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For the discussion of our Sunless Skies, released January 2019.

Sunless Skies Kickstarter Preview

Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/18/2017	Friends! Dearest friends. I'm so excited to show you our Kickstarter page in its draft form for your reactions. Because this is quite sensitive, some house rules for the discussion before we get started: This is a ~~DRAFT~~. Anything can change. No information on the page should be treated as canon until it goes live. Please don't share the link outside the forums. (We will cancel the link if this happens.) That includes the IRC; if IRC people want to have a look, please send them to this thread, not to the page. We will take feedback here or via the form on the page, please keep it in those two places. That all being said, here is the draft Kickstarter page for Sunless Skies! I'll be on hand to answer questions today and tomorrow. Enjoy! -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Harlocke Posts: 506 1/22/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: We recognise how much it sucks to find out about a Kickstarter bonus after the Kickstarter, and we didn't want to perpetuate that by offering something similar again. However, there are future social rewards which you'd be very interested in. If they're unlocked by the community during the Kickstarter then they will be available to everyone - no more locking off of content-based exclusives. I'm interested in Sunless Sky inspired FL content, but I don't care if it's exclusive to the kickstarter. I'd be fine with people being able to buy it later with fate. I take no pleasure in denying others the chance to get something cool, just so I can have it all to myself. If it's something like an item or a companion, perhaps the kickstarter granted version can have a special message added to the description text like "Earned by backing Sunless Skies", so there's a tiny bit of exclusivity for early backers without locking people out of anything important. -- I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/23/2017	Kukapetal wrote: How about a poll? Funnily enough, we did a large survey about this Kickstarter which was answered by about 3,700 people, coming from these forums, the IRC and discords, reddit, facebook, twitter, tumblr, the Steam forums and through the link being shared from those platforms. The survey didn't include questions about how much people would be willing to pay (it's deeply subjective and might not have reflected the value of the rewards or taken into account things that people can't be expected to know about, like fulfilment costs), but otherwise the results of the survey were used to build the Kickstarter into what you see now. -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Balefire Posts: 7 1/21/2017	I shall definitely be contributing, probably a bit more than I really should, partly because I'm eager to try out FBG's new game and partly out of gratitude for the enjoyment that the fruits of their labor have brought me so far. I started out with Sunless Sea a few months ago on a whim: I had first seen Sunless Sea in a review somewhere comparing it favorably to No Man's Sky, and tried it out. That eventually led me to Fallen London, which has now consumed my time available for gaming to the extent that I am on a hiatus from Sunless Sea. Both impressed me very favorably, and the total of my Fate purchases has not been trivial. Where I live 100 pounds represents the approximate price of 14 pints of Guinness (or equivalent) in a pub, and 150 pounds will get you a good dinner for two at a relatively nice restaurant if you don't go overboard with the wine. Sacrificing the funds necessary for a solid evening at the pub, or substituting a home-made meal for a night out, seems like a good tradeoff to me given what I've seen of FBG's work so far. Even though the largest T-shirt might be a bit snug for me (decades of carousing can do that to you), and I don't have space in my study to display a star chart, my very positive experience with FBG games thus far has motivated me to be quite eager to provide support, even though I'd never considered KS support for any other venture previously. I'm looking forward to hearing more details of the coming project, and to the KS launch. -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Deguello It is said that Deguello seems to want it all, and does not always discriminate overly much regarding how he acquires it. He wouldn't go out of his way to refute that, nor would he overly concern himself with avoiding scandal, welcoming it, in fact, as often as not. As for timing, he'd say that now is almost certainly preferable to later. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Balefire%20Ebonheart Merchant or smuggler, explorer or interloper, archaeologist or tomb robber, privateer or pirate? It depends on your point of view, but Captain Ebonheart has an insatiable curiosity and must perforce engage in divers means of funding his research, whether at zee, in a library, or in a pub.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/18/2017	Are there any plans to give people who pledge a unique Fallen London companion, like with the other games? I missed out on the Panther and Falcon because I was unaware of the existence of FBG at the time of those kickstarters, but have vowed not to miss out a third time :P Heck, I don't even have any interest in the game since my old dinosaur of a computer would probably explode if I tried to run it, but will still pledge if there's a unique FL companion offered. (Apologies if this is already explained in the link...I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, but I was reading pretty fast )
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/19/2017	Robin Alexander wrote: I'm happy to try and aim for the social rewards, and - were I able to play the game - I'd donate in a heartbeat. The prices are great, while the rewards for each donation are very fair/proportionate, but I think the rewards need to be exclusively (or close enough) to the game that's being kick-started . . . which they are, which I love The thing is that a lot of FL do miss out on exclusives, as they may not be aware of the kick-starter. I'm still a little miffed I can never help others by breeding my own kittens, as I totally missed out on getting a panther, and games need to be relatively self-contained (in the sense that a player should never be locked out of content because they haven't played another game, or contributed financially to another game whose kickstarter they may not even know exists) . . . this is fairer, as long-term fans of FL aren't unfairly locked out of content. Here's the problem I have with this. Kickstarter rewards aren't supposed to be "fair." They're supposed to be an incentive to donate money. By stripping them away in the interest of "fairness", all FBG is going to do is lose money on the kickstarter. Why is FBG AND potential donators BOTH losing out on something they want just so someone who joins the game a year later doesn't have to be disappointed they missed out on a single item (one out of MANY that they are going to be locked out of anyway, due to game mechanics) the preferable option? Since when should "making sure someone doesn't feel bad a year later" be more important than "making money" as the goal of a kickstarter? I mean, the whole "fairness" thing could be applied to any of the rewards offered. Suppose I'm someone who really REALLY wants to design a character in Sunless Skies, but I don't have that kind of money. Is that fair? Should they get rid of that reward if it isn't? What if I DO have that kind of money but don't find out about the kickstarter until it's over? Is that fair? Should the reward be removed because that might happen? Obviously I don't want such a thing (I wouldn't want FBG to be screwed out of money they could have gotten by offering such a reward, or people who can afford the reward to miss out on it, all because I feel bad I can't also obtain it). If I'm not going to get it either way, what good does taking it away from everyone else do? Same goes for Fallen London-based incentives. The social participation idea is cute, and it's nice of FBG to offer something for people who can't donate to take part in, but having those be the ONLY FL based rewards......it kind of comes across like "not only are we not going to offer incentives for FL players to donate, but we don't want their money PERIOD. But hey, here's some busy work for them to do on the side so they don't feel left out." Also, unlike monetary transactions, which are guaranteed to provide the desired item once completed, you may not even get these rewards if enough other people don't also participate. And if you do, EVERYONE gets them, regardless of whether they lifted a finger to help or not. And since they're rewards distributed to every single person, they won't be nearly as valuable or as unique as something you could "purchase" for yourself by donating actual money to the kickstarter. I do think that any FL based reward should be "contained," in that, the presence or lack of it won't affect any other game but your own. A cool item or companion, a self contained bit of story, etc. No one wants to see another player's progress in a storylet brought to a screeching and irreversible halt because they don't have an item or quality they could only obtain through a kickstarter event five years ago. That truly would be unfair. But I'm guessing that would be easy to avoid. It's certainly possible I speak only for myself here. But it's also possible I speak for many others, including people who don't read/post here...all of whom wish to make a mutually beneficial transaction with FBG. I only ask that the people behind the kickstarter consider the idea.
