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Amélie Vaincœur
Amélie Vaincœur
Posts: 84

7/18/2017
May=Lilac is certainly possible. My own theory is the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner. After all, while we don't know much about her past, we do know she used to be involved with the revolutionaries. Maybe they're keeping her place open hoping she'll return to the fold...

I've re-read the Heart's Desire part where you give the manager your Key, and it doesn't sound like he himself hid it in the well on Hunter's Keep. I have no sensible theory who else could've done it...

As for the architect of the Dawn Machine, I don't have a theory, but something like a hunch: December.

I've also amended one of my answers in my previous post, since someone in another thread has made a very good point about the name Elderwick...
edited by Amélie Vaincœur on 7/18/2017

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a Nice Friend
a Nice Friend
Posts: 127

7/18/2017
Yeah, the manager gets teary-eyed when he sees the key and then implies that he's going to have to toss it out or hide it or something, but I have no idea as to how it got to Hunter's Keep or who it was that put it there.

Honestly, Hunter's Keep in general is completely baffling to me! I think I've explored every option in both the Fallen London and Sunless Sea versions of the island and I could not begin to guess at what's actually going on there.

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lady ciel
lady ciel
Posts: 2545

7/18/2017
I followed that theory as well and dug a little deeper. I put something about it on the previous page under a spoiler tag. The other spoiler is about Lusitania Row.

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Sinnouk
Sinnouk
Posts: 62

7/18/2017
Then Lilac as May is another Council member who's against the Liberation since she's so obsessed with the Bazaar?

Indigo Clardmond wrote:
This year's. Definitely this year's.
He's John? Well, then. My thanks.

Amélie Vaincœur wrote:
As for the architect of the Dawn Machine, I don't have a theory, but something like a hunch: December.
Oh, I thought the Council were trying to reverse-engineer the Dawn Machine in the Calendar Code (which I don't have access to durhur)

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dov
dov
Posts: 2489

7/18/2017
lady ciel wrote:
I wonder if any of the Failbetter Team is a Terry Pratchett fan. In the Night Watch 25th of May is Lilac Day in honour of the Glorious Revolution.

That's a very interesting idea.

And, yes, I'm pretty sure at least some at FBG are Pratchett fans. I seem to recall a post they made about him when he passed away.

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Indigo Clardmond
Indigo Clardmond
Posts: 57

7/18/2017
Note the manager says "a hundred hands and a thousand eyes". This implies to me the key has been passed along through the possession of at least a hundred others since he last had it. Also note all three of the sisters seem to know exactly where the key is, purposefully guide you toward it, and their maid actually is IN the well, though whether that's for putting the key there or just getting the glim is anyone's guess.

[spoiler]I mostly answered that indirectly it was the manager that hid it, since that was his intent, but directly, it was one of the sisters or the maid.[/spoiler]

As for my answer for who May is, I'll spell it out, since there seems to be a few good referential or punny ones besides mine, and I feel like I'll be proved wrong over the course of the year:

The Curt Relicker. He loved December.

Therefore if he was May, it would be a May-December Romance. 8D

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Indigo Clardmond - A kind-hearted Notary that is also a member of the C.V.R. And good friend to the Rubberies. And close to Hell. A gentleman of many talents. He is most definitely not secretly an imp of an existential nature. That would just be silly.

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DonaghyLogan
DonaghyLogan
Posts: 202

7/18/2017
Does the key in the well everyone here is talking about giving to the manager the same as the Stone-Tentacled Key one can find in said well?

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WinterIV
WinterIV
Posts: 65

7/18/2017
In regards to the Mystery: "What do the Fingerkings want?"

[spoiler]

I followed a Implacable Detective quest line and found this:

Green light flares in the mirror propped against the boathouse wall: a light you've seen before, perhaps? The Medium is singing, a breathy refrain that switches between English and Loamsprach, the language of the Clay Men. You can only catch phrases: 'We will exist! ' 'Clothed in jade and clothed in mud!' 'The king with a hundred hearts!' 'No flying thing, no thing that flies!' 'The garden gates, with faces locked...'


