Powered by Jitbit .Net Forum free trial version.

HomeFallen London » Off topic: The Surface

Discuss topics unrelated to our games here - as ever, be courteous and have fun!

Alexis Kennedy's Cultist Simulator Messages in this topic - RSS

Clifton Royston
Clifton Royston
Posts: 77

9/11/2017
Great exploration of possibilities, Anne!

BTW, given its presence (though tenuous) in the non-graphic prototype and given that AK has mentioned it several times, I think you can add to the list of random factors the possibility of "Romantic Attention" and romantic affairs, probably conflicting with the goal of gaining occult power.

Two other potential random factors from the non-graphic prototype were Explore options which let you browse flea markets for potentially magic items like a Cinnabar Amulet - I won't be surprised if that returns in the full game - and the possibility of randomly discovering a Tattered Map, which would allow you to send your followers on expeditions to discover more powerful items. Those could easily play an expanded role.

--
A person of little significance:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cliftonr

Currently accepting all non-harmful social actions, at least until I learn better.
+1 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1721

9/12/2017
More details on Cultist Simulator features and gameplay: combat, exploration, and the legacy system. Perhaps the biggest takeaway is that when the Kickstarter ends, Alexis is planning to look at ways he can make the game more narratively and visually interesting with the additional funding he has received.

**********************************************************************************************

Alexis Kennedy, Blood, Roads, Memory

A backer messaged me with a bunch of good questions, so I thought I’d share the answers more widely.

“Will there be direct combat (or at least as direct one can be against eldritch antediluvian evil)? If not weapons against enemy cultists and authorities, perhaps rituals and rites to battle and defend against horrors?”

Not combat combat, not hit rolls and damage points, but there is opposition, yes. In the prototype, it’s really simple – you can suffer a Malady which will chew up your health, or you can be under investigation by the Suppression Bureau, which will end the game unless you can divert it with bribes or scapegoats. In the finished version, these will be slightly livelier antagonists, like Investigators and Detectives and Hauntings, or your own problems, like Appetites and Nightmares. The key thing is that this runs at war-of-occultists speed, not action-movie speed. You’ll need to lay your plans – or conduct your protective rites – and wait for them to take effect.


“How expansive will the world of Cultist Sim be in terms of locations and exploration? More of a “stay around town, discover its dark secrets” or will we be going off to explore distant ancient ruins and hamlets to summon entities and gather knowledge? I guess, will it be more Fallen London or more 80 Days?”

It’s more Fallen London than 80 Days; you are conducting operations from your study. But there will be distant locations. Whether you go there in person or not is still something I’m considering.

At the moment, the plan is that you dispatch followers to find locations (the Tomb of the Amethyst Imago, or the Wreck of the Christabel, e.g.) and break into them, and they bring you back stuff. In the prototype, you do this with Strathcoyne’s Library, and it’s very simple, but ultimately I want multi-stage situations with varying outcomes. You’ll need maps or clues to find the things; you might try multiple approaches to solve obstacles; you might have to deal with the ramifications, like curses or vengeful rivals.

But one of the ideas I was turning over – which has just become much more likely now that we’re better-funded – is that your office moves. It’s always exciting in something like Elder Sign: Omens to see the board change. So if you travelled to Rome or Cairo, the scenery might change, along with the local rules. I’ve also considered making your starting city one of the variant start conditions that come with different legacy options. All this is speculative at the moment! After September, I’ll sit down and plan the final scope. But it is one of the ideas I like more.


“How in depth will the legacy system be? Basically like Sunless Seas, or more complex? Sins of the father tend to be a common theme in gothic and lovecraftian horror…”

More complex. It’s the first major feature on my list once the KS is complete, because I want to start playtesting it with that in place – it will change the rhythm of the game quite considerably (for the better, I think). I expect there to be a low-double-digits total number of legacy choices, of which the player usually sees three at any given time. The structure of CS lends itself more naturally to a more elaborate and extensible legacy system than Sunless Sea. A legacy just provides some flavour and gives you some different starting cards (including ones which may make your life difficult) – there isn’t a chart to hide or stats to tweak. But one of the things I’d like to keep from SS, if I can, is to allow players to inherit a single specific thing, like a book or a tool, so you can pass your journal down through the notional generations.

