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Chris Gardiner
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 517

11/8/2014
Dragon Age: The Last Court, our collaboration with Bioware, is now live and available to play on the Dragon Age Keep! Sign in here, and you'll find it under the menu at the top left.


Enjoy!
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Owen Wulf
Owen Wulf
Posts: 715

11/9/2014
I have enjoyed my time toying around with the intrigue and inherent dangers of ruling the province of Serault. It is a far cleaner and more rapt experience than the Silver Tree and I must commend the team for such an excellent piece of work.

However, it seems that an unusually large contingent of Dragon Age players cannot wrap their heads around The Last Court and are already decrying it. The response from some has been so vocal that I wondered if the same game was being discussed. No doubt the workings of a Failbetter game will come as alien to those used to immediate satisfaction, and things will likely be smoothed over as time goes on. Like as not, the Dragon Age Wiki will be updated to include a guide for this game that can be referenced later. Were it not for my tight schedule I might be tempted to contribute to the effort myself.

That aside, a job well done.

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edited by Owen Wulf on 11/9/2014

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friendshipranger
friendshipranger
Posts: 274

11/9/2014
To Owen's point, it is intensely Failbettery. Many people don't like the time-constrained text adventure format. I can understand- if you don't reading a chapter of a book per hour, I could understand why interactive fiction that doesn't allow you to binge at your own pace could be infuriating.

I like it. I started last night around this hour; still waiting for Market Day. Maybe it's a less stringent system than Time, the Healer.

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Blork
Blork
Posts: 5

11/9/2014
Owen Wulf wrote:
I have enjoyed my time toying around with the intrigue and inherent dangers of ruling the province of Serault. It is a far cleaner and more rapt experience than the Silver Tree and I must commend the team for such an excellent piece of work.

However, it seems that an unusually large contingent of Dragon Age players cannot wrap their heads around The Last Court and are already decrying it. The response from some has been so vocal that I wondered if the same game was being discussed. No doubt the workings of a Failbetter game will come as alien to those used to immediate satisfaction, and things will likely be smoothed over as time goes on. Like as not, the Dragon Age Wiki will be updated to include a guide for this game that can be referenced later. Were it not for my tight schedule I might be tempted to contribute to the effort myself.

That aside, a job well done.

----
edited by Owen Wulf on 11/9/2014


Which is most likely;
Gamers with decades of experience "cannot wrap their heads around The Last Court"?
Or..
The Last Court isn't any good and you're blindly defending Failbetter?


Your thinly veiled attempts of insulting gamers that don't immediately embrace what you perceive to be good not withstanding, every site talking about this game has the same comments and few are flattering.


It's a bad game, Wolf. Only your conceit demands otherwise.


edited by Blork on 11/9/2014

  • edited by Blork on 11/9/2014
  • -16 link
    Owen Wulf
    Owen Wulf
    Posts: 715

    11/9/2014
    Blork wrote:


    Which is most likely;
    Gamers with decades of experience "cannot wrap their heads around The Last Court"?
    Or..
    The Last Court isn't any good and you're blindly defending Failbetter?


    Your thinly veiled attempts of insulting gamers that don't immediately embrace what you perceive to be good not withstanding, every site talking about this game has the same comments. It's a tedious grind with next to no story, content, or point.


    How flattering you would use your first post to argue against my opinion. I have spent years playing Fallen London and so I was able to adapt quickly to the needs of The Last Court, which require a degree of patience if you are not of a mind to spend money on Dawn points.

    As for your insinuation that I am blindly defending Failbetter, I have to assume that you missed my early comparison to the Silver Tree. I helped back that project during its Kickstarter and let me just say that you have not encountered a true tedious grind until you have played that mess of a browser game. Failbetter can stand on its own with or without my adoration, but what irks me is the incessant barrage of whining from players who have not spent more than a day playing the Last Court.