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Diptych Administrator Posts: 3493 1/21/2017	Well, they're not just doing the social rewards for giggles, or so people "don't feel left out." They'll get people talking about the Kickstarter, provide publicity, attract more pledges. That's a direct material benefit - following it up with a "wos just havin a larf soz lol" would be a PR disaster, as well as rude, and I wouldn't suspect FBG of either. Regarding the backer rewards... I don't envy FBG the responsibility of deciding those, 'cause if you go back and read some of the comments on the Sunless Sea KS, people were extremely nasty about them. Any in-game reward content was decried as a ripoff, a rort, criminality of the highest order. And, well, they'll just as freely be accused of same for not offering said content. I'd be tempted to just have those in camp A sort things out directly with those in camp B, and not come back 'til they've come up with a clear consensus. -- Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron. Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/23/2017	When planning a Kickstarter it's bad form to release all of your stretch goals and social goals upfront. We have balanced the whole campaign, including the currently-unseen goals, and will reveal them throughout the campaign when initial goals are met. The implication in revealing a Fallen London social reward is that there will be further ones. We predict that we'll reach 2,000 backers in the first week, so of course we have to release the Royal Society information straight away. I hope that goes some way to explaining, as I can't really tell you any more. I hope you'll trust that we're doing the best we can to make the KS interesting to a wide range of players, and that we have fun ideas in store. It's our fun ideas you're interested in, I hope! -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/19/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: We recognise how much it sucks to find out about a Kickstarter bonus after the Kickstarter, and we didn't want to perpetuate that by offering something similar again. Oh no, that's not what I meant at all! I'm not angry at FBG for offering the panther and falcon as kickstarter rewards. I've only been playing for a year and a half, and so I simply missed those kickstarters because I didn't know of their existence (and probably wouldn't have cared at the time if I had because, like I said, I didn't play FL back then). That's just the luck of the draw and I'd never hold it against anyone who did get them because they were around for the kickstarter and I wasn't. All I meant was that their existence gave me incentive to want to contribute to any future FBG kickstarters and so I was eagerly looking forward to supporting this one. I see nothing wrong with offering a single, unique item to FL players who backed the kickstarter. It's a reward, like any other, and is no more unfair than any other reward offered through the kickstarter. And it's a great incentive for people who only play FL (like me) to still want to support Sunless Skies. Like I said, the previous two companion rewards made me downright eager to support this kickstarter (and indeed, any future FBG kickstarters). I do hope you'll reconsider. I'm a FL only player, but I've still got money I'd like to give you. And I know I'm not the only one edited by Kukapetal on 1/19/2017
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dov Posts: 2580 1/19/2017	There are rewards from the Silver Tree kickstarter I would have liked to have, had I known about the campaign at the time. But this never caused me to resent the fact that these exist. I very much liked the type of rewards in the Sunless Sea kickstarter - I thought they were well balanced, and provided incentives both in SS and in FL. I definitely chose my level of contribution then based on the expected FL rewards, as well as participating in the closed Beta. The rewards listed here for Sunless Skies do not speak to me as much. I have no need for a second copy of the game, for example. And I won't pay 45 extra pounds just for a T-shirt (the diff between the 30 pound and 75 pound tiers). This might not be a fair comparison, of course, as I can't know the impact the old Sunless Sea rewards had on the campaign and how feasible such would be for FBG to implement/support, but here's a quick comparison of some of the lower tier rewards: [spoiler] Sunless Sea: 10: Game + credits + digital map 15: + lore book 20: + closed beta 30: + Parabolan Panther in both SS and FL 50: + Pirate Poet in SS + Dadd Wing in FL 80: + The Cladery Heart in SS + the Surgeon's Child in FL Sunless Skies 15: Game + DLC 30: + extra game copy + credits + lore book + soundtrack 75: + T-shirt [/spoiler] I'll almost certainly donate at some level (because I want to support such projects by FBG), but I haven't seen any reward listed (yet) which seems right to me. Just my $0.02. YMMV. ---- edited by dov on 1/19/2017 -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Estelle Knoht Posts: 1751 1/18/2017	Seems to be an oversight, but some of the higher tiers only have one copies. Might want to fix that! Some people might not like having a second copy attached to their bundle of game and lorebook and soundtrack. Possibly? But the price is pretty nice, with or without the second copy, so no complaints from me. Suggestion: For the social goals, you might want to reveal one goodie for Sunless Sea players as well. Right off the bat, there's a goal for content expansion in Skies, and some coffee in FL, but nothing directly relate to the players of Seas (and some of them might not come for a return visit if they don't see something for them.) Best to clarify that the Backer DLC Reward is purely cosmetic and not something that will make your friends feel missing out if you are gifting them a copy. -- Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady. I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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suinicide Posts: 2409 1/20/2017	The social rewards are to draw more attention to SSkies, and hopefully more backers. Most FL players probably want the game, so there's not as much of a need to appeal to them. But rewarding them for bringing new people into the game appeals to them and gives more backers. On the stream today they talked about how many of the things are up in the air, you've stuck with FBG this long because of their writing, I think you can trust they'll keep it up for the master's secret or whatever else they add. This also lets FL fans show their support, and earn new stories, even if they lack money or don't want SSkies. edited by suinicide on 1/20/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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John Moose Posts: 276 1/20/2017	I myself wouldn't plan a KS to be backed by people with no intent to actually use the finished product. I think keeping the games separate so we can decide which game we pay for and how much, without these getting mixed up - 100€ for a few FL stories and a new pet is an incredibly bad deal to anyone backing the KS just for those extras. This way the FL crew will keep making FL content, the SSk crew will make SSk content, and we'll put as much money into each as we want without being forced to support both or neither. I mean really, the FL crew puts out content as fast as they can in any case, so we'd be just asking for the opportunity to pay 100€ for content that otherwise comes at the cost of 7€/month and the odd 30 fate story now and then.
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Diptych Administrator Posts: 3493 1/21/2017	Kukapetal wrote: A tidbit of lore of unknown value (is the Masters secret going to be something cool to find out or is it going to be something silly like "Mr. Apples likes getting his feet tickled by rubbery men"? I don't think FBG would offer a piece of lore as a reward just to reveal something inconsequential and laugh at us for being suckers. -- Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron. Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 1/24/2017	I would definitely rather have stuff like ambition updates and final profession levels etc much more than Kickstarter exclusives. thumbs up -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Silverias Posts: 123 1/23/2017	No joke, I was willing to donate up to 100 bucks if the reward included stuff for fallen london. I'm not really interested in a T-shirt, I'm barely interested in a second copy. I was very interested in Fallen London content. I said, in the KS survey, that the biggest misstep of the old KS was the fact that sunless sea players can't buy the backer rewards as DLC. This is true. It's annoying as crap that it's not available. However, big however! I love the temple club and the panther in FL. I am not a backer for those, but I love that I got a kitten in FL and can get invited to the club. These are COOL. They add social interactions that make the user feel special and useful and desirable to the social players of the game, but seriously, a HUGE incentive for my donation was something for Fallen London. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Silverias Stop by and say hello, I'm a correspondent if you need someone to teach your kids.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/20/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: We also want to make the rewards of this Kickstarter relevant to the new game, instead of committing ourselves to FL stories - which would definitely have to come at the expense of other Fallen London content. Getting involved in the social goals will unlock new things for FL players (including one item which would cross all three games, zomg etc). I get that extensive tie-ins could get disruptive, both for players who can't get access to the new content and for writers who have to write it at the expense of regular FL stories, but is a single unique Sunless Skies-themed companion really all that disruptive? And if it is, won't offering it as a social reward be equally as disruptive for the writers...except now FBG doesn't get any kickstarter money in return? Or is it going to be considerably less work for the people behind the scenes because it's essentially a freebie...and therefore, probably not as good as the previous kickstarter rewards? And my first reaction upon reading the new item is "Okay, it's given to every single player across three games and it's unlocked via cosplay photos. How good could this thing be? Certainly not as cool as the falcon or panther. Maybe I'm wrong, but since we know nothing about it, it doesn't do much to ease my mind or provide me with much incentive to try and get it. Of course, since the social goals don't actually make a difference in the kickstarter, maybe that's not a huge problem for FBG, but it still sucks for us. I mean, look at the rewards we do see. An extra port in a game I can't play? A discount at a store I'm not going to use? A tidbit of lore of unknown value (is the Masters secret going to be something cool to find out or is it going to be something silly like "Mr. Apples likes getting his feet tickled by rubbery men"? And some extra actions in FL (nice but hardly unique or lasting). These don't fill me with confidence that future FL rewards are going to anything to get excited about. Again, if I knew what all the rewards were, that might change, right now, I don't. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, just trying to explain how I feel and why that is. And that other people may feel the same. And I know that not everybody thinks like me and that some people are probably happy with the new changes but...these are mostly going to be people who aren't going to donate to the kickstarter. Prioritizing people who aren't going to donate to your kickstarter (either because they can't afford it or because they don't know about it) over people who would donate and WANT to, just seems like a weird way to run a kickstarter.