.
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/12/2017

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

Happy Hallowmas! Please share your Feducci interactions!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25298-share-your-feducci-interactions.aspx?MessageID=207908#post207908
+5 link
Clifton Royston
Clifton Royston
Posts: 77

9/14/2017
I am so impatient to hear more about the witches and Fucine and hopefully the Geminiad. I am restraining myself with difficulty from whining in the Kickstarter comments. I wonder if there will be other ancient and secret languages we need to learn and use too.

--
A person of little significance:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cliftonr

Currently accepting all non-harmful social actions, at least until I learn better.
0 link
menaulon
menaulon
Posts: 76

9/15/2017
The Fucine is out - http://weatherfactory.biz/fucine-was-spoken-in-the-dry-country-it-is-the-language-of-witches/ . The witches seem more like manifestations of an Hour than actual witches. The Hours are once again in opposition.

--
Menaulon
Open to social actions, but would prefer to be betrayed in the search for Photographer.
+2 link
illuminati swag (Benthic)
illuminati swag (Benthic)
Posts: 51

9/15/2017
menaulon wrote:
The Fucine is out - http://weatherfactory.biz/fucine-was-spoken-in-the-dry-country-it-is-the-language-of-witches/ . The witches seem more like manifestations of an Hour than actual witches. The Hours are once again in opposition.

Given that they are witches, and the references to "multiple births", "blend[ing] flesh to flesh", "two heads and four arms", and a strange "companion", it's clear that they are in some way related to the Witch-and-Sister. Possibly they're emanations of the Witch-and-Sister, and therefore Names, or perhaps only one Name which, being an occult being beyond our comprehension, is not bound to being a single entity. They seem to be making people conjoined, or maybe causing them to have sex which results in the births of conjoined twins, or maybe both. There's a strong association of them and the Witch-and-Sister with sexuality ("blend flesh to flesh", "follies of passion", etc), which explains why the priest of the church of St. Agnes, patron saint of chastity, rejected someone who had "kissed the Twins". Also, it's called "St. Agnes of the Serpent", which is interesting because I can't find any association with serpents with any St. Agnes.

Also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucine_Lake

The lake was drained completely in 1877, which means this bit was presumably written before then, especially as Strathcoyne didn't have the Geminiad yet.
edited by Benthic on 9/15/2017
+1 link
Vavakx Nonexus
Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 806

9/15/2017
Benthic wrote:
menaulon wrote:
The Fucine is out - http://weatherfactory.biz/fucine-was-spoken-in-the-dry-country-it-is-the-language-of-witches/ . The witches seem more like manifestations of an Hour than actual witches. The Hours are once again in opposition.

Given that they are witches, and the references to "multiple births", "blend[ing] flesh to flesh", "two heads and four arms", and a strange "companion", it's clear that they are in some way related to the Witch-and-Sister. Possibly they're emanations of the Witch-and-Sister, and therefore Names, or perhaps only one Name which, being an occult being beyond our comprehension, is not bound to being a single entity. They seem to be making people conjoined, or maybe causing them to have sex which results in the births of conjoined twins, or maybe both. There's a strong association of them and the Witch-and-Sister with sexuality ("blend flesh to flesh", "follies of passion", etc), which explains why the priest of the church of St. Agnes, patron saint of chastity, rejected someone who had "kissed the Twins". Also, it's called "St. Agnes of the Serpent", which is interesting because I can't find any association with serpents with any St. Agnes.

Also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucine_Lake

The lake was drained completely in 1877, which means this bit was presumably written before then, especially as Strathcoyne didn't have the Geminiad yet.
edited by Benthic on 9/15/2017

The whole text is stated to be from a book published in 1815 in the beginning.
Alexis wrote:
Addendum excised from Sir William Colt Hoare’s Hints to Travellers in Italy, 1815.


