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Mapping Fallen London - Spoilers of a Sort Messages in this topic - RSS

Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
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Posts: 2949

11/3/2013
Between the rearrangement of the Fall, the Masters' prohibition of prelapsarian cartography, the curious limitations of memory, and the occasional impossible geometry, it can be hard to say exactly what is where and where is what in Fallen London. I've begun a project of recording every definite location in the city, and my best guess at what Surface-location - if any - it corresponds to. This originally began as a simple reference to lend colour and texture to my brother's tabletop game, but it got big enough that my wife suggested I should post it here, and see if you lovely forum folk could contribute still further!

I should add that I'm not from the UK, and have never been to London, so my frame of reference is only what knowledge I have previously absorbed and what has been readily accessible through the net. So, I can only apologise for any comical blunders! Also, the precise borders between the districts of London - aside from the river - are not always clear, so locations near the border are subject to some guesswork.

The West End
Ladybones Road. (Marylebone)
Moloch St - home of the Honey-Addled Detective. (Baker Street)
Hood’s Bridge. (Waterloo Bridge)
Varlet's Walk - location of Orchard House, HQ of the Dilmun Club
Jekyll Gardens. (Hyde Park)
Concord Square - police headquarters. (Based on Scotland Yard?)
Hastings Place - embassies, statue of Weeping Harold
Kidderghast Lane
Hangman's Arch. (Marble Arch)
The Brass Embassy.
The Shuttered Palace. (Kensington Palace?)
The University (University of London)
Benthic College (University College)
Summerset College (King's College)
Dropsy Hall - university building
Misery House - university building
Versification House - Home of the Imperial Artist-in-Residence
St Nathanael's Hospital (St Bartholomew's Hospital)
Caligula's Coffee House - upmarket cafe
Dante's Grill - devils’ diner
The New Justice - police pub
Clathermont's Tattoo Parlour

Central London
Veilgarden (Covent Garden)
Elderwick - a church, booksellers, artists' lodgings
Heartscross Hill - location of Heartscross Cemetery (Highgate, and Highgate Cemetery?)
Burly Street - Foreign Office; Captivating Princess’ green-doored honey-den
Hollow Street - elite honey-dens here
Grabskirt Lane (presumably related to Gropecunt Lane and its ilk)
Big King Square - favoured for weasel-fights, has a well
Tyrant's Gardens - favoured for clandestine meetings (perhaps Regent's Park?)
Wilmot’s End - adjoins Tyrant’s Gardens (perhaps Primrose Hill?)
The Labyrinth of Tigers - combined zoo, market and prison (The Zoological Society Gardens, AKA the 'Zoo')
St Aegidius' Church (St Giles-in-the-Fields, AKA the Poets' Church)
Church of St. Vincent of Saragossa (patron saint of vintners, associated with ravens)
The House of Chimes - a club in the River (the tower of Big Ben, sunk under the Thames)
The Parlour of Virtue - the city's major bordello
The Singing Mandrake - bohemian pub

The East End
Spite (Spitalfields)
Blythenhale - toughest cats (maybe Bethnal Green?)
Flowerdene Street - worst rookery in London (Flower and Dean Street - Ripper heartland)
Flowerdene Avenue
The Tenterhooks - dyeing industry (the Tentergrounds)
Smashtile Alley - ceramics industry (perhaps Brick Lane?)
Doubt Street - presses and printers (Fleet Street)
Deviltry Lane
St Fiacre's Cathedral (real saint, but no such cathedral - presumably St Paul's)
All Christs' Church (perhaps All Souls'?)
St Dunstan's Church - spirifer-den (St Dunstan-in-the-West)
Spite Market (Old Spitalfields Market?)
The Bone Bell (perhaps the Bow bells of St Mary-le-Bow, Cheapside?)
The Doubt Street Scullery - rough chop house
Mahogany Hall - largest music hall in London (Wilton's Music Hall)
The Orphanage
Wolfstack Docks (The Isle of Dogs)
The Blind Helmsman - sailor’s pub

