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genesis
genesis
Posts: 898

7 days ago
Do we know which of the three sisters is the youngest?

ETA: Presumably Phoebe, if we go with the Triple Goddess interpretation and she is the maiden
edited by genesis on 6/11/2018

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Aro Saren
Aro Saren
Posts: 39

7 days ago
There's also a matter of sisters' maid - she could do it too, but who is she?

And what about first noman? The Snuffer progenitor was just a guess, you know?
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Von Darken
Von Darken
Posts: 38

7 days ago
Sinnouk wrote:
genesis wrote:
Accepting that there is no single wholly convincing explanation for who hid the key in the well, what are the arguments against the sisters themselves? It's on their property, they know about it, they encourage you to retrieve it and it's very much *placed* in the well rather than just chucked it.
And then there's this sidebar snippet:
[spoiler]No one in London knows where this key is. Or at least, no one who knows is telling. And anyway, this doesn't stop them talking. They say that the one man who knew where it was just vanished one night, along with his boat. They say he was probably eaten by a zee-monster. They say that pirates might have scuppered him out of spite. Some of them say he had already hidden the key before he died. One or two of them say that he sold it to a mad king in Polythreme who gave it to his youngest daughter for safekeeping before being eaten by a Stone Pig. It's probably safe to discount those ones.[/spoiler]



If we take that king to be Hundreds, then surely he has only had one daughter, among his many sons. A daughter inscribed with words and poetry, who sails the zee and therefore could easily be in place to put ashore on a certain Keep and place a key in a well.

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Jaina
Jaina
Posts: 183

7 days ago
The sidebar snippets are often not accurate. The King of a Hundred Hearts was most definitely not eaten by a Stone Pig - he is alive (too alive, really). Also, if that text were accurate, he would have at *least* one daughter, as you can't have a youngest daughter without having more than one.

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genesis
genesis
Posts: 898

7 days ago
Sidebar snippets are rarely wholly accurate but many of them are very much intended to hide snippets of truth amid misdirection. In particular, the phrase "It's probably safe to discount those ones" suggests that a large part of preceding material is accurate, if disguised.

If the real story is such that (for example) "A man gave the key to a young woman who was not his bride. He hasn't been seen since but rumours have it he is now the king of Polythreme", it's easy to see how it could be morphed into this snippet.

I am not saying that this snippet *is* evidence but saying it's not wholly accurate misses that that's exactly where FBG have hidden a lot of lore in the past.

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xKiv
xKiv
Posts: 783

7 days ago
Jaina wrote:
as you can't have a youngest daughter without having more than one.


This is contralogical! An only daughter is by definition both the youngest and the oldest daughter.
It just doesn't make sense to say it that way, if you are a normal-ish person, and also not misinformed yourself (i.e. "his youngest child, who was also his only daughter" could easily morph into "his youngest, daughter" and then "his youngest daughter" over generational game of telephone).

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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3153

7 days ago
I don't think there's any indication that the Hundreds is related to the Hunter's Keep sisters, but since the rest of the snippet is clearly unimportant, the youngest sister could be the non-rumor part.

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nathan7
nathan7
Posts: 40

3 days ago
So, I have not been able to read this entire discussion, but I understand most of the answers, however, I don't understand:
How do we know the manager is may?
How do we know the architect of the dawn machine is June?
and how do we know the thief of faces is the first noman?

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Sir Joseph Marlen
Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 540

2 days ago
nathan7 wrote:

How do we know the manager is may?
How do we know the architect of the dawn machine is June?
and how do we know the thief of faces is the first noman?

If I recall correctly, the Manager was suspected of being May because of nods in The Calendar Code and his appearance in the text for the Revolutionaries Renown: 40 item. The title for the outcome text of reading May's book is "The madness of passion and tranquility and despair of separation." Along with madness being dropped into the text as a potential clue, his characterization writes him as a man who is both obsessed with his passion for his love of the King of a Hundred Hearts and despondent over the suffering and guilt it has caused him over the centuries. The text for May's book also describes old lovers with hearts of stone being separated by dark waters (all of which matches to the Manager's identity). And if the 40 Renown option doesn't describe the Manager as passionate yet despairing (ready to slaughter gods even if it won't make him happy, save his love from his hellish predicament, or revive the love between these separated lovers, yet still determined and mad enough to go through with it regardless), I don't know what does.

We know June created the Dawn Machine because burying the Council's secrets when using the Red-Feathered Pin item mentions how June made something that makes it harder for the Liberation of Night to occur. The Dawn Machine fits this well, literally usurping the rule of Law by bending reality with its own light; it's difficult to turn out the lights when one of your members has created an angry artificial star god, but it also fills the role of revolutionary goals, supplanting the natural order of reality with its own rules. Not exactly pro-Liberation, but potentially revolutionary in its own way.

Honestly, I'm unsure of where people are getting the Thief-of-Faces to be the first Noman. I answered that question with Mr Sacks, because he is quite literally the first Noman implemented by Failbetter, due to him originating from the first iteration of Sacksmas / Christmas in the Neath. Should anyone disagree, though, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/16/2018

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nathan7
nathan7
Posts: 40

1 days ago
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
nathan7 wrote:

How do we know the manager is may?
How do we know the architect of the dawn machine is June?
and how do we know the thief of faces is the first noman?

If I recall correctly, the Manager was suspected of being May because of nods in The Calendar Code and his appearance in the text for the Revolutionaries Renown: 40 item. The title for the outcome text of reading May's book is "The madness of passion and tranquility and despair of separation." Along with madness being dropped into the text as a potential clue, his characterization writes him as a man who is both obsessed with his passion for his love of the King of a Hundred Hearts and despondent over the suffering and guilt it has caused him over the centuries. The text for May's book also describes old lovers with hearts of stone being separated by dark waters (all of which matches to the Manager's identity). And if the 40 Renown option doesn't describe the Manager as passionate yet despairing (ready to slaughter gods even if it won't make him happy, save his love from his hellish predicament, or revive the love between these separated lovers, yet still determined and mad enough to go through with it regardless), I don't know what does.

We know June created the Dawn Machine because burying the Council's secrets when using the Red-Feathered Pin item mentions how June made something that makes it harder for the Liberation of Night to occur. The Dawn Machine fits this well, literally usurping the rule of Law by bending reality with its own light; it's difficult to turn out the lights when one of your members has created an angry artificial star god, but it also fills the role of revolutionary goals, supplanting the natural order of reality with its own rules. Not exactly pro-Liberation, but potentially revolutionary in its own way.

Honestly, I'm unsure of where people are getting the Thief-of-Faces to be the first Noman. I answered that question with Mr Sacks, because he is quite literally the first Noman implemented by Failbetter, due to him originating from the first iteration of Sacksmas / Christmas in the Neath. Should anyone disagree, though, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/16/2018





Thank you, those make sense to me! It is really hard to keep track of all the tiny lore details.
So I think I have the rigt answer for all except who hid the key in the well and maybe the noman one.

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Aro Saren
Aro Saren
Posts: 39

14 hours ago
Manager as may was all but said outright in either last Election investigations or 40 Renown Revolutionaries item storylet, cannot remember exactly.

There are references to Dawn Machine in Calendar Code museum, and it's said on Revolutionaries connection item, that after whatever June's buuilt, their work became even harder.
Though my bet actually was on December - they know Judgements personally and most likely has partaken of Red Science knowledge.

Thief-of-Faces as first Noman is entirely my decision - there was no concrete version at that time, and I decided mostly on a hunch, really. If you have any more plausible version, be sure to present it.
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