--
Amets: The Queen, the King and the Pawn. Banded in red and black and gold.


Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness.


Charlotte and the Caretaker: A duality of character making their collective lives in the city below. One may call them a family, even.
0 link
menaulon
menaulon
Posts: 76

9/15/2017
Benthic wrote:

Given that they are witches, and the references to "multiple births", "blend[ing] flesh to flesh", "two heads and four arms", and a strange "companion", it's clear that they are in some way related to the Witch-and-Sister. Possibly they're emanations of the Witch-and-Sister, and therefore Names, or perhaps only one Name which, being an occult being beyond our comprehension, is not bound to being a single entity. They seem to be making people conjoined, or maybe causing them to have sex which results in the births of conjoined twins, or maybe both. There's a strong association of them and the Witch-and-Sister with sexuality ("blend flesh to flesh", "follies of passion", etc), which explains why the priest of the church of St. Agnes, patron saint of chastity, rejected someone who had "kissed the Twins". Also, it's called "St. Agnes of the Serpent", which is interesting because I can't find any association with serpents with any St. Agnes.

edited by Benthic on 9/15/2017

Witch-and-Sister does seem like an obvious answer. St. Agnes also seems like it's Hour or Hour-adjacent, given the priest's actions.

Weather Factory wrote:
Still when I came there the priest would not bind my injury, averring that wounds are holy to Agnes. He promised to draw the poison from my flesh and I sat upon the altar steps and he set his mouth to the wound


Is it perhaps connected to the Grail, that devours and is devoured?

--
Menaulon
Open to social actions, but would prefer to be betrayed in the search for Photographer.
+2 link
Vavakx Nonexus
Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 806

9/15/2017
For those who can parse John Keats, I suggest reading the Eve of St. Agnes. It's referenced by the church of St Agnes and the serpent in the kickstarter lore post, and the whole poem is filled with the moonlight-and-witchcraft aesthetic of the Witch-and-Sister.

Even if it doesn't count as actual lore, it is still a source of inspiration for the Hour, and I'd like to think that Alexis wouldn't throw a reference like that in willy-nilly, especially for a game a game like Cultist Simulator.
Reading it (or trying to read it) also prompted me to dig around some more, so here's some bullet-fire information from a late evening's digging around (read: Mostly notes for myself in the future and other noble souls in regards to extra reading material):

1) Locksmith's Dream (1923 edition) wrote:
Galmier actually lived in Camden for a couple of years, after the court case, tutoring undergraduates in Italian and writing furious letters to the local paper.
'The court case' presumably refers to the Camden Town Murder of 1907, which would put Teresa's stay in Camden ~15 years before the start of her career as an occult writer! Not significant in learning the cosmology, but it's nice to know more about the life of one of the most important characters of the setting.

2) While there's no William Colt Hoare, there is a Richard Colt Hoare who wrote a Hints to Travellers in Italy. A sign of interference from the Long? Probably worth at least skimming the actual work for context.

3) Robert Fludd apparently had an interest in the writings of natural magicians and, more importantly for us, in numerology. His theories on the microcosm/macrocosm also seem relevant to the Glory, which is described as a Sun in the game.

P.S. Contrast
"Fludd concluded, from a reading of Psalm 19:4—"In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun"—that the Spirit of the Lord was contained literally within the sun, placing it central to Fludd’s model of the macrocosm. [...] As the sun was to the earth, so was the heart to mankind. The sun conveyed Spirit to the earth through its rays, which circulated in and about the earth giving it life."
from wikipedia's summary with
"Life is pure flame, and we live by an invisible sun within us."
used to describe the Lantern principle in the Alpha.

4) Cultist Simulator wrote:
Life is pure flame, and we live by an invisible sun within us.
Thomas Browne, or, more specifically, his Hydriotaphia, is the source for the quote used on the Lantern principle. Another piece of work to check out at some point.
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 9/17/2017

--
Amets: The Queen, the King and the Pawn. Banded in red and black and gold.


Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness.


Charlotte and the Caretaker: A duality of character making their collective lives in the city below. One may call them a family, even.
+2 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1721

9/15/2017
Benthic wrote:
Given that they are witches, and the references to "multiple births", "blend[ing] flesh to flesh", "two heads and four arms", and a strange "companion", it's clear that they are in some way related to the Witch-and-Sister. Possibly they're emanations of the Witch-and-Sister, and therefore Names, or perhaps only one Name which, being an occult being beyond our comprehension, is not bound to being a single entity.

I think it's a little bit more complicated. Some of the witches seem to be spirits, but good Sir William does meet two mortals, probably women, who seem rather witch-like:

Sir William Colt Hoare Addendum wrote:
My informant was correct that the script was unusual, and I have retained the notes for study; but I can attest that the script survives in a book, which a woman of the area was kind enough to show me. The book, she said, was not for sale, and I have given my word that I will not speak further of the woman or of her companion. I was permitted to examine the book. It is not from the time of the Marruvii – it is much later – perhaps of the vintage of Charlemagne. The woman and her companion told me wild tales of its origin, and of the witches of the lake, and I had ceased to pay close attention when they warned me of the dangers of the book.

Companion is in italics in the original and no other details are given, as he promised to be discrete. So, the companion could be a male partner (unlikely but not impossible), a female companion, a twin, or...a conjoined twin. So the Witch-and-Sister is an Hour, they have some sort of spirit presence in the lake, and they have imitative followers or even mortal incarnations. It's levels upon levels.
.
menaulon wrote:
St. Agnes also seems like it's Hour or Hour-adjacent, given the priest's actions.

Weather Factory wrote:
Still when I came there the priest would not bind my injury, averring that wounds are holy to Agnes. He promised to draw the poison from my flesh and I sat upon the altar steps and he set his mouth to the wound

Is it perhaps connected to the Grail, that devours and is devoured?

Wounds are sacred to the Mother of Ants, while blood and appetite are sacred to the Grail. It's not surprising that an Hour or two would piggyback on a Catholic Saint. The Sun-in-Rags had a mortal incarnation in the Emperor Elagabulus...though it doesn't seem to have gone very well for anyone involved. Not only did the priest of the Unconquerable Sun fail to conquer, he was also denied the beautiful ending that the Sun-in-Rags desires so very much...

The Story of Civilization III: Caesar and Christ, by Will & Ariel Durant, published 1944; Chapter XXIX: The Collapse of the Empire; Part I: A Semitic Dynasty; page 624 wrote:

Lampridius assures us that Elagabalus never spent less than 100,000 sesterces - and sometimes 3,000,000 - on a banquet to his friends. He would mix gold pieces with peas, onyx with lentils, pearls with rice, amber with beans; he would present horses, or chariots, or eunuchs, as favors; often he bade each guest take home the silver plate and goblets in which the dinner had been served. As for himself, he would have nothing but the best. The water in his swimming pools was perfumed with essence of roses; the fixtures in his bathrooms were of onyx or gold; his food had to be of costly rarities; his dress was studded with jewelry from crown to shoes; and gossip said that he never wore the same rings twice. When he traveled, 600 chariots were needed to carry his baggage and his bawds. Told by a soothsayer that he would die a violent death, he prepared worthy means of suicide if occasion required: cords of purple silk, swords of gold, poisons enclosed in sapphires or emeralds. He was slain in a latrine.

That's what we call epic fail. Elagabalus does live it up though, doesn't he? Almost as if deep down he were a ragged fellow who had just been given his first taste of real luxury.

Come to think of it, two other Roman Emperors who were inordinately fond of the Sun, Aurelian and Julian the Apostate, also came to fairly violent ends.