South London
The Bazaar
Blackfinger Street - Bookshops, printers, publishers, bookbinders
Southwark Cathedral
The Royal Bethlehem Hotel (Bethlem Royal Hospital, Southwark)
The Horse-Steak Club - elite, expensive club
The Bridge Without - expensive, uncomfortable pub; meeting place of movers and shakers
The Great Downward Engineering Company
The Greyfields Winery

South-East London
Watchmaker's Hill (Greenwich)
Charley Square - centre of revolutionary soapboxing, has a well
The Observatory (Royal Observatory, Greenwich)
The Department of Menace Eradication (probably the Queen's House, Greenwich)
The Gamekeeper's Cottage (Might be the Ranger’s House?)
The Medusa's Head - The Cheery Man's pub - centre of his criminal empire.
Bugsby's Marshes (real marshes, surrounding Greenwich)

Unknown
Hookman House - Main archive of Ministry of Public Decency
The Bishop's Eye - pub
Antimacassar Theatre (I wonder if the antimacassars are delivered on a D'Oyly Carte)
Old Empress Theatre
Imperial Opera House (presumably the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden)
Cavalier House - fashionable salon
Chalkery Road - modestly respectable residences
Wick Street & Hobbe Lane - urchin territory
Alley Alley & Blue Ghost Street - urchin territory
Bad Monkey Row - possibly a delusion
Cake Street
Cubit Square - house of Mr Leadbeater here
Furnace Street - has “mirrored gin-palaces”
Childcake Street - has a well
Tollway Street - has a honey-den
The Museum of Mistakes
The Royal Portrait Gallery
The Square of Lofty Words
St Giles’ Bible College
Parliament House (possibly not Westminster Palace, if Big Ben is in the Thames)

edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 11/8/2013

--
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook, the Libertarian Esotericist. Reginald Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Ms Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
FrillyShirt, featuring Doctor Taupe-Wainscot, the Most Boring Man in Fallen London.
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Flyte
Flyte
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11/3/2013
I can't add much to this, but here's what I have.
  • St Fiacre's Cathedral: London has (and had) only two Anglican cathedrals. Southwark's already accounted for, so I think you're right to say St Paul's.
  • The Shuttered Palace: Buckingham Palace. It's not the only palace in London, but was Victoria's main residence and is in the right place, more or less.
  • St-Giles-in-the-Fields: this is now technically in the Borough of Camden, but that was only created in the mid-twentieth century. It's also not in the part of London people actually call Camden; that's to the north.
  • Wolfstack Docks: these are the old West India Docks which, as you say, were on the Isle of Dogs.

edited by Flyte on 11/3/2013
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
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Posts: 2949

11/3/2013
Thanks! I appreciate the local knowledge!

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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook, the Libertarian Esotericist. Reginald Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Ms Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
FrillyShirt, featuring Doctor Taupe-Wainscot, the Most Boring Man in Fallen London.
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Richard
Richard
Posts: 304

