Zephyrmoth
Posts: 22
5/19/2016
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I mean, I get that there's the canal and junk, which means there's an influx of salinity for most of the time. But, other than weathering the rock of the Neath, where is the brine coming from (besides the Salt Lions, which I assume are rock salt)? There's no real outflow point for water (that I know of), and unless I'm mistaken the water cycle doesn't exist in the Neath (which is another can of worms entirely), so there's no real reason for dissolved minerals to flow from the land to the zee. I get I'm probably entirely wrong or ignorant about all of this and "don't take it so seriously," but it's going to bother me until I find an answer for it or just get told to ignore it.
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In search of the Marvellous and "kicks" as the kids call them
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John Moose
Posts: 276
5/21/2016
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phryne wrote:
John Moose wrote:
We might or might not ever get info on the "what do zailors drink during voyages" business.
Mushroom wine? A lot?
Plot twist: The Unterzee is barely bigger than what can be seen from London and utterly boring and mundane, and every zee-voyage is a bunch of zailors spending a week or two on the boat going around in circles, drinking the mushroom wine stores. By the time they return they're telling stories of living mountains and islands of talking household objects.
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John Moose
Posts: 276
5/19/2016
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I think some water should be constantly escaping the Neath's ecosystem, at least from the hole above Aestival, so some should be entering it as well. Little streams trickling down through cracks in the ceiling/walls sounds like it could both keep the water level more or less constant and be capable of bringing salt into the Unterzee.
On the other hand, I can't find mention of water running out anywhere - a particular tale in Sunless Sea of supplies running out mentions hunger but nothing of thirst, and mentions the usage of a pot. It kind of seems that water is never a problem, and there's no mention of systems to extract water from the nigh-omnipresent fog, so maybe the Unterzee is indeed drinkable? Calling it a sea/zee might have nothing to do with salinity and just be the kneejerk reaction of anyone seeing a body of water that massive.
Now I'm imagining pedantics from the university going around correcting zailors by saying "ACTUALLY, it should be the Unterlake" and getting pushed in the river.
edited by John Moose on 5/19/2016
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
5/19/2016
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Well, there is a god called Salt...
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Excessive Corpse & Tender to Irreal Ravens
Lover of Flawed Souls
And with especial pride, Worst Screwup of the Decade!
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John Moose
Posts: 276
5/21/2016
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To add a little "word of god" to the discussion: a snippet explaining the location of the Bazaar says that "The Bazaar is located at the heart of Fallen London, in the Neath, a cavern of impossible size, by the Unterzee, a tremendous saltwater lake." I'd say it seems at least the intent of the developers that the Unterzee is indeed salty. We might or might not ever get info on the "what do zailors drink during voyages" business.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
5/19/2016
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If water comes down through the ground above, mightn't it pick up all sorts of interesting minerals? Not to mention whatever might be coming up from below. Honestly, I think the salt content's the least of your worries if you're thinking about ingesting any.
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Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
5/19/2016
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Zephyrmoth wrote:
But that would imply there's at least false rain that's not glim raining from the Ceiling, which I can't remember being mentioned, though it may just be assumed.
We get a few confirmations of Neathy rain. Light rain is just condensation; heavy rain is assumed to be flow from above.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Kittenpox
Posts: 869
5/19/2016
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IgnatuStone wrote:
I think Lacre is ammonia based. Also there's not nearly enough to salt the Unterzee.
Thankfully.
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Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
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Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
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Zephyrmoth
Posts: 22
5/20/2016
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TheThirdPolice wrote:
But has Charlotte considered geothermic um aquaschist chlorate... vents?
Slinks off to consult a dictionary.
Whether or not hydrothermal vents exist is going to be an Zubmariner question, but I'm going to assume "yes" because
A. Hydrothermal vents are one of the cooler underwater things to exist
B. There's a lot of fun stuff you can do with the kind of sea-life (or in this case zee-life) that tends to live around them
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Call on me here
In search of the Marvellous and "kicks" as the kids call them
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Meradine Heidenreich
Posts: 468
5/19/2016
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There is fog. Isn't that on the way to being precipitation, as it were?
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Meradine%20Heidenreich
The Starveling kit
Gobbled up the bit
of cheese on my tray ..
"O Weh!"
No plant battles, please.
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phryne
Posts: 1351
5/21/2016
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John Moose wrote:
We might or might not ever get info on the "what do zailors drink during voyages" business.