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Frederick Metzengerstein Posts: 69 1/20/2017	Firstly, allow me to add my voice to the others congratulating you on a very well written Kickstarter page. It's hard to describe exactly why it works, but it just does. The writing is interesting, funny and compelling. It provides plenty of new detail while leaving you with more new questions than answers. It is wide ranging. And the art is gorgeous. I am also very excited about the idea of past captains leaving their mark on the Wilderness; being remembered. I think this is a fascinating bold new addition to the SSea legacy mechanic. Mostly I think the rewards are fantastic, but I have to agree that no Fallen London (or SSea?) related rewards is a missed opportunity. Personally, I bear no malice or resentment over the fact that I missed the last two kickstarters. Backers were awarded cool items which, sure, I would have liked to have, but those offers they were before my time. Personally, I think there should be more connections between the Fallen London games, not less. Each game enriches the other, so why shouldn't the players of one be encouraged to support the development of another. I won't lie, the idea of new Fallen London content was what I was most looking forward to in this Kickstarter. BTW, the Royal Society thing is fantastic! Any chance you could provide more detail about what results different social accomplishments will generate?
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Màiread Posts: 385 1/20/2017	I haven't ever used kickstarter before, but this looks pretty good to me! In terms of the descriptions, the only thing I would say is lacking is a tagline like 'Lose your mind. Eat your crew' - something punchy, pithy and attractive that grabs attention and gives a sense of the atmosphere of the game. You might also want to make it clear that Skies is it's own world and story and you don't need to have played FL or SSea to enjoy it (assuming, of course, that this is the case!). I do also agree that the current reward tiers are not yet perfectly balanced. For myself, I'd be interested in the digital lore book, but I definitely wouldn't back the £30 tier as I have absolutely no use for a second copy - offering a £20/25 tier for one game and the book would be nice. More generally, the gap between the lower price points and the bigger ones seems pretty big. I appreciate that you can only offer a limited number of types of physical rewards (production being an absolute pain) and that you're keen not to have exclusive story stuff any more, so I'm not quite sure how you could bridge the gap, but the people I know who might consider donating definitely won't be willing to pay an extra £60 for a T-Shirt, but might well consider giving £35-50 for something unique. Congratulations on your excellent work on the game. It truly does look delicious. -- Màiread - Correspondent, composer, lover of cats. Can probably bake you a d__n fine cake. Useful Links: Traveller's Friend (Progress Tracker & Notability Calculator) \| phryne's Guide to Favours & Renown \| Peggy the Nowoman lived to see the Feast. Thank you for the memories, Snow Lady. I'm happy to accept most social actions except for lethal sparring and loitering suspiciously. Please challenge my plant! Currently not accepting calling cards.
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Gonen Posts: 817 1/18/2017	I'm sure you've thought about this, FBG team, so I would like to hear your thoughts on this: What about a small prize for the FL browser/iOS/Android game? Just like the Panther or Temple club. Would really like those, as FL is still my main game, played every single day, long after I've stopped with SS. I'm assuming a great portion of the fund raising will be from your fan base. Page looks great, concept is awesome. I'm kickstarter-convinced. Good luck! edited by Gonen on 1/18/2017 -- The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness. The long journey to eccentricity: On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 1/18/2017	I'm a little disappointed there's no backer tier (around 50 pounds I feel) giving something cool in FL. My wallet thanks you, though :P I do hope that if some stories impact later captains, there will still be a way to restart those stories without creating a completely new lineage. I do like being able to see all the possibilities, and being locked to one outcome would be annoying for both the story and trying to optimize. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/19/2017	Kukapetal wrote: Are there any plans to give people who pledge a unique Fallen London companion, like with the other games? I missed out on the Panther and Falcon because I was unaware of the existence of FBG at the time of those kickstarters, but have vowed not to miss out a third time :P We recognise how much it sucks to find out about a Kickstarter bonus after the Kickstarter, and we didn't want to perpetuate that by offering something similar again. However, there are future social rewards which you'd be very interested in. If they're unlocked by the community during the Kickstarter then they will be available to everyone - no more locking off of content-based exclusives. Reshemin wrote: Also, this seems like the place to ask: any plans to enable backing from within FL with fate, like it was back with Sunless Sea? If I remember the numbers correctly that was only a small minority back then but if it's not too much of a hassle to set up... Unfortunately not. It was about 3% of pledges last time, which means it would likely be <1% this time, but the administration burden of maintaining two backer lists would be the same. All pledges will go through Kickstarter, and if you can't back that way, the social goals mean you can still get involved! Edit: forgot to be blue edited by h4nchan on 1/19/2017 -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/20/2017	phryne wrote: re: previous posts complaining about the lack of in-game FL or SSea backer rewards. I was surprised by this too! Many people seem to be interested in getting such unique items, so I think FB should definitely add one or two reward levels like that. I also agree that the gaps between £30 and £75, as well as between £150 and £500 seem unnecessarily huge. Maybe put in a £50 level for a unique item/companion that appears in FL and SSea (like the Parabolan Panther), and a £250 level for a unique story in FL (like the Bespoke Stories from earlier Kickstarters)? I'm excited that you're excited! AAAAA! We learnt a lot from the last Kickstarter, and have worked really hard to balance the amount of work involved in delivering these rewards with our capacity as a studio. We want to deliver good work, in a timely manner, that's relevant and interesting to as many players as possible (remembering that these forums are frequented by maybe a couple of hundred core Fallen London players out of the 30,000 monthly players or 430,000 Sunless Sea owners). We also want to make the rewards of this Kickstarter relevant to the new game, instead of committing ourselves to FL stories - which would definitely have to come at the expense of other Fallen London content. Getting involved in the social goals will unlock new things for FL players (including one item which would cross all three games, zomg etc). On the t-shirt reward: international shipping would be £15 and is included in the reward price, does that make it seem any more possible? I can take the shipping out so the reward looks cheaper, but it would only be added to the basket. I'm going back and forth on this, all thoughts welcome. -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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phryne Posts: 1349 1/19/2017	OK, finally had enough time to read the whole thing! I'm determined to have something in the game named "Amarantyne" and £100 is about what I expected for that, so no complaints there. And getting a digital lore book on top would be awesome! I might even pay the extra £50 to name "something significant" but it's a lot of money for me and I'm not really interested in a printed star chart, so not sure yet. The whole thing about time being a commodity item that can be manufactured and sold is very intriguing. And, like Johnny Felix said above, this is awesome: Arriving at the major port in each region will save your game and your progress up to that point. If you set off to explore a new area and die before making port, you’ll be reset to the last major port and the map ahead will reshuffle for your new captain’s first voyage. When your captain dies, your next one will continue their legacy, inheriting a portion of their wealth and experience. Be warned, though - a captain’s actions are not erased