Vavakx Nonexus wrote:
The court case' presumably refers to the Camden Town Murder of 1907, which would put Teresa's stay in Camden ~15 years before the start of her career as an occult writer! Not significant in learning the cosmology, but it's nice to know more about the life of one of the most important characters of the setting.

I'm pretty sure "the court case" refers to the suppression of Galmier's own writings by the Authorities at the behest of the Long.
.
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/16/2017

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

Happy Hallowmas! Please share your Feducci interactions!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25298-share-your-feducci-interactions.aspx?MessageID=207908#post207908
0 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1721

9/16/2017
New prototype game art by Martin Nerurkar, with inscriptions by Alexis.


NONE SHALL REMAIN



THERE IS A LIGHT



THE GRAIL DEVOURS, THE GRAIL IS DEVOURED

I especially like the one with the hand.
.
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/16/2017

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

Happy Hallowmas! Please share your Feducci interactions!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25298-share-your-feducci-interactions.aspx?MessageID=207908#post207908
0 link
JoelMB12
JoelMB12
Posts: 10

9/16/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
Shalinoth wrote:
But the artwork and music has such great ambience it seems a shame to 'waste' it on icon sized cards.

Don't sneeze at the aesthetic power of icons - Medieval Christianity had a number of nasty schisms over iconic art.


edited by Anne Auclair on 8/27/2017



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis_(Eastern_Christian_theology) interesting use that because it goes into a similar mechanic in the game since the game definitely implies at least the kick starter that you can become a Hour. It's interesting to use the symbolism of the merging of gods essence of the man in the process of that vs with game Lore taking the dark step of become some much more at cost of your humanity. You see the steps from Us,Know, Long, Name, and Hour.
+2 link
Clifton Royston
Clifton Royston
Posts: 77

9/16/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
Wounds are sacred to the Mother of Ants, while blood and appetite are sacred to the Grail. It's not surprising that an Hour or two would piggyback on a Catholic Saint. The Sun-in-Rags had a mortal incarnation in the Emperor Elagabulus...though it doesn't seem to have gone very well for anyone involved. Not only did the priest of the Unconquerable Sun fail to conquer, he was also denied the beautiful ending that the Sun-in-Rags desires so very much...

The Story of Civilization III: Caesar and Christ, by Will & Ariel Durant, published 1944; Chapter XXIX: The Collapse of the Empire; Part I: A Semitic Dynasty; page 624 wrote:

... Told by a soothsayer that he would die a violent death, he prepared worthy means of suicide if occasion required: cords of purple silk, swords of gold, poisons enclosed in sapphires or emeralds. He was slain in a latrine.

That's what we call epic fail. Elagabalus does live it up though, doesn't he? Almost as if deep down he were a ragged fellow who had just been given his first taste of real luxury.
...
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/16/2017



I think that could be regarded as a most poetic and beautiful ending - what a dramatic contrast! Perhaps that's exactly what the Sun-In-Rags had in mind for him all along. That is after all the main problem humans have with Gods. as with oracles - you can't expect the view of things from the eternal perspective to coincide with your own set of priorities.


In the Tao Te Ching, Lao Zi wrote:
Heaven and Earth are ruthless: they regard all things as straw dogs.


The Hours too are ruthless, like the hours.

--
A person of little significance:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cliftonr

Currently accepting all non-harmful social actions, at least until I learn better.
+1 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1721

9/16/2017
I suppose this leads us into the question of what is a Beautiful Ending, at least as far as the Sun-in-Rags is concerned (as it is the god of beautiful endings, its definition is final no matter how expansive, capricious or arbitrary). Elagabulus seemed to believe a beautiful ending was something sensually and aesthetically pleasing, a natural progression from his sensually and aesthetically pleasing life. I'm inclined to give him a certain benefit of the doubt, because he was a mortal incarnation and a Know, so he knew things. Elagabulus was very clearly trying to mimic the Sun: a beautiful rise, a beautiful journey across the sky, and a beautiful sunset. But you're right, the Sun-in-Rags could (and probably would) appreciate or prefer more theatrical forms of beauty, with violent reversals of expectations and dramatic irony. Or maybe the game was rigged for poor Elagabulus no matter what - as a mortal incarnation, regardless of how he died, his death would be beautiful to the Sun by some definition (triumphant, sensual, ironic). Poor Elagabulus was not wrong, his knowledge was just incomplete (he also still epically failed to die how he wanted to though :P).