11/3/2013
Aaargh! Must resist, must resist... no, I can't resist. Here we go.
  • Hangman's Arch - unambiguously Marble Arch. That's where hangings used to take place in London (though well before the Victorian age, when the area was known as Tyburn).
  • Moloch Street - even before the Holmes connection emerged, I thought this was Baker Street because of the fact it's close to Marylebone and has an underground station. The station appears to be a terminus in the game, which Baker Street isn't (and never was) - but there's no real-world terminus in the area, and Baker Street is a big enough station that it's within the realm of dramatic licence.
  • Hood's Bridge - is a complete puzzle, given that it seems to be near Moloch Street and therefore nowhere near the Thames. Perhaps it's an ornamental bridge somewhere in Regent's Park, perhaps there's a twist in the fabric of geography or perhaps it's, y'know, a mistake. The poison tipped umbrella (which is said to have been involved in an incident on Hood's Bridge) is a reference to the murder of Georgi Markov on Waterloo Bridge in the 1970's, but I suspect that's just flippant rather than a clue.
  • Do you know, I'd never got the Jekyll & Hyde joke before now?
  • I've no idea where Hastings Place is or what happens there, but the "statue of Weeping Harold" sounds like a reference to the fact that Harold Godwinson, the last Saxon king of England, was shot in the eye with an arrow at the Battle of Hastings. Allegedly. It's a thing which every British school child knows.
  • The Shuttered Palace - well, it's just Buckingham Palace, isn't it? It's in the right place on the map, more or less.
  • The university - I'm open to challenge on this, but I'm 95% sure that it's actually a cipher for Oxford and Cambridge universities, relocated to London and shrunk down a bit. The descriptions of the colleges perfectly match Oxford and Cambridge, and don't match any of the London-based universities I know of (though I don't know all of them). Plus, the way that the two colleges have a complete disdain for each other matches the stereotyped view of Oxford and Cambridge. Summerset is Oxford, Bethnic is Cambridge.
  • St Nathanael's Hospital - I've always thought was Bart's (St Bartholomew's), a very famous hospital. And indeed Wikipedia suggests that at least some people think St Nathanael and St Bartholomew are the same person.
  • Veilgarden - I have to admit has always puzzled me. I too assume Covent Garden - the generally arty tone fits - but I can't see a play-on-words connection like I can for the other names, and it's in completely the wrong place on the map. Maybe Covent Garden was relocated to Camden for reasons known only to the Bazaar.
  • Heartscross Hill - not completely sure, but I think this is Highgate. Highgate Cemetery is probably the most famous in London, and it's on a hill. And when I took a ride at Christmas, we went north through Veilgarden to Heartscross, which (given where Veilgarden is drawn on the map) fits with it being Highgate.
  • Grabskirt Lane - never come across that, but it sounds like Petticoat Lane based just on the name. Alas for that theory, that would mean it ought to be near Spite.
  • The Labyrinth of Tigers - this place is always, always known as London Zoo (not the Zoological Society of London), no matter what maps try to tell you!
  • Doubt Street - is certainly Fleet Street, no question mark required. "Fleet Street" is still a synonym for the press in the UK. The Fallen London version is in the wrong place, but hey.
  • St Fiacre's Cathedral - if it's near Spite then it can only be St Paul's. There's another cathedral at Westminster (a Catholic one), but that's in the wrong place.
  • The Bone Bell - don't think I've ever seen that, but the Bow Bells are famous in folklore for the idea that you are a "true" Cockney (i.e. East End Londoner) if you're born within earshot of them. Does that fit at all?
  • Mahogany Hall - out of all of them, this is the one I most ought to recognise, but I don't. It's been puzzling me for ages and I'll be terribly upset if it turns out it's just made up. My best guess is Wilton's Music Hall, which is the right period and vaguely near to Spite... but why it would be called "Mahogany" I've no idea.
  • Wolfstack Docks - sigh. "Pile of dogs". Alexis, that is utterly terrible.
  • Royal Bethlehem Hotel - yes, it's the Bethlem Royal Hospital, but much better known as Bedlam.
  • The Bazaar - a complete side-track this, but if you don't know London then you won't know how startlingly radical it is for the commercial heart of London to be located south of the river. I choose to believe this is FBG striking a blow for equality, and not, for example, that they happened to have room there on the map.
  • Southwark Cathedral - is a real place, and the Bishop of Southwark is a real person. Which raises the question, why has Southwark, and only Southwark, got to keep its name when everything else has been changed? Never thought to wonder that before.
  • Imperial Opera House - there's a real Royal Opera House, which I think dates back to the relevant period

Ones I think you've missed:
  • Square of Lofty Words - which I've always assumed to be Speakers' Corner near Marble Arch (with the poles being a parody of the stepladders the more self-promoting of the speakers stand on).
  • Winewound Heath - the fact it's to the "south and west" of the city suggests Putney Heath, but I don't see the connection in the name.
  • Mrs Plenty's Carnival - is drawn more or less where the Olympics were, and it's hard not to think that's deliberate. But, well, it probably wasn't.
OK, I've spent FAR too long on this - must go before it gets any longer, bye :-)
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
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Posts: 2949

