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FLR: The Cheery Man and The Last Constable Messages in this topic - RSS

Anniken
Anniken
Posts: 22

3/25/2018
I finished this quest a few days ago. At first I was a tad unhappy with the luck check (might I suggest removing the little "you were unlucky, better luck next time" thingy, just this once? It REALLY rubs it in). Now… I'm just very affected and mourning my friend the Last Constable. She and her father aren't so different, y'know? Nicely done.

--
an irresistible, breathtaking, midnight and sinister lady
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Nero Keller
Nero Keller
Posts: 44

4/14/2018
I confess to having an odd time of it.

[spoiler]I originally played it on the app when it was released, and my ally, the Last Constable, somehow survived the luck check gauntlet in-game. However, IRL luck checks were less friendly, and the app refused to sync. Round 2 had her be the one killed. Then Failbetter redid the conclusion and offered a reset, so on Round 3, the Last Constable won again and is now still alive.

I wasn't aware that the Last Constable and the Cheery Man were fighting a lethal sparring bout, but I'm glad she's the one who won two rounds.[/spoiler]

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Archbishop%20Nero%20Keller - Nero Keller, Monster Hunter of a notoriously small stature and absurdly high Dangerous. Paramount Presence, Archbishop, highly Renowned, incredibly ascetic.
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Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 606

5/30/2018
I'm really rather disappointed, if probably for a different reason than most other people here.

You see, I read through this thread when it first came out, and saw that the odds were stacked against you. Then I went away doing other things (I'm prone to putting off stories for months), until the Feast rolled around, and then I made the decision to get the Stiff-Backed Young Lady with the express purpose of seeing her through this game of chance to a most likely tragic ending. Now, I'd sided with the Constable long, long ago, but I didn't have any extreme emotional attachement to her. I liked her a lot as a character, but the narrative value of the bad ending was even more appealing - I would have cherised her Memory (or whatever the replacement item for the SBYL is called), it would have added (depth, (back)story) to my in-game character, and in short I would have been sad but satisfied. (In fact it's even mechanically better, as you get two items to replace your one...)

Instead, on the first round the Cheery Man promptly dies, the Last Constable sends me away telling she "needs a moment", and bam story's over and I never hear from it again.

I must say I can't remember the last time I have felt so unsatisfied. I feel like this is even worse than expecting your ally to live and have them die - as at least in that case you have a clear reason to be sad, perhaps devastated, which bears testament to the quality of the game's writing and worldbuilding: which is valuably in much the same way that an actual tragedy novel is valuable and worth reading (I fondly remember the last story I read which brought me to near-tears). In my case, though, where I was expecting an emotional ending and got... nothing much? I'm not even sure what to feel. I guess I can be happy she's alive? Yay? But because I barely ever interacted with her previously, she would really have been more memorable as a memory (excuse the tautology) than as yet another interesting but ultimately utterly inconsequential living character. So I'm left with just... emptiness and disappointment, and that's in no way a hallmark of a good story.

Passionario wrote:
RNG should not be permitted to rob players of the chance to experience true tragedy and the emotional impact of a permanent outcome. Everyone should be able to revel in the loss, not just the randomly chosen 50%.



EDIT: Forgot to add, that people who want their character to survive at any cost do have that option, ever since deviling with the tankards guarantees success. But people like me who seek narrative satisfication through the "bad end" have no choice but to brave the dice... Especially since resetting was disabled. Which is especially painful for me, because FB changed the odds within a day listening to the people disappointed in the bad ending, and yet now - after many months of the same kind of outcry and feedback from people asking for it to be put back - the resetting option is still not there, and will likely never be. Feels kinda preferential, even though I know it obviously isn't.
For reference, this is pretty much the only story ever for which I have even considered spending Fate on a reset, as normally I like living with the consequences of my choices.
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 5/30/2018

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 940

5/30/2018
While I see your point, those who asked for the option to guarantee success (and lose their friend, might I add) were asking for something that made narrative sense. You want her to live above all, you cheat and you get your 'rewards' - save the person, lose the friendship. Making sure she gets poisoned, well, this does not make sense if she is your friend.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 606

5/30/2018
I'm more arguing in favour of a reset* (as well as just venting, since I was really looking forward to developing my character through this and was left with nothing of singificance happening).