Curious as to what exactly this might mean. Very curious that they know loamsprach and mention the King with a Hundred Hearts.

Is this implying that they want to basically be able to make themselves bodies like the claymen do?

Does it mean they want to steal the King with a Hundred Hearts specifically? Perhaps possess him and thus all of his children?

Or, since we know he is basically just a small chunk of the mountain of light, does it mean they want Stone so they can create themselves bodies?

Or is all of this too complex and the answer is simply "We will exist"?


[/spoiler]
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Indigo Clardmond
Indigo Clardmond
Posts: 57

7/18/2017
DonaghyLogan wrote:
Does the key in the well everyone here is talking about giving to the manager the same as the Stone-Tentacled Key one can find in said well?



That's correct. You only ever interact with him involving it if you are pursuing the Heart's Desire Ambition. Otherwise I think the only other time it's brought up is in the Nemesis Ambition in the Iron Republic, the Devils there wanting it as a bargaining chip.

--
Indigo Clardmond - A kind-hearted Notary that is also a member of the C.V.R. And good friend to the Rubberies. And close to Hell. A gentleman of many talents. He is most definitely not secretly an imp of an existential nature. That would just be silly.

Vazio Solus - A broken, bitter Correspondent with a sick relationship to the Truth. Defiant to all, even in the end, as the Gate was opened.

The Luminous Orphan - A dazzling young Doctor of legendary charisma, weaving powerful Celestial imagery while she studies the form...'a star' would certainly be an appropriate way to describe her.
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3305

7/18/2017
dov wrote:

But if we have to go only based on available clues, we basically only know that May's book is about Love Stories.
Who is associated with Love Stories? Well, taking the Bazaar itself out of the equation, then who was the one who *told* us that "in the matters of the Bazaar, always look to love"?

<snip>

Maybe, but I'm not convinced. From the same story: "I write with words from the heart: if such a choice arises for you, reject the torment. Walk away. But I expect you will not."

Indigo Clardmond wrote:
As for my answer for who May is, I'll spell it out, since there seems to be a few good referential or punny ones besides mine, and I feel like I'll be proved wrong over the course of the year:

The Curt Relicker. He loved December.

Therefore if he was May, it would be a May-December Romance. 8D

As fantastically terrible as that pun is, I doubt that solution too. The Curt Relicker was kicked off the council for loving December and the question asks "who is May" rather than "who was May". I'm more inclined to say he was November as that book in the Agendums of Ascent is blank, meaning the position remains vacant.

WinterIV wrote:
In regards to the Mystery: "What do the Fingerkings want?"

[spoiler]

I followed a Implacable Detective quest line and found this:

Green light flares in the mirror propped against the boathouse wall: a light you've seen before, perhaps? The Medium is singing, a breathy refrain that switches between English and Loamsprach, the language of the Clay Men. You can only catch phrases: 'We will exist! ' 'Clothed in jade and clothed in mud!' 'The king with a hundred hearts!' 'No flying thing, no thing that flies!' 'The garden gates, with faces locked...'

Curious as to what exactly this might mean. Very curious that they know loamsprach and mention the King with a Hundred Hearts.

Is this implying that they want to basically be able to make themselves bodies like the claymen do?

Does it mean they want to steal the King with a Hundred Hearts specifically? Perhaps possess him and thus all of his children?

Or, since we know he is basically just a small chunk of the mountain of light, does it mean they want Stone so they can create themselves bodies?

Or is all of this too complex and the answer is simply "We will exist"? [/spoiler]

The answer is probably just that they want to exist. The rest of it is very interesting, though. Maybe there's some actual explanation why Touched with Fingerwork is used for both Parabola stuff and the Clay Men...

We know (from somewhere or other) that they're interested in Stone; apparently she has a huge dream taking up part of Parabola that the Fingerkings are obsessed with, but they can't touch it because she's half Judgement and they're Is-Not.

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Akernis
Akernis
Posts: 241

7/19/2017
Amélie Vaincœur wrote:

As for the architect of the Dawn Machine, I don't have a theory, but something like a hunch: December.