11/3/2013
Hurray, more info! I'll edit as we go.
  • Marble Arch it is! Good to know.
  • I daresay a lot of train stations were destroyed, or flooded, or repurposed, or filled with venomous slugs, during the Fall. Perhaps Baker St was the largest surviving station that was pointing in the right direction to be connected to Hell.
  • I was looking at the umbrella sale text and the Markov case a few days ago, but forgot about it when I was writing this up! The west side of the city seems to have been the most disarranged by the Fall, so perhaps it's a new bridge, or an existing one that got moved. Edit: Wiki says that Thomas Hood wrote a poem about Waterloo Bridge. Could be the link!
  • I only got the Jekyll & Hide gag as I was writing this all up.
  • The University is certainly steeped in Oxbridge, but King's College being aristocratic and CoE while University College was radial, secular and upper-middle class certainly fits. Though in real life, King's has a Principal and UC a Provost. Also, the mottos fit - "Superbe et sophistice" for "Sancte et Sapienter" and "Omnes adsint, quamvis dementi, quamvis nefasti" for "Cuncti adsint meritaeque expectent praemia palmae".
  • St Bartholomew's sounds solid!
  • Covent - Convent - Nuns - Veil?
  • Wikipedia says that, in fact, Gropecunt Lane was just next to Puppekirty Lane, which it translates as "poke-skirt". Combine the two and we have something not dissimilar to Grabskirt! That would put it in the region of Spite, but the game text says it's Veilgarden, so I'm just assuming that it's near the border.
  • Every period source I find prior to the 1890s refers to the "Zoological Gardens" - and even the 90s sources put the abbreviation safely within quotation marks, accompanied by exclamation marks to indicate that this is an informal bit of writing, so they're allowed to use some young person's slang, really!
  • At first I thought Doubt Street was too far from the right place, but the more I look at it, the more certain it feels. I also notice that it's quite close to the church of St Dunstan-in-the-West, which many storytellers claim was where Sweeney Todd hid some of the bodies. So, I guess we've found the location of St Dunstan's!
  • The Bone bell apparently marks the opening of the night-market of Spite. So, certainly Cockney territory
  • Wilton's Music Hall was built on a public house known as the Mahogany Bar. Boom, you've solved it!
  • I made the Isle of Dogs connection years ago but never got the isle/pile gag. Bwaa waa waaaa.
  • Royal Opera House fits. I wonder if the Old Empress is the Imperial Theatre, referred to at least once in the Holmes canon as the famous "old Imperial"?
  • I had no idea where the Square of Lofty Words might be - I was familiar with Hyde Park being a centre of protest and public speaking, and was mildly surprised that Charley Square was identified as being in Watchmaker's, but I didn't know Speaker's Corner in particular.
  • I haven't really touched on the south-west, because it's become tangled with Karakorum, and that's a whole other can of snakes.

edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 11/3/2013

--
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook, the Libertarian Esotericist. Reginald Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Ms Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
FrillyShirt, featuring Doctor Taupe-Wainscot, the Most Boring Man in Fallen London.
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Flyte
Flyte
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Posts: 659

11/3/2013
...

Wow.

Two things.
  1. I suspect the Bishop of Southwark is inspired not by any historical counterpart, but by a famous incident involving the previous occupant of the post and an unfortunate combination of alcohol, children's toys, someone else's car and the words 'I'm the Bishop of Southwark! It's what I do!'

  2. The University is definitely the University of London. The rivalry between University College and King's College is historically well documented; UC was explicitly created as a secular alternative to Oxbridge; it offered nonsensical, flim-flammy subjects like English Literature; it was inspired by the radical ideas of Jeremy Bentham; and by 1891, it even admitted women. Furthermore, these institutions are not entirely without quadrangles.