when they die. Unlike in Sunless Sea, not all stories reset for a new captain. Many of the effects you've had on the world are remembered, and the achievements and follies of your earlier captains may haunt those that come after them. This is great! I've never played SSea in Merciless mode because dying means everything you did is wiped out completely. This sounds like a much better concept already! re: previous posts complaining about the lack of in-game FL or SSea backer rewards. I was surprised by this too! Many people seem to be interested in getting such unique items, so I think FB should definitely add one or two reward levels like that. I also agree that the gaps between £30 and £75, as well as between £150 and £500 seem unnecessarily huge. Maybe put in a £50 level for a unique item/companion that appears in FL and SSea (like the Parabolan Panther), and a £250 level for a unique story in FL (like the Bespoke Stories from earlier Kickstarters)? Very excited about this and totally determined to back! -- Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 1/22/2017	It does feel odd to me that there's no FL content from backing whatsoever. The only reward over 30 pounds that I care about whatsoever is the star map, and I'm not paying 150 pounds for a single item that might be sold again later. I'm not even sure whether I will spend 30 pounds as a second copy of the game is useless for me. If the issue is concerns over FL story rewards taking time away from Sunless Skies content, why would it have to be something as major as a story? I'd happily go from 30 to 40 pounds for the space equivalent of a Parabolan Panther item. As in, some equippable Sunless Skies-themed item appearing in both games, no story or additional content attached. I suspect that most of the time spent on the Parabolan Panther backer reward went to writing, coding, and testing the Panther's story and the kitten mechanics, rather than writing and implementing the Parabolan Panther companion itself. (If Failbetter can implement three items and related storylets for each FL faction converted to Renown, a single item for a Kickstarter reward should be well within possibility.) As for later arrivals missing out on backer rewards, isn't that the point of Kickstarter? The entire model relies on backers coughing up money for a final product that doesn't yet exist, may never exist in a form they want, and will cost less than most of the backer tiers. Giving backers something special to attract enough people is integral to the system, and often that something special is Kickstarter-exclusive. I'm disappointed that I missed the FL content for backing The Silver Tree and Sunless Sea, but I'm not angry it exists - I just hope it goes on sale eventually and enjoy the rest of the game in the meantime. Backer-exclusive FL content is barely different than all the free items no longer available, yet I don't see people complaining about being denied Forbidden Map-Fragments or Primitive Hats or Archaeologist's Hats or Marvellous Model Ships and so on. If exclusive content is really that big a concern, why not make something where the exclusivity is time-limited? For example, let's use my hypothetical 40 pound backer tier. Backers at that tier and above get a Space Telescope in FL, a Watchful +5 weapon: decent but nowhere near best in slot. Then after a set length of time - say, when Sunless Skies is officially released - anyone can purchase this Telescope for a higher price. (AKA higher than ten pounds, but I'm not sure how much Fate that would be in practice.) To keep the sense of backers getting something special, give them all a metaquality thanking them for the support. Thus backers get something unique, and other players aren't locked out forever. "I supported Victorian Space Imperialism and all I got was this lousy metaquality" That's essentially the same structure as Exceptional Stories have already. Anyone in the right place at the right time with the right degree of financial security has an incentive to spend money, and those who already would spend money get something in return. Latecomers or those who didn't spend money can still get the reward, if they're willing to wait for it to be available and then spend a higher amount. While I've seen occasional complaints about the ES model, the objections weren't about the players supporting FBG financially getting a reward with a time-based incentive. (I think the complaints were mostly concerns over a monthly story taking time away from free FL content, which wouldn't apply to a one-time small reward.) So yeah. Myself and assorted others would definitely be interested in a FL backer reward, and would care enough to give more money (or to give in the first place). The delayed-availability ES model is a compromise between "backers get something special" and "non-backers are locked out", and I bet there's other models I haven't thought of. A simple reward wouldn't have a big time cost, so why not offer one when it would attract more backers and a higher chance for the Kickstarter to succeed? -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Mordaine Barimen Posts: 670 1/27/2017	Please don't tie it directly to a backer's social media activity. I detest social media and would be saddened that I couldn't participate over that sort of requirement. -- I'm sorry, but due to policy clarifications, I will no longer be giving detailed mechanics advice on the forums. If you still need help, try the IRC channel.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/23/2017	Without spoiling the nature of some of the higher social rewards, I think you'll be excited. -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Akernis Posts: 255 1/23/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: Without spoiling the nature of some of the higher social rewards, I think you'll be excited. Excitement intensifies -- Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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Pumpkinhead Posts: 516 1/25/2017	Kukapetal wrote: FL kickstarter exclusive companion: Takes time and energy away from writing new FL content, is unfair to those who will be locked out of it after the kickstarter ends SSk kickstarter exclusive companion(s): Doesn't take much time and energy away from writing new SSk content, is not unfair to those who will be locked out of it after the kickstarter ends. I'm sorry, I really have accepted the decision, I'm just...having trouble understanding the reasoning behind what is essentially the same item for both games being treated so differently. edited by Kukapetal on 1/25/2017 Because this is a SSkies kickstarter, not a FL one. I think they're just trying to keep the games separate. -- McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!) Amanda Albright is a spoiler now, like she always wanted.
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EdmondDantes Posts: 11 1/29/2017	A further question: from the Diabolical Pack upwards, it appears that backers will have access to 2 copies of Sunless Skies and 2 Kickstarter-exclusive scouts. My question is whether the 2nd copy of Sunless Skies can be gifted to a friend, and if so, will that person receive the 2nd Kickstarter-exclusive Scout as well? I have a friend who wishes he could back Sunless Skies but can't due to financial constraints, so I figured that if I got the Diabolical Pack, I could gift him base game plus the Scout. Would be cool if he could get the Mascot as well, but given that the Diabolical Pack seems to include just the one Mascot, I assume that isn't the case? edited by EdmondDantes on 1/29/2017
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Guest 1/25/2017	Hmm. The addition of an ingame mascot is nice (although I'm still sad about the no-FL content decision), but if I may make a suggestion: add a tier that gives the mascot + ship + single copy and price it at 25 pounds or something. Or I guess that's pricing the mascot at 10 pounds, which sounds a little excessive, so maybe throw in the digital rewards as well. I like the idea of a demonic rabbit gnawing angrily at the captain's chair, but I personally have no use for two copies of the game. I'd rather splurge adding more fancy stuff to a single game than a second copy that I'll never use. edited by nightday on 1/25/2017
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phryne Posts: 1349 1/25/2017	You can't imagine how much the Diabolical Rabbit made me smirk. "You wascal wabbit!" -- Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/27/2017	It won't be connected with backer level this time! We'll manage it separately - more news after the KS is over. -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/23/2017	Again, thanks for explaining. I appreciate it.
