Powered by Jitbit .Net Forum free trial version.

HomeFallen London » Election

A place for in-game political discussion.

Fantasy Election League Shakedown Messages in this topic - RSS

Vexpont
Vexpont
Posts: 87

7/29/2017
Despite numerous earlier threads, I’m starting a new one for this, because others are largely concerned with individual candidates and reasons to support them. Which is good, but I’d like to investigate which candidates would be best matched against each other.

A confession – I don’t care all that much who wins Elections. I’d just like a two-horse race. Since true three-way contests are very unlikely, what you’d ideally set up is a balanced pair of rivals, plus a worthy wildcard who’ll make a fun and playable contrast.

What doesn’t matter IMO: a candidate’s platform, the extent to which they’re expected to stick to it, revelations about their past, or the plausibility of their running at all. These things are tests of ingenuity for the writers, in order to craft a storyline that’s roughly consistent. Do they matter? I doubt it.

What probably matters is how charismatic an NPC is in-game to start with. But in an amoral fantastic dystopia, ‘charismatic’ is a broad brush. In the interests of coming up with a vague estimate of how well-matched various candidates may be, I suggest submitting only three Fantasy Election Leagues per person, without any commentary.

Given enough results, it may be possible to see how often various NPCs are matched up as fair-ish rivals. And in any case, I’d be interested to read other peoples’ picks. Here are mine:

The Topsy King
Mrs. Plenty
The Captivating Princess

The Ambitious Barrister
The Tentacled Entrepreneur
Mr. Clathermont

The Cheery Man
The Wry Functionary
F.F. Gebrandt

--
Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
+2 link
Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 327

7/30/2017
Vexpont wrote:
What doesn’t matter IMO: a candidate’s platform, the extent to which they’re expected to stick to it, revelations about their past, or the plausibility of their running at all. These things are tests of ingenuity for the writers, in order to craft a storyline that’s roughly consistent. Do they matter? I doubt it.

Every conversation I had this year about why people chose which candidate came down in the end to platform, particularly in cases where the PC switched candidates or seriously considered doing so. Occasionally when platforms were fairly even, candidate information helped sway to one side or another. Only one person among my acquaintances mentioned "this candidate is an interesting character" as a primary motivation, and even in that case platform was still a significant factor.

Now, I admit that this chiefly proves that my acquaintances are dedicated roleplayers. However, I think it is enough to argue that campaign platform is not merely a writing exercise.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
+4 link
Yeah
Yeah
Posts: 66

7/31/2017
Siankan wrote:
Vexpont wrote:
What doesn’t matter IMO: a candidate’s platform, the extent to which they’re expected to stick to it, revelations about their past, or the plausibility of their running at all. These things are tests of ingenuity for the writers, in order to craft a storyline that’s roughly consistent. Do they matter? I doubt it.

Every conversation I had this year about why people chose which candidate came down in the end to platform, particularly in cases where the PC switched candidates or seriously considered doing so. Occasionally when platforms were fairly even, candidate information helped sway to one side or another. Only one person among my acquaintances mentioned "this candidate is an interesting character" as a primary motivation, and even in that case platform was still a significant factor.

Now, I admit that this chiefly proves that my acquaintances are dedicated roleplayers. However, I think it is enough to argue that campaign platform is not merely a writing exercise.



For me, it depends purely on the character. I've mentioned on the forums that I doubt I'd ever vote against the Ambitious Barrister, even as someone who generally strives to be as anti-hell as possible. I voted on what character I thought would be most interesting considering future content that's been confirmed, the Detective. Having her as mayor with the Dilmun Club expansion would likely have had some extra tidbits here and there. Most the (admittedly few) friends I have whom play Fallen London feel much the same way. Naturally, these are the two extreme /ways/ to play the game, based on mechanics and content vs. playing as a character, though I figure they each have a rather decent playerbase.


More to the point, I don't think the Tentacled Entrepreneur or Mr. Clathermont have a chance in hell compared to the Barrister, even beyond my obvious bias. The former is only seen during a party, if I remember correctly. The Jovial Contrarian /also/ began in that party, though he also had a part in the whole Trailing the Affluent detective thing, and gave players a nice little bit of clothing. The Contrarian was also rather characterful for his brief interactions, while the Tentacled Entrepreneur is... Just kinda a rubbery man. In a suit. I don't think he'd fare much better or worse than just a random rubbery, really. Mr. Clathermont is a character I'm not sure I've met anyone who actually likes, and he's also largely part of a seasonal bit of content, so a lot of people have likely missed him. The Ambitious Barrister is someone every PoSI has met, some have met a second time to gain access to Dramatic Tension carousels, a bit fewer still have met a third time in the Iron Republic, and a rare, special handful have met between four and eight times on the path to Paramount Presence.