    There are certainly many Oxbridge tropes in play, but I think they're there as light-hearted crowd pleasers. Leaving aside the small matter that Oxford and Cambridge are very much not in London, neither had or has a reputation for being radical, nor is there a disparity in wealth. Finally, Summerset and Benthic are in no way described as if each were a federation of separate colleges; they're always portrayed as individual colleges, like Trinity or Magdalene or... University College.

edited by Flyte on 11/3/2013
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Richard
Richard
Posts: 304

11/3/2013
Flyte wrote:
The University is definitely the University of London. The rivalry between University College and King's College is historically well documented; UC was explicitly created as a secular alternative to Oxbridge; it offered nonsensical, flim-flammy subjects like English Literature; it was inspired by the radical ideas of Jeremy Bentham; and by 1891, it even *gasp* admitted women. Furthermore, these institutions are not entirely devoid of quadrangles.

Well, I'm convinced by that (and even more so by the mottos).

I've visited bits of UCL several times over the years, but somehow had completely managed to miss the fact it does indeed contain a bloomin' big quadrangle! There are pictures on Wikipedia and everything. How educational this all is.
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
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Posts: 2949

11/3/2013
That story about the Bishop of Southwark is hilarious.

I just looked up UCL's quad - I love that one of Wiki's captions refers to the "observatory" and another to the "astronomy shed". (Also, just realised that Benthic's motto may well be a reference to Lady Caroline Lamb's famous description of Byron. I daresay some of Benthic's teachings are dangerous to know, but, hey, that's what education's for!)

Final thought: looking further into Hood's poem The Bridge of Sighs - it features the recurring line "young, and so fair" - possibly the inspiration of the Tower of Knives' honey-maniac's chant, "so young, so pale"? I dunno - could be a reach.

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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook, the Libertarian Esotericist. Reginald Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Ms Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
FrillyShirt, featuring Doctor Taupe-Wainscot, the Most Boring Man in Fallen London.
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Aximillio
Aximillio
Posts: 1251

11/3/2013
Not sure how relevant this is,but here's an image. You can resize it by editing the url.

edited by Aximillio on 11/3/2013

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Alexis Kennedy
Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374

11/3/2013
This is a grand thread. Well assembled, folks! I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, and anyway the author is dead and all that. But there are some distorting birth-scars that I'll flag up to save people from possible arguments over things that are actually inconsistent - especially now Aximilio's posted that map image.


  • That map image is not a perfect reflection of Victorian London's geography (check out the discrepancy between the famous S-curve around Greenwich, and the Stolen River equivalent - this caused us some headaches when we revisited the geography for Sunless Sea). This is partly artistic licence and partly deliberate (the Fall and the Bazaar distorted London). So don't take it too literally.

  • Hood's Bridge is, in fact, Waterloo Bridge... the content that puts the river at the end of Moloch Street was written by someone who hadn't lived in London and was possibly looking at the wrong bit of the map. My bad for letting it through review, and I've done penance by fixing the text.

  • The Shuttered Palace is actually not Buckingham Palace, and its westward placement on the map isn't a mistake. There's a counterfactual explanation for the Empress residing there, but we've never more than glanced at it. You folks can probably work it out from first principles though.

  • Wolfstack Docks., pile of dogs. I didn't sink quite that low! smile It is a reference to the Isle of Dogs, of course, but the 'stack' bit was vaguely meant to evoke 'smoke-stack'. The pile is an unfortunate coincidence.

  • The Square of Lofty Words dates from an early spitballing session from before the game was actually set in London - so it never found a real-world twin.

  • Benthic/Summerset are emphatically UCL/King's, but Yasmeen, who wrote much of the University content, seasoned it with her Cambridge experience, so those of you who detected that flavour didn't entirely imagine it.

  • Eventually someone will point out that 'Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde' was written in 1886, far too late to have given its name to Hyde Park.... again my bad for letting this one slip through review. We will no doubt retcon an explanation at some point, but I hereby put my hand up to it to pre-empt confusion.