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Lord Garuda Posts: 102 1/23/2017	Hey all, I pretty much registered to say that I enjoy Sunless Sea a lot (I think I might have 300+ hours on Steam?) and I've been interested in seeing this game come to fruition. In particular I wanted to say that I'm really excited and a bit scared that there are stories with lingering consequences between games and captains. On the one hand, I've done some absolutely atrocious and game ending things in Sunless Sea so that I could see the text associated with them, and it would be a bit sad to have to restart completely to see new options. On the other hand, this is unexplored territory for me and I'm curious to see where you all go with it. There are a few other thoughts that I have regarding the Kickstarter, but I just wanted to say thanks for making one of my favorite games and that I'll definitely be funding if I can. I live in America so the conversion from our dollars to pounds is not insignificant for the higher rewards, but I can tighten my best for a couple of weeks if need be. -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Cora%20Seacoale - A Correspondent working towards her Heart's Desire. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Ronald%20Valente - A Rat-Catcher hunting the most dangerous prey.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/24/2017	Significant (but not final) update to rewards today, gang! -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Mr Sables Posts: 597 1/19/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: We recognise how much it sucks to find out about a Kickstarter bonus after the Kickstarter, and we didn't want to perpetuate that by offering something similar again. However, there are future social rewards which you'd be very interested in. If they're unlocked by the community during the Kickstarter then they will be available to everyone - no more locking off of content-based exclusives. I'm actually very grateful for that. I'm happy to try and aim for the social rewards, and - were I able to play the game - I'd donate in a heartbeat. The prices are great, while the rewards for each donation are very fair/proportionate, but I think the rewards need to be exclusively (or close enough) to the game that's being kick-started . . . which they are, which I love The thing is that a lot of FL do miss out on exclusives, as they may not be aware of the kick-starter. I'm still a little miffed I can never help others by breeding my own kittens, as I totally missed out on getting a panther, and games need to be relatively self-contained (in the sense that a player should never be locked out of content because they haven't played another game, or contributed financially to another game whose kickstarter they may not even know exists) . . . this is fairer, as long-term fans of FL aren't unfairly locked out of content. I think - if people do want FL exclusives, which I would be all for - it'd be better to do a kick-starter or fund-raiser for "Fallen London" in specific, with an advertisement in the game banner . . . especially as cost could be an issue; at what price do you put the FL bonuses, and what if it's slightly beyond the price-range that fans are able to pay, etc.? The rewards as they stand for the new game are great; t-shirts are extremely popular at the moment, just look at companies like Lootcrate who have them as a fundamental part of their sets, and I think the variety of rewards suits every kind of potential player/backer . . . I'm just very glad that players aren't being locked out of content (or feeling obliged to contribute) because FL rewards are attached to a totally different project . . . it feels more respectful of the fanbase That being said, I'll try to contribute something regardless . . . I'll have to go back and check, but if we can donate any amount - so say even just £5 or so - that'd be absolutely perfect. Edit: Can we donate any amount or only the set amounts? edited by Robin Alexander on 1/19/2017
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Johnny Felix Posts: 180 1/19/2017	Ok, the best thing for me I took from the page is that in SSky not all stories will reset on the demise of a captain. That was perhaps my biggest peeve with SSea. Still, I'm waffling whether to support this kickstarter. There is nothing in the backer rewards that really interest me besides the game itself, and that I can buy later through the usual channels. I'm just not a T-shirt kind of guy. A Fallen London-related reward, like the panther or the Temple club would likely bring me over the fence. But if it's not meant to be this time, well... I'll probably decide in the last hours of the KS. -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Johnny%20Felix
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/20/2017	suinicide wrote: The social rewards are to draw more attention to SSkies, and hopefully more backers. Most FL players probably want the game, so there's not as much of a need to appeal to them. But rewarding them for bringing new people into the game appeals to them and gives more backers. On the stream today they talked about how many of the things are up in the air, you've stuck with FBG this long because of their writing, I think you can trust they'll keep it up for the master's secret or whatever else they add. This also lets FL fans show their support, and earn new stories, even if they lack money or don't want SSkies. edited by suinicide on 1/20/2017 If they don't need to appeal to FL players because most of them are going to buy the game anyway, why offer FL based incentives at all, even as social rewards? The social rewards could be given more generic appeal to draw in other people besides just FL players, if bringing in new backers is so important. More people who want said social rewards=more people trying to bring in backers. Since they're designed with a small subset of people (those who can't donate and those who aren't around for the kickstarter) in mind, they can't be that important. That's why it feels like a pat on the head and being told "okay, you can play too. Now go sit on the bench and yell 'go team!' Don't worry, everyone gets a 2 inch tall trophy at the end of the game(so does everyone who signs up for the team in the future. They get a trophy commemorating their participation in this particular game), so it doesn't matter how much you actually play. Why are you frowning?" I'm fine with offering stuff for people who can't donate, but not with forcing everyone to be in that group. I mean, I was going to pledge up to a hundred dollars if there was a cool FL item offered. Now I have no incentive to donate anything. I don't get anything, FBG doesn't get anything the people who aren't going to donate to the kickstarter wouldn't have gotten that item either way...I just fail to see how anyone benefits.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/21/2017	No, obviously no one would plan a kickstarter intending for it to be backed solely by people who don't want the game. But bringing in extra help from non players who want the FL themed reward can only help. What's so wrong about adding extra incentive for people who might not otherwise donate? And if you think whatever deal is being offered is a bad one, then you don't have to donate. I don't know why people seem to think offering a single, self-contained kickstarter reward for FL is some sort of scheme to force FL players to support extensive Sunless Skies content, or that it will cripple the people behind FL to the point where they can't give us new content. phryne wrote: It's absolutely none of my business and don't be mad at me, but here's something I don't understand: if you were willing to donate 100 $ for a game you can't even play, why don't you instead save up a bit more money and buy a new computer/notebook on which you can actually play the game once it comes out in 2019 or whenever? Wouldn't that be much more intelligent? Because I honestly want a FL based reward more than I want the actual game. I'm not a gamer (hence why having a crappy computer isn't a big deal to me), and FL is really the only game I play and one of the few nonessential things I spend my money on. I normally wouldn't have given a kickstarter like this a second thought, but the idea of getting something cool for FL is enough of an incentive that I'd be willing to spend my FL money on it. Probably not the thriftiest thing in the world but....eh....it's really not. You're probably right. Maybe I really am an idiot :P edited by Kukapetal on 1/21/2017
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Reshemin Posts: 226 1/21/2017	Kukapetal wrote: Maybe I really am an idiot :P Wanting to give them money for them doing something you like, while knowing they're gonna use it for something else you don't give a d___ about? Nah. Doesn't really fit with my definition of 'idiot'. I don't think you are. Actually, a great many people do that all the time, I think there's some thing called 'connomy' or such based on that concept. I believe it's pretty simple... that little extra bit shouldn't hurt. Can't see anything getting damaged, here... there is no negative impact whatsoever in including some tiny tidbit of FL-based thingymabob. I would expect a ROI >0 there. So I'd think it should be just a simple answer to a not-so-complex question. But that's of course just me. I don't necessarily know what I believe to know.