That is my guess as well. But only because...
[spoiler]
December's book in the Calendar Code story involves a lot of astrology and make it seem like he / she knows stars, aka Judgements, personally. And in one of the next rooms are a scale model of the Dawn Machine, which we know is a artificial Judgement.
[/spoiler]
Though that link is tenuous at best, and grasping at straws at worst.
.
edited by Akernis on 7/19/2017

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menaulon
menaulon
Posts: 94

7/19/2017
I think that manager is May. For proof, here is the echo about May from Calendar Code: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9197913
[spoiler] "old lovers separated by dark waters", "hearts turned to stone" – these, to me, are pretty direct allusions to Manager and King with a Hundred Hearts. [/spoiler]

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Indigo Clardmond
Indigo Clardmond
Posts: 57

7/19/2017
menaulon wrote:
I think that manager is May. For proof, here is the echo about May from Calendar Code: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9197913
[spoiler] "old lovers separated by dark waters", "hearts turned to stone" – these, to me, are pretty direct allusions to Manager and King with a Hundred Hearts. [/spoiler]


I'd agree with that except I'm still trying to figure out how the "hands touching for first time on carnival rides" and "intimacies stolen by doors that listen" apply to him. Granted, it could just be others that he collected.

But then, of course, that makes me suspect it's someone else, who just knows of the Manager's story amongst others.
edited by Indigo Clardmond on 7/19/2017

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Indigo Clardmond - A kind-hearted Notary that is also a member of the C.V.R. And good friend to the Rubberies. And close to Hell. A gentleman of many talents. He is most definitely not secretly an imp of an existential nature. That would just be silly.

Vazio Solus - A broken, bitter Correspondent with a sick relationship to the Truth. Defiant to all, even in the end, as the Gate was opened.

The Luminous Orphan - A dazzling young Doctor of legendary charisma, weaving powerful Celestial imagery while she studies the form...'a star' would certainly be an appropriate way to describe her.
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menaulon
menaulon
Posts: 94

7/19/2017
Indigo Clardmond wrote:


I'd agree with that except I'm still trying to figure out how the "hands touching for first time on carnival rides" and "intimacies stolen by doors that listen" apply to him. Granted, it could just be others that he collected.

But then, of course, that makes me suspect it's someone else, who just knows of the Manager's story amongst others.
edited by Indigo Clardmond on 7/19/2017

It might be him reminding himslef of the early moments they shared, before everything fell apart? I am still pretty confident because in the last election Manager was urging the Contrarian to step up his game: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9005324 . That means Manager is at least a sympathizer of "liberated London" and, with his pedigree, he definitely has enough ability to ascend to Calendar Council.


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    Indigo Clardmond
    Indigo Clardmond
    Posts: 57

    7/19/2017
    menaulon wrote:
    Indigo Clardmond wrote:


    I'd agree with that except I'm still trying to figure out how the &quothands touching for first time on carnival rides&quot and &quotintimacies stolen by doors that listen&quot apply to him. Granted, it could just be others that he collected.

    But then, of course, that makes me suspect it's someone else, who just knows of the Manager's story amongst others.
    edited by Indigo Clardmond on 7/19/2017

    It might be him reminding himslef of the early moments they shared, before everything fell apart? I am still pretty confident because in the last election Manager was urging the Contrarian to step up his game: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9005324 . That means Manager is at least a sympathizer of &quotliberated London&quot and, with his pedigree, he definitely has enough ability to ascend to Calendar Council.


  • That's certainly compelling evidence for a connection, but it's unclear exactly what he's arguing with the Contrarian about.

    Also, did they have carnivals in Uruk? That touching for "the first time" on a carnival ride is what's throwing me if your theory is correct.

    --
    Indigo Clardmond - A kind-hearted Notary that is also a member of the C.V.R. And good friend to the Rubberies. And close to Hell. A gentleman of many talents. He is most definitely not secretly an imp of an existential nature. That would just be silly.