    The Last Court is good, certainly by my expectations. I enjoy coming home from a hard day of work and plugging away with the points that have been accumulating, and doing so again in the morning over a cup of coffee. The story, as much as I have encountered, is intriguing to me since I am quite versed in Dragon Age lore (despite abstaining from reading any of the books).

    And if, good sir, you believe that this game has no point then your perceived notion of "fun" is certainly different from my own.


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    edited by Owen Wulf on 11/9/2014

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    Edison Wake
    Edison Wake
    Posts: 10

    11/9/2014
    As a huge fan of both Dragon Age and Echo Bazaar, I'm not blown away. The Last Court pretty good, and I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with the execution. But as much as I love the idea of a Bioware/Failbetter collab, I don't think this game is any better than Fallen London. In terms of sheer creativity, the world of Fallen London is a thousand times more interesting than Thedas. This makes it more suited to the format of a time-constrained text-based RPG, which places much more emphasis on the story than the gaming element. In this format, the better the writing, the better the playing experience. The writing of Dragon Age, while outstanding for a popular video game, can't compare to that of Fallen London. As for The Last Court, I'll play it, but I doubt I'll get invested.
    +4 link

    "Many" Chin
    Posts: 383

    11/9/2014
    call me a bigot who mocks barbarians and foreigners, but i wouldn't be ashamed to insult the likes of them who hate text-based adventures and such.

    looks like it's more popular than i thought it would be. i can't even log in on firefox, and it doesn't work with opera presto.

    EDIT nevermind. it's working now.
    edited by rebelanarch-82 on 11/9/2014

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    Blork
    Blork
    Posts: 5

    11/9/2014
    Owen Wulf wrote:
    Blork wrote:


    Which is most likely;
    Gamers with decades of experience "cannot wrap their heads around The Last Court"?
    Or..
    The Last Court isn't any good and you're blindly defending Failbetter?


    Your thinly veiled attempts of insulting gamers that don't immediately embrace what you perceive to be good not withstanding, every site talking about this game has the same comments. It's a tedious grind with next to no story, content, or point.


    How flattering you would use your first post to argue against my opinion. I have spent years playing Fallen London and so I was able to adapt quickly to the needs of The Last Court, which require a degree of patience if you are not of a mind to spend money on Dawn points.

    As for your insinuation that I am blindly defending Failbetter, I have to assume that you missed my early comparison to the Silver Tree. I helped back that project during its Kickstarter and let me just say that you have not encountered a true tedious grind until you have played that mess of a browser game. Failbetter can stand on its own with or without my adoration, but what irks me is the incessant barrage of whining from players who have not spent more than a day playing the Last Court.

    The Last Court is good, certainly by my expectations. I enjoy coming home from a hard day of work and plugging away with the points that have been accumulating, and doing so again in the morning over a cup of coffee. The story, as much as I have encountered, is intriguing to me since I am quite versed in Dragon Age lore (despite abstaining from reading any of the books).

    And if, good sir, you believe that this game has no point then your perceived notion of "fun" is certainly different from my own.


    ---
    edited by Owen Wulf on 11/9/2014




    And now along with gamers not being able to wrap their head around a painfully simplistic game.....they need patience as well. I'm flattered you can even be bothered replying in between polishing your ivory tower.

    No, nobody should spend real world money on a game like The Last Court. The only people that would are the ones who find chartered accountancy exciting.

    Not at all. It stands to reason that if you like one bad game enough to blindly throw money at it, you'll like another bad game to shower it with underserved praise while accusing other gamers of not getting it. I already assumed that was your modus operandi, thank you for the clarification.
    "incessant barrage of whining" Again showing that if gamers don't agree with you....then they're just wrong. Way to lump up all the detractors into a easily dismissed group, nice to see you're ready to be objective with criticism.

    Then you've set the bar so low, it's frankly ridiculous that you have the audacity to ridicule other gamers. Dragon Age lore has nothing nor gains nothing from The Last Court. It's a card game that isn't a card game, a RPG that isn't a RPG, an adventure game without the adventure.