A love for poetic irony might explain why the two other emperors who put their faith in the Sun, Aurelian and Julian, died so ignominiously, with brilliant reigns full of promise suddenly cut short. Let's compare: Elagabulus suddenly rose to power, tried to live pleasure to its utmost, and was killed after roughly a four year reign. Aurelian suddenly rose to power, reunified the Roman world, and was killed after roughly a five year reign. Julian suddenly rose to power, restored Paganism, and was killed after a roughly two/three year reign. Constantine was also fond of the Sun, before he became a Christian and undertook the destruction of Paganism - though the significance of that can only be guessed at (maybe he just realized the Sun was unreliable, or maybe in helping bring the world of antiquity to an end he was acting as intended).
.
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/16/2017

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

Happy Hallowmas! Please share your Feducci interactions!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25298-share-your-feducci-interactions.aspx?MessageID=207908#post207908
+2 link
Edward Warren
Edward Warren
Posts: 50

9/16/2017
The release was definitely mainly about the Witch-and-Sister. We got some interesting details about her/their/it's MO and influence.
  • The Witch-and-Sister is the patron of witches and witchcraft. Whether this is their sole function or if the witches are a byproduct of their machinations is unknown.
  • We learn another way to at least exit the Mansus, used by at least Witch-and-Sister. Broken mirrors and moonlight let the witches into people's dreams. A full moon on Lake Fucino allow the witches to physically exit the Mansus and terrorize the countryside. Whether the witches are mortal followers of the Hour, or if they're mortal incarnations of it is unknown.
  • The Geminiad is, predictably, the book of Witch-and-Sister.
  • Directly interacting with the artifact, and/or the followers of an Hour might allow it to influence one's dreams to some extent. Perhaps the degree of knowledge one possesses about the occult plays a role? Is this is why Galmier needed to craft wards before she could think about her contact?

What's also interesting is that this update is supposed to contain a second Hour, but none is referenced by name. The closest we get is repeated reference to the church of "St Agnes of the Serpent". While there is certainly something unnatural going on at the church, it doesn't seem to be overly occult. I believe this might have to do with the Christianization of local culture.


Christianity often incorporated figures and customs of locals into their own tradition in order to ease them into conversion. For example, the pagan goddess Brigid is believed to have been incorporated into Christianity as Saint Brigid. If one of the local cults was also assimilated in such a fashion, then whatever "Saint of the Serpent" the local Christians are calling upon is likely an Hour whose true name and nature has been forgotten. Whatever power is at work there seems to at least offer protection from the Witch-and-Sister, but I doubt it's doing so out of benevolence as much as it's out of opposition of a rival Hour. In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next Hours to be introduced has something to do with snakes.

--
Fair Play, Fair Game
+1 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1721

9/17/2017
Some quick thoughts on various topics.

First, while visiting Port Noon, Galmier rents a room at the Hotel Ciervo on Mendicant Street. Ciervo is Spanish for deer or stag, while a mendicant is someone "who lives by begging." Often mendicant word describes a type of religious beggar (say a wandering monk, dervish or Franciscan friar). So Galmier is staying in the Stag Hotel on Beggar Street. This offers both a portrait of the types of people who visit Port Noon (the Know) and what the retired Long think of them (not much). The Know, in their proper place according to the Long, essentially live by begging things from those who are more powerful than them (Long, Names, Hours...). As it happens Galmier is in Port Noon to "put [a] proposition" to one of them, so she is certainly playing her assigned role.

Second, about a week ago, I asked Alexis the following:

Who are the Hours who oversee, or created, or emanated, or have domain over, or responsibility for, coffee?