    Vazio Solus - A broken, bitter Correspondent with a sick relationship to the Truth. Defiant to all, even in the end, as the Gate was opened.

    The Luminous Orphan - A dazzling young Doctor of legendary charisma, weaving powerful Celestial imagery while she studies the form...'a star' would certainly be an appropriate way to describe her.
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    Hark DeGaul
    Hark DeGaul
    Posts: 208

    7/19/2017
    Could the Architect of the Dawn Machine be:
    [spoiler] April, Emelia Hathersage, from the Bag a Legend Ambition. She's certainly an expert with explosives and engineering and Cotterel and Hathersage makes naval equipment. I don't remember if her book in Calendar Code is in the Dawn Machine room but if it is I think that would strengthen this case. [/spoiler]

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    menaulon
    menaulon
    Posts: 94

    7/19/2017
    Indigo Clardmond wrote:
  • That's certainly compelling evidence for a connection, but it's unclear exactly what he's arguing with the Contrarian about.

    Also, did they have carnivals in Uruk? That touching for "the first time" on a carnival ride is what's throwing me if your theory is correct.

  • Contrarian represents a more moderate approach to Revolution and has doubts about Liberation, even rejecting help from its supporters: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9000068 . Manager disagrees and says that "between this and the Bazaar, there is no third way". In conjunction to the previous point, "this" has to be something in opposition to the Bazaar and more radical than, well, not Liberation, considering that's one of the only things Contrarian really stands for. For me, that makes Liberation the most likely option.
  • Hark DeGaul,
  • [spoiler] April's book is about her making a Correspondence cannon: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9197899 . That is advanced, but far below creating the Dawn Machine. I am not saying it's impossible for April to be the architect, but I am not sure we have enough information to confirm it. That said, I hope this is one of the questions we will get more information about next year. [/spoiler]


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    Menaulon
    Open to social actions, but would prefer to be betrayed in the search for Photographer.
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    Hark DeGaul
    Hark DeGaul
    Posts: 208

    7/19/2017
    menaulon wrote:
    [spoiler] April's book is about her making a Correspondence cannon: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menaulon?fromEchoId=9197899 . That is advanced, but far below creating the Dawn Machine. I am not saying it's impossible for April to be the architect, but I am not sure we have enough information to confirm it. That said, I hope this is one of the questions we will get more information about next year. [/spoiler]

    Granted the evidence is highly debatable, but I also find the idea it's December based on a book containing astronomy difficult to swallow. Now may be a good time for me to finally have a chat with my wry friend at the palace and see if I can pick up anything.

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    A Dimness
    A Dimness
    Posts: 613

    7/19/2017
    As for the What happened in the last February of sunlight? question, I think it can be interpreted in various ways.
    At first, I thought it might've referred to the time when London was still on the surface, in which case the answer'd be "London Fell", though I can't remember exactly if London actually fell on a February. It also seems unlikely that the last question would have so simple an answer.
    But then I started thinking, what if the "last February of sunlight" refers to the actual end of sunlight? In this case, the answer would, terrifyingly, be "The Liberation of Night".

    What irks me though, is that the Liberation of Night isn't strictly canonical. And the word "Sunlight" is specifically used, not "Starlight", so possibly the sun dies. While the LoN isn't canonical, Sunless Skies certainly is. So maybe the answer is, "The Traitor Empress leads an exodus to the High Wilderness." assuming that she does so in February, and also assuming that the Sun -if not all Judgments- is killed before the next February after the exodus.

    A last possibility: the last February of sunlight is actually the last Calendar-Council February, not the last month February, in which case the answer would still be "The Liberation of Night", so I'm unsure.
    edited by Infinity Simulacrum on 7/19/2017

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    Sir Frederick
    Sir Frederick
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    Posts: 3271

    7/19/2017
    Infinity Simulacrum wrote:
    At first, I thought it might've referred to the time when London was still on the surface, in which case the answer'd be "London Fell", though I can't remember exactly if London actually fell on a February.


    It did. Week ending Valentine's Day, 1862.

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