The first and third I think are about even, though I don't think F.F. Gebrandt will stack competitively against the other two, for largely the same reasons as Clathermont and the Tentacled Entrepreneur.

--
Yeah Man - A Bleeding-heart hoarder of curiosities.
+2 link
Lady Sapho Byron
Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 454

11 days ago
Vexpont wrote:
What doesn’t matter IMO: a candidate’s platform, the extent to which they’re expected to stick to it, revelations about their past, or the plausibility of their running at all ... Do they matter? I doubt it.


Oddly enough, these are the very things that, variably, make the Election my favorite festival and strongly influence for whom I vote. Also, candidates lacking plausible reasons for running (that is, reasons inconsistent with their character development) would make me extremely cross.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corestry Since 1892.
+3 link
Vavakx Nonexus
Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 781

11 days ago
I wouldn't push revelations aside as being important (they help get a candidate get involved with more Factions, which can immediately sway a ton of votes *cough cough* Me, the Detective and Snakes *cough cough* A bunch of people, Feducci and Hell *cough cough*, and it gets the writers to show off their writing chops + add extra lore to the game. I can't complain.

Arguing about platforms does indeed feel a bit tedious to me, as 'who can help the most people the most' doesn't really strike me as a particularly engaging question (voting for the populist candidate didn't ever strike me as an engaging character choice. It's like a nod in a conversation. You're just confirming a basic assumptions that you don't want people suffering, which feels Not That Great when more complex & interesting choices can be made).

It also happens a lot that one candidate just becomes the Widely Accepted Moderate Choice (they often support the simpler factions like Society, Church or Docks, too) and every debate about platforms and public benefits ends up swinging their way (*cough cough* Jenny *cough cough* DTC *cough cough*).

--
Vavakx Nonexus, the Deranged Solicitor: Black-and-Gold. and a Particularly Fancy Dress.

Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. Someday.

Hear the Deranged Solicitor's story along with several others at The Tower of Mind and Law: Tales from 'Euphemia'
+3 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1560

11 days ago
I don't think the DTC was the "moderate" choice. And platforms are about how you want to change London.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

"BEHIND THE WORLD IS THE MANSUS.
THE MANSUS IS THE FORTRESS OF HOURS.
THE MANSUS IS THE HOUSE OF THE SUN.
ITS CORRIDORS ARE THE ANGLES OF TIME.
LIFE BEGINS IN THE MANSUS; MEMORY ENDS THERE."

Please consider donating to Alexis Kennedy's Cultist Simulator

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1144821177/cultist-simulator-behold-our-end?ref=esrx6w
+1 link
Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4323

11 days ago
I'd be rather surprised if the Fallen London setting changed in a significant way due to the elections. It'd be a fair amount of work to constantly try to make sure all the existing content was consistent with the current state of things, as opposed to mayors simply affecting London in a smaller, more contained way (like Jenny's school).

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
+3 link
xKiv
xKiv
Posts: 723

10 days ago
Anne Auclair wrote:
And platforms are about how you want to change London.


Some platforms are about higher standing.

<_<
>_>

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
+1 link
Vexpont
Vexpont
Posts: 87

10 days ago
The thread lives! It’s good to see it hasn’t withered on the mycelium. It was my hope that this thread might become a macro analysis of which candidates are a fair match, over the whole player base, divorced from individual preferences. Apologies if I don’t answer everyone’s points by username. I've read them all.

Lady Sapho Byron wrote:
Vexpont wrote:
What doesn’t matter IMO: a candidate’s platform, the extent to which they’re expected to stick to it, revelations about their past, or the plausibility of their running at all ... Do they matter? I doubt it.
Oddly enough, these are the very things that, variably, make the Election my favorite festival and strongly influence for whom I vote. Also, candidates lacking plausible reasons for running (that is, reasons inconsistent with their character development) would make me extremely cross.
All the things you describe are indispensable for creating atmosphere and enjoyment. I just wonder if they’re important in deciding who wins. Over the entire player-base, there’s going to be a lot of averaging-out, and our collective preferences will be simpler than those of any individual. Hence my suspicion that the two most important factors influencing which candidate wins are basic: sheer familiarity, and charisma/coolness.