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Pumpkinhead Posts: 516 1/20/2017	I think they're probably just trying to be efficient. As Suinicide said, a lot of FL players are going to donate anyway, so it's not like they need to offer more incentives. Even though adding a unique item in probably wouldn't be all that hard, it is one more thing for them to worry about for not all that much benefit (for them). While I agree that something like the Parabolan Panther would be nice, I frankly would rather have them focus on larger things, like making an awesome game and expanding FL. The more time they spend on little stuff, the less they have to spend time on the big stuff. Kukapetal wrote: I mean, I was going to pledge up to a hundred dollars if there was a cool FL item offered. Now I have no incentive to donate anything. I don't get anything, FBG doesn't get anything the people who aren't going to donate to the kickstarter wouldn't have gotten that item either way...I just fail to see how anyone benefits. But you do get something. You get Sunless Skies. This isn't a FL kickstarter. It's a Sunless Skies kickstarter. If your only incentive for donating was getting a unique item in FL, then the kickstarter isn't really aimed at you. It's aimed at people that want Sunless Skies. Just my thoughts. I can understand where you're coming from too. I certainly would have enjoyed a unique item, but I don't think a lack of one is dealbreaking. edited by Pumpkinhead on 1/20/2017 -- McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!) Amanda Albright is a spoiler now, like she always wanted.
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Vavakx Nonexus Posts: 892 1/18/2017	I was hoping for a possibility of more FL-related content, but it seems like there won't be any of that in the backer tiers. Which is a good or a bad thing depending on your outlook on things. I adore the seemingly increased captain customization shown in one of the pictures. Is a separate captain portrait editor a possibility at some point? The Facet system looks promising, if somewhat likely to make SS the S characters somewhat repetitive. But I like the idea a whole lot. All the lore + descriptions are v tempting in general, and I might donate a small amount just to further the Royal Society & get the game later on. -- Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own. Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness. Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/31/2017	yoy1zoz2mom3 wrote: Will the T-shirt be a kickstarter exclusive or will it eventually come to the failbetter shop? Also, will the game be for every OS eventually, like Sunless Sea? Finally, if Drownies are those who believe they have drowned, what do you call those who believe they have been exposed to vacuum? The t-shirt is exclusive to the campaign. The game will be for Mac, Windows and Linux at release. (Don't ask me, I'm not a writer, I have gone halfway to ground trying to finish this Kickstarter, and would only say something stupid like what you're all thinking.) -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Wiwo Posts: 365 2/1/2017	Better get some stretch goals in place ASAP -- Wiwo. Almost certainly not a squid in a cunningly tailored suit. Surely. Care for some cider? Here's how to ask me for some. Strange pranks strongly preferred. Care to pet a Heptagoat? Too bad. It doesn't do anything (probably). I'm a Correspondent and would be delighted to lecture at your orphanage.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/30/2017	Mordaine Barimen wrote: Please don't tie it directly to a backer's social media activity. I detest social media and would be saddened that I couldn't participate over that sort of requirement. I'm not sure why we'd tie it to someone's level of activity on social media - have you seen another studio doing that? At most we would tweet to let backers know that there's an opportunity to get involved with the beta, but given that we have Kickstarter messaging to communicate to backers, we'll mostly use that. Optimatum wrote: It doesn't seem clear right now whether only one Mascot is intended, but hopefully that'll be clarified in the full Kickstarter. The idea is that everyone who gets a copy of the game through the Kickstarter, either by backing directly or receiving a gift, gets a copy that has the Kickstarter exclusive Scout. The Mascot is at a higher tier, so it's just for the backer. -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Mr Sables Posts: 597 1/18/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: Thanks for the feedback! Everything in social rewards would be released to all players. Is there anything specifically in the copy which makes you think otherwise, or is it just not stated precisely enough? I think almost everything was very clear. It may have just been my interpretation of 'everyone' that made me think such social media rewards were locked to backers, as the whole page is about the game in general and a list of what donations will earn what rewards . . . in hindsight, it may be just me that misunderstood that, as 'everyone' should mean 'everyone', so it probably isn't really an issue (sorry for the trouble)! I just personally wasn't sure if FL members were included in that; now that I know, I'll definitely take a far closer look at the social media methods of helping and try to do whatever I can to help! Stuff like following, sending in photographs, and watching the live-stream is very doable! edited by Robin Alexander on 1/18/2017
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suinicide Posts: 2409 1/18/2017	Very exciting! I'd love it if the world wasn't static, and honestly I'm about to go on a rant but it looks like everything I disliked about SS is being fixed. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Akernis Posts: 255 1/19/2017	I can already feel my excitement rising Oddly, the character creator was the thing that made me the most giddy with anticipation. I have always liked FL style of a silhouetted portraits for the player's character, but found the selection rather limited. It's great to see that it appears expanded from the original one. Fingers crossed that such an expanded selection / character creator will get adopted to Fallen London as well. As for the game itself I really have no feedback beyond incomprehensible noises of praise. I am eager to see the game and will certainly add my support to the Kickstarter, to whatever degree I can afford. I won't be able to assist with the social rewards, but I really do hope that they get met, it'll be fascinating. . edited by Akernis on 1/19/2017 -- Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 1/19/2017	Let me start by saying that the overall presentation of the game, rough and unfinished as the description is, makes Sunless Skies sound fantastic! I really enjoyed reading it. I think it's better than the Sunless Seas kickstarter description, which was also pretty cool. Tiny suggestion, how Facets impact skills could use some minor clarification. Hannah Flynn wrote: Kukapetal wrote: Are there any plans to give people who pledge a unique Fallen London companion, like with the other games? I missed out on the Panther and Falcon because I was unaware of the existence of FBG at the time of those kickstarters, but have vowed not to miss out a third time :P We recognise how much it sucks to find out about a Kickstarter bonus after the Kickstarter, and we didn't want to perpetuate that by offering something similar again. I was looking forward to some unique items too, but I understand what you're saying. That doesn't really match my experience though, as I never felt resentful over missing out on the Kickstarter content. It actually made me enthusiastic for any future kickstarters as they would give me the opportunity to join in and get something special too. It's similar to how missing out on previous things in Fallen London actually makes me more interested in future developments. If I might be cold blooded however, with no Fallen London content the offers between 30 pounds and 100 pounds seem a little weak to me, you know? Like, I'm not really much of a t-shirt collector... So if I wanted to go over 30 pounds but had a ceiling of 100, any contribution would just be to give you guys more money to make the game, regardless of the backer benefits. And the backer benefits are about getting money, so if I'm kinda left cold by what's on offer between 30 and 100, other people might be as well and that might reduce contributions. The social rewards are really cool though! I particularly like the whole Royal Society recruitment drive! I'll definitely do my part to help you guys get as many backers as possible, because I really want to see how opulent we can make the place. Do you guys have some kind of plan or equation for how 2000 + X backers will translate into such and such levels of opulence? edited by Anne Auclair on 1/19/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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lady ciel Posts: 2548 1/19/2017	I will back this because I love Failbetter's work and Sunless Skies sounds amazing but none of the backer rewards are appealing to me. So I probably won't be giving a lot, unfortunately. Are you going to use Humble Bundle again? It is not mentioned in the preview -- ciel Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things. No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible. storynexus name - reveurciel
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/19/2017	lady ciel wrote: Are you going to use Humble Bundle again? It is not mentioned in the preview We're offering a DRM-free version through GOG this time. -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/20/2017	Kickstarters are funded mostly by people who want to play the game. I don't disagree with this. But FBG had a great idea on their hands...they offered something that made people who weren't interested in their new games at all STILL want to donate to them. Heck, it had some of those people downright looking forward to donating to upcoming kickstarter. The kickstarter of a game they weren't going to play. I repeat, they've got people who don't even WANT the game willing to throw money at the kickstarter for said game and they......essentially say "keep it. We don't need it." I don't understand it, but...I guess I'll do my best to respect it.