    Why do we get the same cards over and over? Each having the same *cough* quests? Why does it take two points to draw cards when one point does the exact same thing? Why does it say a skill is increasing when it isn't? Why do we have characters from DA and DA2 pop in and never see them again?


    Because it's a bad game, that's why.



  • edited by Blork on 11/9/2014
  • -7 link
    Blork
    Blork
    Posts: 5

    11/9/2014
    "Many" Chin wrote:
    call me a bigot who mocks barbarians and foreigners, but i wouldn't be ashamed to insult the likes of them who hate text-based adventures and such.

    looks like it's more popular than i thought it would be. i can't even log in on firefox, and it doesn't work with opera presto.


    Well, as long as you're being open and mature about it.
    For the record, I love "text-based adventures and such". I grew up on Infocom, Sierra and Lucasarts back when they were Lucasfilm. That doesn't mean that we have to embrace every text based game out there.
    In comparison to the worst games the three companies I listed released, The Last Court falls way below.

  • -7 link
    Owen Wulf
    Owen Wulf
    Posts: 715

    11/9/2014
    Blork wrote:

    And now along with gamers not being able to wrap their head around a painfully simplistic game.....they need patience as well. I'm flattered you can even be bothered replying in between polishing your ivory tower.

    ---snip

    Because it's a bad game, that's why.


    I did not lump all of the game's detractors into some target for ridicule, that is simply your imagination. You may maintain pretenses all you wish but you have not been in the slightest bit constructive in the discussion, started by yourself, as to whether this game has merits.

    I have argued that, flaws aside, it is a product worthy of one's time if you are so inclined. All you have to offer is yet another unrelenting wave of misdirected anger and spiteful rhetoric.

    If all you want to do is pick a fight then you are not worth my time. If, however, you wish to indulge in discussing the game's various mechanics and virtues, even its lesser traits, then that is commendable.

    Do remember, however, to maintain proper forum decorum as, unlike in the Bioware Forums, the moderators here are quite willing to take action when needed.

    ---
    edited by Owen Wulf on 11/9/2014

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    Blork
    Blork
    Posts: 5

    11/9/2014
    Owen Wulf wrote:
    Blork wrote:

    And now along with gamers not being able to wrap their head around a painfully simplistic game.....they need patience as well. I'm flattered you can even be bothered replying in between polishing your ivory tower.

    ---snip

    Because it's a bad game, that's why.


    I did not lump all of the game's detractors into some target for ridicule, that is simply your imagination. You may maintain pretenses all you wish but you have not been in the slightest bit constructive as to the the discussion, started by yourself, as to whether this game has merits.

    I have argued that, flaws aside, it is a product worthy of one's time if you are so inclined. All you have to offer is yet another unrelenting wave of misdirected anger and spiteful rhetoric.

    If all you want to do is pick a fight then you are not worth my time. If, however, you wish to indulge in discussing the game's various mechanics and virtues, even its lesser traits, then that is commendable.

    Do remember, however, to maintain proper forum decorum as, unlike in the Bioware Forums, the moderators here are quite willing to take action when needed.

    ---
    edited by Owen Wulf on 11/9/2014




    You flippantly accused gamers of neither having the intellect nor the patience to enjoy The Last Court. You slammed the "incessant barrage of whining" when, on sites like PC Gamer, have went into great detail about the severe flaws this game has. So, yes... you are indeed lumping them into one category.

    There is no misplaced anything, but I'll give you credit for failing to turn it on me as some sort of anger issue. This is what you have said. You need to twist it around in a vain attempt to pretend otherwise, that's on you..not me.

    As for the discussion? I asked at least three questions that you (unsurprisingly) didn't answer.

    The moderators of this site traffic off topic and insulting commentary. Of which I am guilty of neither... or rather... as guilty of it as you are. If you wish you play moderator, I'm certain they will take in someone who will wax poetic about everything and anything FailBetter does.