  • The Bazaar is actually located by Borough Market - arguably the oldest market in London, though there are competing claims, so I'm afraid it was a stab at historical resonance rather than subversion. In the great tradition of fictionally convenient geography, its spires end up being visible from implausible windows, so there are very possibly inconsistencies in various bits of text that suggest it's in all sort of places.

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    Guest

    11/3/2013
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:

    • The Shuttered Palace is actually not Buckingham Palace, and its westward placement on the map isn't a mistake. There's a counterfactual explanation for the Empress residing there, but we've never more than glanced at it. You folks can probably work it out from first principles though.

  • Kensington perhaps?
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    lady ciel
    lady ciel
    Posts: 2446

    11/3/2013
    I presume that means that the Shuttered Palace is Kensington Palace - at least I think that is the most likely.

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    ciel

    No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome though loitering might be inconvenient at times. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.

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    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
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    11/3/2013
    Alexis Kennedy wrote:
    This is a grand thread. Well assembled, folks! I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, and anyway the author is dead and all that.


    So delighted you enjoy it! Personally, I like to think of the author as alive but collaborative - in other words, I'd welcome definitive comment, but I'm having fun either way.

    • Alexis Kennedy wrote:
      The Shuttered Palace is actually not Buckingham Palace, and its westward placement on the map isn't a mistake. There's a counterfactual explanation for the Empress residing there, but we've never more than glanced at it. You folks can probably work it out from first principles though.
    The Shuttered Palace art does look more like Kensington Palace - albeit with some of the facing removed, and with what looks like a miniature Crystal Palace occupying the roof. That would put it on the wrong side of the park, though...


    • Alexis Kennedy wrote:
      Eventually someone will point out that 'Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde' was written in 1886, far too late to have given its name to Hyde Park.... again my bad for letting this one slip through review. We will no doubt retcon an explanation at some point, but I hereby put my hand up to it to pre-empt confusion.
    D'you know, I never would have assumed that the story itself was the canonical inspiration? I'd have simply assumed that Hyde Park was redesigned after the Fall by Gertrude Jekyll, or something like.

    --
    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook, the Libertarian Esotericist. Reginald Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
    Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Ms Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
    FrillyShirt, featuring Doctor Taupe-Wainscot, the Most Boring Man in Fallen London.
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    Richard
    Richard
    Posts: 304

    11/3/2013
    You know, I'd been kind-of hoping you'd pop up and deny the "pile of dogs" thing, because I am more delighted than I can possibly convey to have made it up myself.

    Also, the late date of Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde hadn't escaped my note... but 1886 is still before the game began, isn't it? The novella was an immediate sensation, as I understand it. Not completely implausible that some newspaper or other used Jekyll Gardens as a joke and it took off from there.

    Oh God, I'm now seriously debating the cultural history of an entirely fictitious world.
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    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 1719

    11/3/2013
    Richard wrote:
    You know, I'd been kind-of hoping you'd pop up and deny the "pile of dogs" thing, because I am more delighted than I can possibly convey to have made it up myself.

    Also, the late date of Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde hadn't escaped my note... but 1886 is still before the game began, isn't it? The novella was an immediate sensation, as I understand it. Not completely implausible that some newspaper or other used Jekyll Gardens as a joke and it took off from there.

    Oh God, I'm now seriously debating the cultural history of an entirely fictitious world.


    1886 may be (just) before the game began, Richard, but it way post-dates the Fall of London, which I believe was 30 years previous to the actual starting point of the game. See http://www.failbettergames.com/?page_id=20

    Personally, I rather regret that the "pile of dogs" pun was unintentional, but that may just be me. :-)
    edited by cathyr19355 on 11/3/2013

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    Cathy Raymond
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    Richard
    Richard
    Posts: 304

    11/3/2013
    Catherine Raymond wrote:
    1886 may be (just) before the game began, Richard, but it way post-dates the Fall of London, which I believe was 30 years previous to the actual starting point of the game. See http://www.failbettergames.com/?page_id=20

    Well yes, but a book could make its way down there, can't it? I mean, *I* made my way down there at the very start of my personal game, and I must be worth quite a few novellas.