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phryne Posts: 1349 1/20/2017	Kukapetal wrote: Heck, I don't even have any interest in the game since my old dinosaur of a computer would probably explode if I tried to run it, but will still pledge if there's a unique FL companion offered. [...] I mean, I was going to pledge up to a hundred dollars if there was a cool FL item offered. Now I have no incentive to donate anything. I don't get anything. It's absolutely none of my business and don't be mad at me, but here's something I don't understand: if you were willing to donate 100 $ for a game you can't even play, why don't you instead save up a bit more money and buy a new computer/notebook on which you can actually play the game once it comes out in 2019 or whenever? Wouldn't that be much more intelligent? -- Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Pumpkinhead Posts: 516 1/21/2017	Assumedly FBG considered it, and decided against for probably good reasons. It's not like they're negligent or lazy; quite the contrary. From Hannah's post above, it looks like they did consider an exclusive FL thingymabob, but they decided it's too much of a hassle for not a very large ROI. As she said, most people will know FBG through Sunless Sea rather than FL, so they're likely to get the most return by focusing their efforts on the general gaming community instead of FL. Also, a lot of people have been saying "it's not that hard to add a FL exclusive." We're not FBG. We don't know how hard it is or isn't. Sure, they did it twice, but that might just mean they've learned it's a huge hassle. I'm going to trust them and assume that since they're not doing it, it actually takes a lot of effort. It's not like they're lazy, so if it were easy I'm sure they'd do it in a heartbeat. edited by Pumpkinhead on 1/21/2017 -- McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!) Amanda Albright is a spoiler now, like she always wanted.
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Emain Ablach Posts: 348 1/20/2017	I find the page very nice, the information is displayed clearly, it shows how intriguing and interesting the game and its world will be. The backer knows what he'll involve himself with. The rewards seem ok as well. The only real "flaw" I see is a lack of "physical" reward reminding the content of the game itself, the only example I see being the printed chart of the Wilderness. Maybe some coins (echos ?), or a captain certificate with the name of the backer ? Or any item specific to Sunless Skies and not expensive to produce ? This kind of rewards really motivate me and the people I know who are backers. EDIT : space trains ! SPACE TRAINS ! Oh. My. God. It's just soooo cool. Remind me of Galaxy Express 999. edited by Emain Ablach on 1/20/2017 -- Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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Barse Posts: 706 1/24/2017	I read all of the reasons and tuned into the most recent podcast after leaving my feedback on the KS page, and now that I properly understand more of the reasons for why certain things have or have not been done (especially Fallen London content - while a lot of people were expecting it and were prepared to pay for it, when it comes down to a choice between KS stories or more proper, full-fledged and free stories being released as a part of the normal FL schedule, it all makes far more sense), most of my concerns have been addressed and/or ameliorated. In addition, the extra things that have been added recently seem super cool! The addition of an extra tier between £30 and £75 is a great sight, and the cosmetic extras are a really good way to assuage some fan's collect-em-all desire to own all content without eating up as much dev time as writing whole stories. TL;DR: I think the whole page looks fab now, and I don't really have any more concerns. Bring on Feb, and huge kudos for balancing a lot of our often completely opposing wishes! :P (Edit: not to suggest that the art doesn't take time and money - Paul's work is always fantastic and I shudder to think how much work goes into a game like Sunless Sea for a team of one or two artists! Just that it'll take less time and money, for less staff, than art&words&gameplay balances.) edited by Barselaar on 1/24/2017 -- The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Malcolm Harris Posts: 35 1/24/2017	I was quite pleased to learn that Planescape: Torment is an influence. The game had one of a few worlds that I've read of which have matched Fallen London in its bizarre wonder.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/21/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Regarding the backer rewards... I don't envy FBG the responsibility of deciding those, 'cause if you go back and read some of the comments on the Sunless Sea KS, people were extremely nasty about them. Any in-game reward content was decried as a ripoff, a rort, criminality of the highest order. And, well, they'll just as freely be accused of same for not offering said content. I'd be tempted to just have those in camp A sort things out directly with those in camp B, and not come back 'til they've come up with a clear consensus. Well, if that's the case, I can understand why they did it. Still disappointed, but I understand why it would be a hassle they'd rather avoid.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 1/25/2017	Kukapetal wrote: FL kickstarter exclusive companion: Takes time and energy away from writing new FL content, is unfair to those who will be locked out of it after the kickstarter ends SSk kickstarter exclusive companion(s): Doesn't take much time and energy away from writing new SSk content, is not unfair to those who will be locked out of it after the kickstarter ends. I'm sorry, I really have accepted the decision, I'm just...having trouble understanding the reasoning behind what is essentially the same item for both games being treated so differently. edited by Kukapetal on 1/25/2017 Opportunity costs. Failbetter only has so much time and attention, and they have to divide it between Fallen London, Sunless Sea, the Silver Tree, and Sunless Sky. The Fallen London plate is full, so adding more Fallen London content would mean something has to be subtracted to make up for it. Plus, they don't seem to think that offering exclusive Fallen London kickstarter content is the best or most efficient way to attract kickstarter backers, build the Failbetter brand, or contribute to Fallen London, based on their plans and survey information. That's how I read Hannah's posts anyway. Kukapetal wrote: Why does it have to be taken away from those of us who do? Also, nothing has been taken away, what is being offered is just slightly different from previous kickstarters, that's all. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/23/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: Funnily enough, we did a large survey about this Kickstarter which was answered by about 3,700 people, coming from these forums, the IRC and discords, reddit, facebook, twitter, tumblr, the Steam forums and through the link being shared from those platforms. The survey didn't include questions about how much people would be willing to pay (it's deeply subjective and might not have reflected the value of the rewards or taken into account things that people can't be expected to know about, like fulfilment costs), but otherwise the results of the survey were used to build the Kickstarter into what you see now. Okay, fair enough. Thanks for explaining. Can I ask a couple of other minor questions? What's the reason for not revealing all the social rewards right away? And if the social rewards are supposed to be for FL players to unlock FL rewards, why is the best one (that we can see) Sunless Skies content (the extra port)? I'm curious as to the reasoning behind these decisions.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/25/2017	FL kickstarter exclusive companion: Takes time and energy away from writing new FL content, is unfair to those who will be locked out of it after the kickstarter ends SSk kickstarter exclusive companion(s): Doesn't take much time and energy away from writing new SSk content, is not unfair to those who will be locked out of it after the kickstarter ends. I'm sorry, I really have accepted the decision, I'm just...having trouble understanding the reasoning behind what is essentially the same item for both games being treated so differently. edited by Kukapetal on 1/25/2017
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suinicide Posts: 2409 1/25/2017	They don't want people who don't want SSkies dropping 100 dollars to out of obligation to fallen london, this is actually really nice of them and I'd actually like to say thanks for this. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/25/2017	If people who don't want SSk also don't want to donate just to get something for FL they don't have to. Why does it have to be taken away from those of us who do? Why can't people just not purchase something they don't feel is worth the money? If you're not going to get it either way, what difference does it make if somebody else can?