Mushroom wine? A lot?
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Zephyrmoth
Posts: 22
5/20/2016
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TheThirdPolice wrote:
I was just pretending to know cool physiography words too, but thanks for the vent speculation. =)
To be perfectly honest I'm not a particularly notable thinker in hydrology/geology/oceanography, but I felt the need to speculate anyways. We're all friends here.
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Call on me here
In search of the Marvellous and "kicks" as the kids call them
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Gonen
Posts: 817
5/20/2016
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Interesting discussion. Always nice to re-discover the quality of the people participating in this forum.
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 The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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PJ
Posts: 210
5/20/2016
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The one thing I remember about hydrothermal vents from high school biology is that they support a small ecosystem that doesn't require energy from the sun to sustain life. That seems on-theme.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Peter%20James
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Zephyrmoth
Posts: 22
5/19/2016
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
If water comes down through the ground above, mightn't it pick up all sorts of interesting minerals? Not to mention whatever might be coming up from below. Honestly, I think the salt content's the least of your worries if you're thinking about ingesting any.
I mean, I suppose that's true. And I guess there is an outflow to Hell, though I'm not clear on whether that's at a lower Unterzee level or if it's a level canal... But that would imply there's at least false rain that's not glim raining from the Ceiling, which I can't remember being mentioned, though it may just be assumed.
That's another question: is the Unterzee potable (not wise to drink)? You never buy freshwater in Sunless Sea, which, while under supplies, seems like it would be mentioned beyond feeding your officers. It's always starvation being the problem, when dehydration is far worse. I guess there are wells so ground water is a thing, but is that just a matter of convenience? Nothing good seems to come of them as I understand it.
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Call on me here
In search of the Marvellous and "kicks" as the kids call them
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Gilphon
Posts: 93
5/19/2016
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There's also Lacre. That's somewhat salty, isn't it?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Gilphon
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IgnatuStone
Posts: 208
5/19/2016
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I think Lacre is ammonia based. Also there's not nearly enough to salt the Unterzee.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Ignatus~Stone
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Erika
Posts: 528
5/19/2016
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In the Last Dog Society, there's an item named 'Briny Insights', and it pertains to learning about the Last Dog Society (and by extension, zailor practices).
As it's the item name, I feel like it's not just flavour text and the unterzee might really be briny.
--
 Where the sun is hot, the moon is beautiful, and mysterious lights pass overhead while we all pretend to sleep.
Going on a fate expedition? I'm collecting data! Help me?
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Charlotte_de_Witte
Posts: 360
5/19/2016
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It could be both? Especially given its size.
It might follow a gradient? Or have Haloclines? With some areas of fresh water suspended above the salt water below? (Or vice versa.) That would allow for the Sea of Lilies maybe? And for finding potable water on long voyages?
Some water must come from above to form speleothems like New Newgate and the Dripstone-Snared Temple.
I think to have the room to account for everything, the Zee would need to have variable conditions in different places.
edited by Charlotte_de_Witte on 5/19/2016
--
"Do one thing for me, Sredni Vashtar."
Social actions welcome. Only, send me dupes if you need help with the Affluent Photographer please, I like the bats! [And boxed kitties, and extreme gardening]- Thank-you!
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Charlotte%20de%20Witte
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absimiliard
Posts: 759
5/19/2016
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I think Charlotte has it. It has to vary.
Since it's big enough that time and space themselves get more than a bit bent up far out . . . I have no problem believing in localized conditions.
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"Because, Parabola!" -- the Curious Captain
Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
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Zephyrmoth
Posts: 22
5/19/2016
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Charlotte_de_Witte wrote:
It could be both? Especially given its size.
It might follow a gradient? Or have Haloclines? With some areas of fresh water suspended above the salt water below? (Or vice versa.) That would allow for the Sea of Lilies maybe? And for finding potable water on long voyages?
Some water must come from above to form speleothems like New Newgate and the Dripstone-Snared Temple.
I think to have the room to account for everything, the Zee would need to have variable conditions in different places.
edited by Charlotte_de_Witte on 5/19/2016
I believe that's the end of the thread. Other than questions of outflow, but there are likely answers to that.
edited by Zephyrmoth on 5/19/2016
--
Call on me here
In search of the Marvellous and "kicks" as the kids call them
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
5/20/2016
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I was just pretending to know cool physiography words too, but thanks for the vent speculation. =)
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Excessive Corpse & Tender to Irreal Ravens
Lover of Flawed Souls
And with especial pride, Worst Screwup of the Decade!