    Beyond throwing praise at The Last Court, where exactly is your points that this game is worthy of not only Dragon Age, but Failbetter? All I see is you talking about how YOU like it... not that's it's actually good or why others might like it.


    I like Down The World: Mervil's Ambition, but I'm not arrogant enough to say that if others don't like it, they don't get it. I like a bad game and I can admit to it.... some of us can't. Shame really.



  • edited by Blork on 11/9/2014

  • edited by Blork on 11/9/2014
  • -6 link

    "Many" Chin
    Posts: 383

    11/9/2014
    so far i found the game too luck-based and dependent on the cards. also there's no warning that says you need a minimum of so-and-so resources before you can make good use of an option that cost some other resource. e.g., spend an authority point to summon a merchant, just to find out you don't have enough coins/royals to buy anything, thus wasting your authority.

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    Chris Gardiner
    Chris Gardiner
    Administrator
    Posts: 517

    11/9/2014
    Everyone: please moderate your tones when addressing each other.


    Some people won't like The Last Court. That is fine.


    Some people won't like Fallen London. That is fine.


    Some people will love them. That is also fine.


    People's preferences in video games are not a reason to insult them, whether it's for attention span, snobbishness, or anything else. The internet has enough of that, and this forum will not become another locus for it.


    Please take a moment before you type responses to one another and speak politely. Assume intelligence on behalf of your fellow posters. Communicate with respect.


    Thanks!
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    babelfishwars
    babelfishwars
    Administrator
    Posts: 1070

    11/9/2014
    Sorry, should have popped in earlier.

    Hi guys,
    Welcome to new members.

    What Chris said.

    A point for you all: if you're just making a post to tell someone else why their opinion is wrong, think twice. If someone doesn't enjoy something, it's bad for them. If someone does, it's good for them. Whatever. While you keep things polite I'm not going to get moderatory, but if you are just doing more advanced forms of 'you're wrong', it'll leave a sour taste, and eventually someone from the mod team will get involved.

    For new members: we take pride in the forum - just avoiding swearing etc isn't enough to not have moderatorial words murmured in your direction. Please keep it friendly, and please be constructive.
    The rest of you - if you find yourself in a 'you're wrong' debate, it's OK to shurrup and not stir things.

    Some people don't like cheese. They are, most definitely, wrong. But there's no point explaining why.

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    +7 link
    Blork
    Blork
    Posts: 5

    11/9/2014
    Very well, let's try this again without resorting to bickering. ****SPOILERS POSSIBLE****
    First, the bread and butter; The story. A good adventure, RPG, and/or hybrid should have a story to captivate the player along with interesting characters. Case in point, Planetfall. Mention that game anywhere and someone will respond with the death of Floyd or the deep meaningful story. And Planetfall is over 20 years old.

    The story in The Last Court is.... somewhere? I'm a ruler trying to get Serault in shape for the Divine to visit. Small story about broken keep windows. Hardly compelling.

    The tutorial: Doesn't explain much. You lose Dignity if you decide to skip it. It really doesn't provide any more to the game than simple, detailed instructions.

    The characters: Well, I see the bard every time I draw and he has the same mundane quests. Then again, they all have the same mundane quests. They have no life to them at all.

    I did see Morrigan within the first 10 minutes and haven't spoken to her since. Despite her not only living in Serault, but living in my keep. Carver showed up, who I called out as an imposter... that's it.

    Gameplay: Draw cards, hope the percentages work in your favor, draw more cards. Wash, rinse, repeat. OK, fair enough, but this is not by any means an exciting nor gripping form of gameplay...especially when it's the same cards over and over.

    There is a plague where homes are marked with a yellow circle. I can't interact with anything and just lose Prosperity because of... reasons? It's not explained.
    Some missions explain what you will gain/lose while others keep you in the dark. Again for reasons unexplained.