(Also, when I said ‘plausibility’, I meant within the canon of the game. For example, Rubbery Men are despised, feared and persecuted by ordinary Londoners and could not plausibly stand for Mayor. Would that in itself stop any player voting for one? The quick-n-dirty poll on this board suggests not, and I reckon the same probably goes for devils, and snuffers who couldn’t plausibly risk being exposed.)

Vavakx Nonexus wrote:
It also happens a lot that one candidate just becomes the Widely Accepted Moderate Choice (they often support the simpler factions like Society, Church or Docks, too) and every debate about platforms and public benefits ends up swinging their way (*cough cough* Jenny *cough cough* DTC *cough cough*).
Jenny and the DTC make an interesting comparison IMO, since as you say, the core of their campaigns were pretty similar. But one of them is a sexpot former battle nun who’s familiar to players at least from sidebar text, and the other is a trad-CoE (OK, maybe the somewhat less trad Church-of-Neathland) social reformer who urges temperance (which for many US players probably translates as ‘a Prohibitionist, more or less’). Jenny is both more familiar, and hugely more charismatic.

Sara Hysaro wrote:
I'd be rather surprised if the Fallen London setting changed in a significant way due to the elections. It'd be a fair amount of work to constantly try to make sure all the existing content was consistent with the current state of things, as opposed to mayors simply affecting London in a smaller, more contained way (like Jenny's school).
Exactly this. It’s going to be difficult to create a startling revelation that won’t significantly alter a major NPC’s personality and allegiances. The Implacable Detective’s Parabola connection is as as daring as it’s got, and even that became ambiguous (I got the impression it had been tweaked at last minute).

Candidates can’t follow through on their campaign promises in any way that seriously alters the setting – and we don’t really expect them to. And content like The Dilmun Club needs to have a shelf-life of years, long after the ripples of having a Dilmun member who’s also an Election candidate have dispersed. If I were an FL writer, I’d be very reluctant to create a persistent election-linked Quality just to achieve a neat effect in the Dilmun Club.

On the Election Data thread, Jenson Shepherd wrote:
On a macro level the final results in both elections mirrored the midpoint polls. It's sort of a shame that the second half of the election is just a slouch to its inevitable conclusion.
This is what I 100% agree with. I’ll back a candidate I know for sure is going to lose if they’re the best RP fit (and wisely, there is no in-game downside to backing a loser). But I’d still like there to be some uncertainty about who is going to be the victor, and for that, you need candidate trios that won’t result in an early favourite holding the lead for a fortnight, while the writers scrabble to keep up an air of suspense.

Ideally, it’d be great if people could suggest two candidates they consider fairly matched, or three who’d make an interesting set even though one was the unfavourite. From my own paltry efforts, multiple sets of three fairly matched candidates are very hard to construct.

--
Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
+3 link
Vexpont
Vexpont
Posts: 87

10 days ago
In the spirit of inciting more people to reckon ‘these suck/these need adjusting/here are some better suggestions’ (but especially the latter), I have cobbled another candidate trio and would greatly appreciate seeing anyone else's.

In each trio, the final name is the considered least likely to succeed. This needs careful balancing. You can’t have an underdog who’s too underdog - and failed candidates probably can’t run again for at least a year.

Feel free to use the same name in multiple combinations, because this is about working out which NPCs we reckon are a fair match on a macro level.

After reading everyone's earlier input, I think it's sensible to show one's working, because otherwise 'Just list candidate trios' is going to be too arbitrary. So here is one of mine:

His Amused Lordship
The Manager of the Royal Beth

The Sardonic Music-Hall Singer

Starting Favourite: His Amused Lordship.

Inquisitive and exploratory. Endearingly low sense of humour. No very divisive faction affiliations that we know of (yes, we can have our suspicions). A dreamer and a member of the Dilmun Club. Likely to have Society and University connections. Very strong candidate.

Strong opponent: The Manager of the Royal Beth.

Guilt-ridden, flamboyant, and protective. Almost certainly a Calendar Council member, but they're a very mixed bunch. Likely to have Clay and Drownie connections (though neither are official factions). Has a desperately sad backstory, and a major role in Heart's Desire.

Third fiddle: The Sardonic Music-Hall Singer.

Cynical and humane. HAL's crush who probably reckons we should cut the best deal we can with anyone who'll negotiate. Has a significant role in Bag a Legend. Likely to have powerful Bohemian connections, and may well know Monster-Hunter types like Mr. Inch. An early acquaintance in-game. Potential vote-splitter (belatedly recalled: may have links to Hell).
edited by Vexpont on 9/12/2017

--
Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
+1 link




Powered by Jitbit Forum 8.0.2.0 © 2006-2013 Jitbit Software