psmyth for the Shy Sphynx
.
edited by Doctor_Static on 7/29/2019


Perhaps you are right. Hopefully she will get a chance to succeed, even though she did not win the election.

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/29/2019
Shoshana is more well positioned to create love stories because of her occupation I think. People come to her to find answers in matters of the heart, so she can guide them (perhaps the meaning of the Shepherd card?) towards burning romances.
If that doesn't work, she probably plans to have us do as the Rosers did.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Lady Sapho Byron
Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770

7/26/2019
If Virginia's plans are to protect London through, in part, emplacing a Correspondence Defense, she doesn't need to be mayor to do so (albeit, being mayor would facilitate the project). It's also worth pointing out that Virginia isn't necessarily the only person--er--sentient being--who could effect such a defense.

Who knew that being a Correspondent would be such a noble calling?!

Addendum: we're all worried about being squished by Paris or a similar city. But let's not forget that the LotN also has it in for our fair city.
edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 7/26/2019

--
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 586

7/23/2019
Jeremiah Oathes wrote:
Unfortunately, there is too much speculation and too little hard facts for my taste. I would love to see as well that this is her true agenda. This would be one hell (*chuckles*) of a twist. But the points of support are very sparse here.
I understand that. Hell, if I were the one listening to someone else describe it, I'd be skeptical too. My hope is that criticism and other thoughts can cut out the weaker points and lead us in the right direction, wherever that is.

Jeremiah Oathes wrote:
I believe, the interpretations of Madame Shoshonas utterances are quite unanimous and the largest criticism is directed at her counter plan, which many find too much of a compromise (if it works at all).

But if this really is Virginias rescue strategy, then I would like to hear that in more or less straight talk directly from her. There are enough one-on-one opportunities for each candidate, so she doesn't need to "spill her secret" to non-trusted parties.
For this, I'd approach it from a Doylist perspective. The Affair of the Box is a long and well-written story that accompanies players from the early game onwards; it's not one that I imagine the writers would want to spoil through the Election open to all players, especially considering how the relevant lore is the answer to the story's persistent mystery.

Even with Shoshana, her long game is never outright stated - it can be deduced fairly easily, but the details and the implementation are still shrouded in vagueries. For Virginia, it's the opposite: we have a good idea about what she plans to do on the surface, and we can try to build on that to determine her long game.

Jeremiah Oathes wrote:
Addendum: She speaks of a single currency, not "currencies". She also doesn't mention that it is necessarily secret. I figured that the single most important currency which London has, and pays to the Bazaar, is Love Stories.
This is a possibility, but I'm not convinced. The text gives us two pieces of information about the currency: (1) it's "the only currency that matters" and (2) "reserves are ... almost spent". On the first point, love stories only particularly matter to the Bazaar; on the contrary, the secret currencies are coveted by everybody - that's the premise of the Numismatrix. Furthermore, there doesn't appear to be a "reserve" of love stories that can be running short, and new love stories are always in production.

Furthermore, on the single currency versus "currencies" point, the way it's commonly used implies a single currency of sorts: First City Coins - a singular currency - are representations of this primal power.
Diptych wrote:
It could just be because she's a heroine (of Hell's revolution) and she's in London.
It could be; that's a definite possibility. On the surface, though, it still seems relatively disconnected from her platform, unlike both Shoshana (Prophetess) and Plenty (Grand Dame) representing how they intend to govern.

Regardless, I think it's just an interesting question to raise at the beginning to set the stage for the broader point, which is trying to connect the disparate elements of Virginia's campaign into a coherent, lore-based narrative.

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/23/2019
This last idea is great. It would make for a lovely second week reveal, actually (Pity that part of the elections got scraped this year).

But I am afraid that the actual threads given to us are too thin, and we are just weaving a story for ourselves. Nothing against that - I would gladly RP my arguments as Jolanda, but I am afraid we are reading too much into ANYTHING because we felt let down by the actual content.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/24/2019
I am copying this from Virginia's thread, since it goes here better: be warned, this is an rp post so the language is a bit sarcastic.

And then it dawned on me:
She wants to give London a fighting chance against her, since so often we play the quarry in her hunts.
She is a sporting lady. She appreciates a good fight - she has demonstrated it time and again.
So she wants us to have a fighting chance against her, and for some reason this was translated into a benevolent slogan out of nowhere. Right into her trap, I guess.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784

7/24/2019
Sigh. This is why we badly needed some second week revelations, on both sides.
On previous elections we had them, and they were less needed than they are now.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Blaine Davidson
Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388

7/24/2019
So we don't have second week revelations? I'm not sure if I should be disappointed or relieved that I didn't accidentally miss a week.

--
Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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