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PJ
Posts: 210
5/19/2016
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When I first played Sunless Sea, I wondered why it would be so much colder in the north when we're this deep underground. Thinking about it now, I remembered that there's supposed to be something in the North. I don't know what it is, but it must be unbelievably cold.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Peter%20James
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dov
Posts: 2580
5/19/2016
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Thanks to this thread, I now have this stuck in my head on repeat all day:
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
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Kittenpox
Posts: 869
5/21/2016
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from 'The Mind of a Long-Dead God'... (spoiler)
[spoiler]"Rain"
Rain is both the tears and the blood of the sky god.
[It is better to fail at these challenges.]
Success = "Cleansing water"
It cascades from my eyes. It falls onto the streets. People run for shelter!
Failure = "Cleansing water?"
The water that falls from my eyes is briny. This should not be so. This is not pure rain.
So take that with a pinch of salt (no pun intended) but it seems the zee is *definitely* briny, but this may also be from the rain rather than just the zee itself.[/spoiler]
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Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
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Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
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Zephyrmoth
Posts: 22
5/22/2016
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Kittenpox wrote:
from 'The Mind of a Long-Dead God'... (spoiler)
[spoiler]"Rain"
Rain is both the tears and the blood of the sky god.
[It is better to fail at these challenges.]
Success = "Cleansing water"
It cascades from my eyes. It falls onto the streets. People run for shelter!
Failure = "Cleansing water?"
The water that falls from my eyes is briny. This should not be so. This is not pure rain.
So take that with a pinch of salt (no pun intended) but it seems the zee is *definitely* briny, but this may also be from the rain rather than just the zee itself.[/spoiler]
I mean, the implication of salt is heavy, but tears are salty. Also I lack context for who this is referring to. Is that major spoilers to find out or...?
John Moose wrote:
Going back to the brine discussion as a side note there are some rivers on the coast of the zea, if you ever need some fragments, that also probably brings in minerals for brine
That is true, but most of those rivers seems to be outflow and lead to "places which are more metaphysical than mineral" as I recall from Sunless Sea.
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Call on me here
In search of the Marvellous and "kicks" as the kids call them
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Kittenpox
Posts: 869
5/22/2016
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Zephyrmoth wrote:
I mean, the implication of salt is heavy, but tears are salty. Also I lack context for who this is referring to. Is that major spoilers to find out or...?
Clearly I'm not quite thinking straight IRL either - but for some reason I genuinely hadn't considered that!
My apologies. Turns out I wasn't anywhere near as profound as I thought I was. :3
As for 'The Mind of a Long-Dead God', it's a place in the game you can reach when you have [spoiler]'Stormy-Eyed' at 19 and 'Having Recurring Dreams: What the Thunder Said' 15.[/spoiler]
I just wanted to give people a chance to experience that stuff for themselves, is all. :-)
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Kittenpox
Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
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Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
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fortluna
Posts: 306
5/22/2016
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Zephyrmoth wrote:
fortluna wrote:
There were vents in one of the preview videos especially around Mt Palmerston, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzYcxT1WVmM
I mean, there were those oases I think they mentioned for restoring air (which more suggests underground air pockets), but all I saw in that video was heated rock from the volcanic activity on Mt. Palmerston.
I kinda assumed volcanic activity = heated water/dissolved minerals, but there's this too: http://www.failbettergames.com/a-first-look-at-zubmariner
As for stormy eyed, this means that rain is still freshwater, right? But I guess there's no way for zailors to set up distillers on board without, say, an embodiment of law and power...[ACCEPT THE DAWN MACHINE]
edited by fortluna on 5/22/2016
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Cordelia Blackburne
Posts: 36
5/24/2016
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Regarding the in-game treatment of the salinity of the zee, the Paranomastic Newshound does mention that he and his fellow lost zee-voyagers were "fierce with thirst" and had to bargain for water. I always considered that a fairly definitive answer to the question.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Cordelia~Blackburne
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
5/24/2016
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Yeah I think it's definitely an acceptable case of Story and Gameplay Segregation. Managing fuel and supplies is hard enough as is.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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