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suinicide Posts: 2409 1/25/2017	Kukapetal wrote: If people who don't want SSk also don't want to donate just to get something for FL they don't have to. Why does it have to be taken away from those of us who do? Why can't people just not purchase something they don't feel is worth the money? If you're not going to get it either way, what difference does it make if somebody else can? What i am trying to say is I would rather not drop a hundred dollars for fallen london stories and I am thankful I don't have to do that because that's quite a bit for one purchase. Locking FL content behind such a massive paywall starts to reek of the "fee to pay" problem and I'm glad FBG isn't doing that. edited by suinicide on 1/25/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/25/2017	I'd agree if it were a bunch of extensive content, but I'm just talking about a single kickstarter reward. And the paywall might not even be that massive...the amount I gave was just what I myself would have been willing to pay.
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 1/29/2017	EdmondDantes wrote: A further question: from the Diabolical Pack upwards, it appears that backers will have access to 2 copies of Sunless Skies and 2 Kickstarter-exclusive scouts. My question is whether the 2nd copy of Sunless Skies can be gifted to a friend, and if so, will that person receive the 2nd Kickstarter-exclusive Scout as well? That's the idea! Two copies of the game with the Scout, to be used as backers see fit. It doesn't seem clear right now whether only one Mascot is intended, but hopefully that'll be clarified in the full Kickstarter. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Socratease Posts: 32 1/29/2017	Any plans for whether the game will be as modable as Sunless Sea? -- Eyes turned NORTH.
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/23/2017	I was thinking some more about what Sir Fredrick said about people on opposite side of the issue needing to come to a consensus, and wondering if maybe there's a way to deal with that issue. How about a poll? You could ask "would you be willing to donate money to the SSk kickstarter for a unique FL reward?" and then , as a followup question "how much would you be willing to donate for such a reward?" That way, FBG could find out how much money they could potentially receive or miss out on by offering/not offering such a reward. If it's a lot, they'd know that offering something like this is a good idea for the kickstarter, and if it's not enough to make a difference, they'll know that offering such a reward is more hassle than it's worth (in terms of both time spent creating the reward and the negative reactions from those wo can't get it). As of now, they're pretty much guessing based on the reactions of vocal people on either side of the issue, and have no idea what the silent majority actually wants. Not sure where you'd host such a poll though. It's already been pointed out that most FL players probably don't read the forums, but maybe putting a link directly on the FL site would work. Or they could have an urchin stop by in-game and question our characters directly, like they used to do for feedback on exceptional stories.
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Swinging Dove Posts: 24 1/23/2017	After reading the thoughts of others, I do agree that some sort of small little pet like the Parabolan Panther could be a nice reward. One that only backers can get, but others can enjoy as well, as with the kitten-giving. But yeah, that's as far as I'd go, as this is a Sunless Skies kickstarter, after all. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Ron%20Morrison Just who is Ronald? Accepting all invitations and the like. Do come and get acquainted!
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Saklad Posts: 528 1/24/2017	The tier with all the exclusive content has two copies of the game, so I’m probably going to get that and split the cost with a friend. I look forward to it. -- Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Estelle Knoht Posts: 1751 1/24/2017	Hannah Flynn wrote: Significant (but not final) update to rewards today, gang! The Diabolical Pack probably should have 2 Scouts and 1 Rabbits, considering that the previous tower also have 2 Scouts. Or is it the another way round? Just one Scout for The Archivist? -- Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady. I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Sandi Gummy Posts: 75 1/20/2017	tbh I don't care either way, just wanna to see skies come true xDD Special gifts are good, no special gifts are still good xD! -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Julia~Jokes Hello all I am new xD You can play chess or do things with me ^^
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Kukapetal Posts: 1449 1/21/2017	I don't think they'd do it out of malice or anything like that, but IIRC the Master's Secret is a reward for a cosplay challenge. It isn't a stretch to think a goofy, just-for-fun challenge might yield an equally goofy, just-for-fun reward. That said, none of this is worth getting my panties in a twist over, so I'll do my best to bow out of this now and leave it to the people who matter.
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Hannah Flynn Administrator Posts: 491 1/18/2017	Robin Alexander wrote: Edit: Hope stuff that relies on social media, but rewards with things like Masters secrets, will be available to everyone . . . seems a bit mean to lock people out of FL lore, especially if it's not money dependent. edited by Robin Alexander on 1/18/2017 Thanks for the feedback! Everything in social rewards would be released to all players. Is there anything specifically in the copy which makes you think otherwise, or is it just not stated precisely enough? -- Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Reshemin Posts: 226 1/19/2017	Chiming in with the people missing a London-related backer bonus here; Companions or maybe Ships are an obvious choice but no doubt you could be creative. Also, this seems like the place to ask: any plans to enable backing from within FL with fate, like it was back with Sunless Sea? If I remember the numbers correctly that was only a small minority back then but if it's not too much of a hassle to set up...
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phryne Posts: 1349 1/18/2017	Personally, I'm not sure what would be the benefits of having two copies of the same game. Can someone elaborate? -- Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Wintermute101 Posts: 23 2/8/2017	So, i do understand that there will be no paypal pledge possibility (which is very sad, i think you would have get many backers through that), but will there be a possibility after the Campaign is done, that we can buy the T-Shirt merchandise? Perhaps if you go for Early Access make it possible to get a T-Shirt too? Its really really sad that i want to back you but can't because i have no Credit Card and missing out on Stuff (Ingame but also sometimes Collectors stuff) is even worse. I hope you could give at least a possibilty for the paypal-people to get some of the stuff from the Campaign. Thanks, and keep up the good work. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Wintermute101
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Mordaine Barimen Posts: 670 2/16/2017	Teaspoon wrote: Is it PC only? "Explore a universe steeped in celestial horror and ravaged by Victorian ambition in this literary RPG for PC, Mac and Linux." -- I'm sorry, but due to policy clarifications, I will no longer be giving detailed mechanics advice on the forums. If you still need help, try the IRC channel.
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Vortigaunt Posts: 51 1/31/2017	After the Kickstarter is formally started, we should make a thread, under the Sunless Skies section, to share out Master costumes in order to meet the social media goal. I don't exactly have 11 cloaks or 11 friends, so we ought to share our photos on the thread and edit them together to get the 7 pictures of 11 Masters. I have costume pieces of Wines, Pages, and Veils lined up for this weekend. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vortigaunt
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Vortigaunt Posts: 51 2/1/2017	I think that they would. The Kickstarter says you can collaborate via digital means, but digital group entries must fit into one photograph, probably like a collage, and individuals can only take part in one submission. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vortigaunt
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Mordaine Barimen Posts: 670 2/1/2017	RIP devilbunny. -- I'm sorry, but due to policy clarifications, I will no longer be giving detailed mechanics advice on the forums. If you still need help, try the IRC channel.
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Wintermute101 Posts: 23 2/1/2017	Hi! Any chance that, as soon as you achieved the 100000£ Kickstarter goal, you make paypal backing possible. I really would like to back Sunless Skies (and don't miss out on content again like with Sunless sea which i bought as it was released, because i missed your kickstarter, shame on me i know ^^, bought Zubmariner the day it came out too) but do not own a Credit Card so everytime there is a Kickstarter (or FIG) Campaign which i'm interested in i need to wait and hope that they will make it possible to back them via paypal. Hope it is possible for you. Keep up the good work, really really loved Sunless Sea and Zubmariner. Thanks -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Wintermute101
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