*Or against RNG mechanics - obviously removing them from this story will never happen, since it would probably require a complete rework of the ending, but by pointing out the problems maybe at least FB will take this feedback to heart and be more careful with RNG endings in the future. And who knows, maybe they will revisit this story at some point in the distant future.
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 5/30/2018

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 940

5/30/2018
Oh I think we can agree that leaving the ending up to the RNG was not a good idea at all.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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CogDiss
CogDiss
Posts: 11

6/2/2018
I didn't see this thread until now and I'm surprised and disappointed that this story received such a negative reaction. I just wanted to chime in to say that I found it to be one of the highlights of my Fallen London experience thus far.

[spoiler]I told the Last Constable I loved her, in the hopes of being able to marry her, and received her rejection.

Then I rigged the "game" ensure the Cheery Man died and she lived, and she was furious with me and stormed off, never wanting to see me again.[/spoiler]

Contrary to finding fault with the RNG mechanics, I actually thought that was a great element because it compelled me to do what was necessary to save The Last Constable even though I knew (because the game warned me in advance) that this would upset her. It was an actually difficult and emotionally resonant choice precisely because I had to choose between a bad option and a potentially much worse one. It was one of the rare moments in Fallen London where I felt anything but heroic but still felt that I made the "right" decision and did what I had to do. It would have been so much more dull if I could have just chosen a guaranteed happy ending.

I loved this and I hope that writers don't shy away from potentially upsetting resolutions as a result of the reaction here.

--
Joss Marr - Writer, investigator, scholar, lover of truth and justice, enemy of ignorance and corruption, cynic and idealist
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Jason5237
Jason5237
Posts: 232

6/2/2018
Is there currently an option to reset this storyline with fate?
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Jason5237
Jason5237
Posts: 232

6/2/2018
So I saw mentioned within this thread that the option to reset is under Write Letters in your Lodgings, for 20 Fate. I’m not seeing it there under the open beta site.
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PSGarak
PSGarak
Posts: 611

6/3/2018
Jason5237 wrote:
So I saw mentioned within this thread that the option to reset is under Write Letters in your Lodgings, for 20 Fate. I’m not seeing it there under the open beta site.

When the conclusion to the story was first released, there was an option to reset with Fate. After some writing and balance changes, FBG decided the option to reset was not in line with their vision of the story, and removed it.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 573

6/3/2018
Jason5237 wrote:
So I saw mentioned within this thread that the option to reset is under Write Letters in your Lodgings, for 20 Fate. I’m not seeing it there under the open beta site.

I believe it was discussed somewhere in the backlog of thread pages, but essentially, the option was removed. The odds were far less favorable than they are now when engaging in an honest duel between the two or doubling the dosage of poison, much to everyone's annoyance. If I recall correctly, you weren't even guaranteed a success if you cheated. Many players felt that the odds were unfair and placed you automatically on the losing side regardless of your decisions, and Failbetter seemed to more or less agree with this sentiment. From what I understand, they didn't want to make players feel that they were setting up players for financial abuse or to devalue the ending, so they made the cheating option a guaranteed success and the honest challenge a more evenly split chance of success or failure. Unfortunately, in an effort to further ensure no players were being taken advantage of, they removed the reset option altogether. The idea was that previous players who completed the story would receive a second chance to decide a course of action, and from this point, players could decide to either give your side the fair shot they wanted at risk of their life or guarantee their success at the cost of their disapproval, this time with understanding that choices would be permanent and any potential future content involving them wouldn't be solely tainted by cheating tactics.