    The point system: Well, you lose points just looking out your keep windows and get nothing for it but an extremely brief explanation as to what you're looking at. It cost two points to draw cards, but if you only have one point? You can still draw cards.

    So the player is needlessly losing a point. Why? Because to get more sooner, you have to play real money. When a player has to avoid interaction to keep points on something extremely minor as looking out a window, it's an extremely greedy and poor tactic, FailBetter.

    Achievements: When you complete a quest, win or lose, you gain experience in a particular skill. Except I don't actually see that experience unless the mission specifically says so. When you get the message "Rulership is increasing....." exactly when is this happening? Because it hasn't moved an inch since I've been playing.

    Basic issues: 20 minutes per point? Really? Even the most greedy of Gameloft games requires maybe 30 minutes for a full recharge.

    The most infuriating however is getting timed out even though I've been playing with no pause in game. No, it's not my provider. Of course, I lose the point and whatever I was about ready to accomplish.

    Well, I was asked to explain myself and here you go. This is not only a poor DA tie-in game, it's a poor FailBetter game.

  • edited by Blork on 11/9/2014

  • edited by Blork on 11/9/2014
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    babelfishwars
    babelfishwars
    Administrator
    Posts: 1070

    11/9/2014
    Definitely sounds like you don't like the game. You don't appear to be lost or need help, or indeed to have met a bug. I'm sorry it's not for you. It is indeed a bad game for you. Hope you enjoy Dragon Age: Inquisition more. :-)
    edited by babelfishwars on 11/9/2014

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    NiteBrite
    NiteBrite
    Posts: 1008

    11/9/2014
    Last Court – First Impressions

    [spoiler]“This is unwise and will have lasting consequence”

    Early in the game you are offered the a choice, dare you unseal the forbidden chateau and seek a heretical truth? A great sin of the past lies buried in deep and the dark. Brave souls unafraid of what is most certainly a terrible end should gather as many candles as they can fit into their leather pouch and plunge headfirst into madness. Of course, every step of the way you are offered the chance to turn back and leave this quest of self-destruction behind. The fearful and the wise who prefer the bliss and prosperity of ignorance can abandon their quest and become Free of the Robes. Seekers of ruinous madness have an advantage in finding favor with the divine oddly enough. Grind your menace to the maximum straining your kingdom to the breaking point to gain rewards unparalleled and unique.

    Dare you zail the apple wood’s river and brave the eldridtch terrors contained within? Do you trust the Masterful Nobles or will you succumb to their machinations? And what will you do to ease (or increase) the plight of your delicious citizens? The Revolutionaries are waiting, biding their time. If you aren’t careful their Liberation will be upon you.[/spoiler]

    ---

    To put it bluntly, I have only been playing for a day and a half and already I love it to pieces. I’ve never played a Dragon Age game before, but Last Court has grabbed my attention and my interest and it just won’t let go haha. This game is so Failbetter it hurts (in a good way). Mad props to you guys. I am looking forward to seeing how the reign of NiteBrite the Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know will end haha.

    Edit: I've been reading up on the commentary outside of these forums and the most common element in the negative reviews are a perception that this game -must- be completed in seven days or else you will miss out on the start of DA:I. This just isn't true and it makes people frustrated with the action timer thinking it is holding their wallets hostage against a hard deadline. Of course I can see how that would cause a bit of panic, but it just isn't true. The Last Court FAQ very clearly states that this game has no impact on DA:I whatsoever. So don't sweat it. The timer means you no harm and it works well as a pacing mechanism to ease the experience of necessary repetition and learning from experience gained over time. I know if I just rushed this stuff lots of fluff and deatils would get glossed over and lost. It wouldn't have the same feel or lasting power.