    Or maybe RLS himself went down there! He wasn't shy of travel. Perhaps he heard about Prince Albert's miraculous turnaround, and thought the air would be beneficial for his own weak chest.

    (I think what this post teaches us is that you can retro-fit a justification to almost anything, if you're sufficiently determined about it.)
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    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook
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    Posts: 2949

    11/3/2013
    For what it's worth, Gertrude Jekyll was not only an influential designer of gardens but also a family friend of Robert Louis Stevenson, so it could be both - she redesigned and renamed the gardens to reflect the flora of the Neath and the Masters' policies, and RLS went on to write a rather different Strange Case, in which the transformation is caused by a fungal infestation and consciously reflects the old and new gardens. It could happen!

    (PS: I'll be the first to confess, I post a fair bit -
    a hundred in just this last month!
    I just had my one thousandth post, I admit,
    and this is my thousand-and-oneth!)
    edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 11/3/2013

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    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook, the Libertarian Esotericist. Reginald Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
    Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Ms Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
    FrillyShirt, featuring Doctor Taupe-Wainscot, the Most Boring Man in Fallen London.
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    Richard
    Richard
    Posts: 304

    11/3/2013
    Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
    The Shuttered Palace art does look more like Kensington Palace - albeit with some of the facing removed, and with what looks like a miniature Crystal Palace occupying the roof. That would put it on the wrong side of the park, though...

    To save anyone else doing the research I've just done, it can't actually be the Crystal Palace because that was removed from Hyde Park by 1854. (And a certain gentleman didn't pop his clogs until 1861, so even allowing for the "thirty years" thing being approximate, it doesn't add up.)

    So, OK, I buy the idea that it's Kensington Palace. It's a bit odd that it seems to be to the east of Jekyll Gardens, but maybe the Bazaar just sort of moved a bit. I hereby coin the term "spacey-wacey", the Fallen London equivalent of timey-wimey.
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    Josiah Thimblerig
    Josiah Thimblerig
    Posts: 36

    11/3/2013
    Richard wrote:
    Aaargh! Must resist, must resist... no, I can't resist. Here we go.
    <snip>Moloch Street - even before the Holmes connection emerged, I thought this was Baker Street because of the fact it's close to Marylebone and has an underground station. The station appears to be a terminus in the game, which Baker Street isn't (and never was) - but there's no real-world terminus in the area, and Baker Street is a big enough station that it's within the realm of dramatic licence.
    <snip>


    There was and is a real-world terminus in the area - Marylebone Station was built as the London terminus of the Great Central railway and a few surface lines still run to there. Melcombe Place is nearby - Moloch Street could be an echo? I lived in Melcombe Court for some years so know this area well.

    Marylebone station still has much of its original appearance and is frequently used as a film site for stories set in periods from the Victorian era to world war 2.

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    Richard
    Richard
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    11/3/2013
    Josiah Thimblerig wrote:
    There was and is a real-world terminus in the area - Marylebone Station was built as the London terminus of the Great Central railway and a few surface lines still run to there. Melcombe Place is nearby - Moloch Street could be an echo? I lived in Melcombe Court for some years so know this area well.

    Oh yes indeed, I've travelled through Marylebone Station many a time (I had relatives who lived in Warwick). But Moloch Street station is an underground station, and given that Hell is to the west, the line which goes there is presumably a twisted variant of the Metropolitan Line. That never terminated anywhere near Marylebone - it always ran through to Farringdon.

    Someone's bound to call me on this now, so... saying that Baker Street "never was" a terminus was complete tosh, because the Bakerloo Line originally terminated there. That's (half of) why it's called Bakerloo. But it wasn't built until the 1900's :-)

    Cheers
    Richard
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