To be honest, it still wasn't received well by many, and I agree. Like others have said, leaving it up to RNG wasn't the best choice, and the fact that people couldn't reset the story wasn't taken well. I don't like how Failbetter went about it, but I'll give them this: if I'm gonna be upset with a company's business practices, the best I can ask for is that it be done out of concern for the well being of their player base. Quality of content aside, I can only be so upset at a company wanting to make their purchase options as clear cut and fair as possible, especially when compared to other less reputable devs. But yeah, no reset option now. Sorry, friend.

--
Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft


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Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 606

6/4/2018
"...you were placed automatically on the losing side..."
"...made... a guaranteed success"
While I don't disagree with your point, I'm still salty enough to use this as an opportunity to rant more about how "success" is subjective. I only saw an option for guaranteed failure; in the end, the """"tragedy"""" story led to a happy ending (and even that wasn't "happy" in the sense of warranting celebration or just being noteworthy in any way, more like "ok nothing too bad happened, cool, story's over").

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Jason5237
Jason5237
Posts: 232

6/4/2018
@ PSGarak & Sir Joseph Marlen,

Thank you! In between then and now, I’ve actually read through this entire thread from start to finish. I saw later on that they did indeed remove the option to restart. I don’t understand why the option to restart this story isolated from the litany of other stories we can restart, but that is FB’s prerogative.

I will say that this is one of the more divisive threads I’ve read. I understand that many were emotionally invested in one of these characters; I certainly was. But I do not understand the ardent complaints about the ending and mechanic. All FL stories come to an end, all have varying types of mechanics, and all have varied levels of investment and impact by the player. Each player may attribute their own subtext to the story, just like a good book. And Fallen London is certainly like a grand, voluminous, and rich piece of literature, packaged in a choose-your-own adventure framework.

J
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Kukapetal
Kukapetal
Posts: 1440

6/5/2018
Sigh......I miss Cheeryman
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xKiv
xKiv
Posts: 796

6/5/2018
Jason5237 wrote:
I don’t understand why the option to restart this story isolated from the litany of other stories we can restart, but that is FB’s prerogative.


IIRC it was because 1) it allowed players to collect "reward" items from all endings (which was an unintended and unwelcome sideeffect), including both feast-of-rose companions (which are intendended to be mutually exclusive) and 2) it encouraged certain kind of players to throw money at the RNG until they got the ending they wanted, which is not the intended purpose of *replaying* a story.

--
https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3340

6/6/2018
It actually wouldn't let players collect the items from every ending--the conclusion only gives the unique items if the player had the relevant companion. The Feast companion options already require that the player doesn't have the other companion, and it would be simple enough for it to lock it with the ghost versions.

While it makes sense to prevent the player from obtaining the memory version of their foe, I do hope Failbetter lets us obtain their weapon at next year's Feast. There's plenty of ways it could make sense narratively. For example, my character would love to have the Cheery Man's cane as a trophy recognizing a worthy opponent.

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

For the holiday season, send me Christmas Cards for sips of Cider! Fogscapes with Tentacles strongly preferred. (Only one per character, sorry!)

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Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 102

7/2/2018
FBG mentioned that the Last Constable opportunity deck card would be coming back, for those who keep her alive to the end. But I'm not seeing it, still.
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Jason5237
Jason5237
Posts: 232

7/2/2018
Televangelist wrote:
FBG mentioned that the Last Constable opportunity deck card would be coming back, for those who keep her alive to the end. But I'm not seeing it, still.


Would love this! I sided with her and was able to assist her in felling her father in the end. Her opportunity card had many options on it and I believe it was only available for one advancement level earlier on.

J-
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Wilhelm Leibniz III
Wilhelm Leibniz III
Posts: 58

7/2/2018
Televangelist wrote:
FBG mentioned that the Last Constable opportunity deck card would be coming back, for those who keep her alive to the end. But I'm not seeing it, still.

Will they let us reset it again?

--
Wilhelm Leibniz III, Glassman, Hearts Desire
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 940

7/2/2018
Ι kept her alive but she won't talk to me. I would love to get a card even if it is not profitable, to keep the story alive.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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