    It looks sort of like culture shock. New players aren't used to these sorts of mechanics and three is a palpable tension between reality and expectation. As someone who is fully aware of the free to play model and the workings of the storynexus engine, I appreciate the timer and what it does to enhance my enjoyment of the content. Last Court feels like a well written story. I enjoy the content and what its about. And I think, it is a good game. Not everyone enjoys the free to play model, but for solo story driven worlds it works pretty well.
    edited by NiteBrite on 11/9/2014

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    Playersideblog
    Playersideblog
    Posts: 397

    11/9/2014
    Mm. It's a nice diversion for a Failbetter game, and I like it as such. Certainly, the lore and characters are nowhere near the scope of Fallen London, but it's a pretty good light StoryNexus-style game. Curious to see if things go deeper.

    And yes, I fully intend to take the Seeking-esque option. :-D

    Blork: Some of that definitely does come with the territory of Failbetter's style of games. Think of it more as a way to slowly unravel narrative, for instance, because it'll definitely never be anything remotely resembling a Bioware RPG. Ultimately, it's a coffee-break game that you can jump into once per day for ten minutes or so, then go off and do other things with your time. It's ultimately pretty lightweight.

    I also definitely wish that they would show your progress towards advancing stats. They do this in Fallen London, but it seems that they either chose to remove it or had technical issues with including it in their narrative engine.

    The timeout bug sounds exceedingly bothersome.

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    yetanotherone
    yetanotherone
    Posts: 103

    11/9/2014
    Playersideblog wrote:
    Mm. It's a nice diversion for a Failbetter game, and I like it as such. Certainly, the lore and characters are nowhere near the scope of Fallen London, but it's a pretty good light StoryNexus-style game. Curious to see if things go deeper.


    Yeah, that's spot on. You can't really go crazy in the Dragon Age world, but I hope at least it gets dark.

    If "The timeout bug" is what I think it is, then it is indeed bothersome. Not sure why that happens, probably something complicated to do with cookies, but never leave the game open for any length of time with a card active, or you'll lose it.


    I'm mostly liking it though. Starts very simple (probably a result of having played way too much FL), but things seem to open up after the second market day. Juggling the various menaces to my advantage is fun too...I don't know if it was intentional design, but my plan to be a kind and benevolent ruler has fallen by the wayside, and freedom and revolution are now just numbers to be kept in check.

    Now, where do I find me a 'lover' who isn't the bard? I am less concerned with trivial things like gender, or indeed attractiveness - all I need is someone to shack up with who can make me better at hunting and I've got all the stats covered. Because isn't that what love is all about, reallywink
    edited by yetanotherone on 11/9/2014

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    "Many" Chin
    Posts: 383

    11/9/2014
    NiteBrite wrote:
    Last Court – First Impressions

    [spoiler]“This is unwise and will have lasting consequence”

    Early in the game you are offered the a choice, dare you unseal the forbidden chateau and seek a heretical truth? A great sin of the past lies buried in deep and the dark. Brave souls unafraid of what is most certainly a terrible end should gather as many candles as they can fit into their leather pouch and plunge headfirst into madness. Of course, every step of the way you are offered the chance to turn back and leave this quest of self-destruction behind. The fearful and the wise who prefer the bliss and prosperity of ignorance can abandon their quest and become Free of the Robes. Seekers of ruinous madness have an advantage in finding favor with the divine oddly enough. Grind your menace to the maximum straining your kingdom to the breaking point to gain rewards unparalleled and unique.

    Dare you zail the apple wood’s river and brave the eldridtch terrors contained within? Do you trust the Masterful Nobles or will you succumb to their machinations? And what will you do to ease (or increase) the plight of your delicious citizens? The Revolutionaries are waiting, biding their time. If you aren’t careful their Liberation will be upon you.[/spoiler]

    ---



    thanks for the info... i think i'll go seek NOT-mister-eaten's name in last court, since it's a new character and i wouldn't worry much about "nuking" myself
    edited by rebelanarch-82 on 11/11/2014

    --
    "My little China girl/You shouldn't mess with me/I'll ruin everything you are/I'll give you television/I'll give you eyes of blue/I'll give you man who wants to rule the world"
    - The Goblin King.
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