Yes, I got the opportunity to ask one lore question, and I asked about coffee, because of course I did. Anyway, his response was: "And the answer to the question has to be the Thunderskin. smile"

So the Thunderskin is responsible for my espresso? All hail the crazy dancing heart god!

Lastly, although I refer to the Sun-in-Rags as the Sun when talking about the Roman Sun cult, I'm pretty sure the Sun-in-Rags isn't related to the actual physical Sun, nor the metaphysical Sun who owns the Mansus ('the Mansus is the House of the Sun'). That Sun, the true Sun, the source of Light, the master of the Mansus, is probably the Glory. The Sun-in-Rags, which presents itself or masquerades to mortals in the forms of various sun gods, is really a sort of a diminutive, impoverished progeny of light and blood. One of his portrayals shows him covered in rags (which brings to mind a wandering actor in poor motley), another portrayal shows him bleeding from cracks (which brings to mind a wandering actor with a cracked mask). Both show him surrounded by snow and skulls. He's not a real sun, his light is cold, but he's good at playing on mortals image of the sun: Sol Invictus, Mithras, Hercules, Apollo, Helios, and getting them to act out the dramas he has written for them. That's at least what I suspect anyway.

Clifton Royston wrote:
We got some hints about this in the first gray-box prototype which didn't carry over into the second. In short, it appears that the Long may have the collective power to change and rewrite the past - not just change what's in print about it, but change the actual history.

I think only the Hours have that power, as its their consensus and conflicts that determine the content of the Histories ("The history we know arises from the struggles of the secret gods called the Hours" / "The Histories diverge much more recently than 1927, and it’s not surprising that a minor urban centre would be out of luck in the Hours’ consensus"). The Long have access to this power though through their relationships with the Names and Hours. Imagine a powerful courtier who is on the margins of a royal court. Said courtier might be able to leverage his connections with the dominant faction of the inner court to have one of his enemies condemned and executed, one of his protects sponsored, or one of his friends rewarded. In return for this patronage, the courtier and his friends would provide various sorts of support to their superiors. In other words, a sort of supernatural clientelism.

Edward Warren wrote:
What's also interesting is that this update is supposed to contain a second Hour, but none is referenced by name. The closest we get is repeated reference to the church of "St Agnes of the Serpent". While there is certainly something unnatural going on at the church, it doesn't seem to be overly occult. I believe this might have to do with the Christianization of local culture. If one of the local cults was also assimilated in such a fashion, then whatever "Saint of the Serpent" the local Christians are calling upon is likely an Hour whose true name and nature has been forgotten. Whatever power is at work there seems to at least offer protection from the Witch-and-Sister, but I doubt it's doing so out of benevolence as much as it's out of opposition of a rival Hour. In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the next Hours to be introduced has something to do with snakes.

The unnamed Hour is definitely the Mother of Ants. Wounds being sacred to St Agnes is a total giveaway. Though I wonder why the Mother of Ants or Agnes has issues with the Twins when the Geminiad's pages are so sharp that they can easily cause life threatening wounds...you'd think the two would be friends. Also, no idea what the snake thing is about. Saint Agnes probably has a precarious relationship with the overall Church as Alexis refers to her as a "contraband saint," which makes her sound like something that sort of snuck or slithered into Marruvium when no one was watching.
.
edited by Anne Auclair on 9/17/2017

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

Happy Hallowmas! Please share your Feducci interactions!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25298-share-your-feducci-interactions.aspx?MessageID=207908#post207908
+3 link
Clifton Royston
Clifton Royston
Posts: 77

9/17/2017
I think there's also a good argument that the opposing hour is the Red Grail. With the priest fastening on the wound to drink the blood, it had seemed totally obvious to me that the Red Grail was involved, until I saw your argument that it's the Mother of Ants. Now I'm not sure which to think.

--
A person of little significance:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cliftonr

Currently accepting all non-harmful social actions, at least until I learn better.
+2 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1721

9/17/2017
The blood might be a clue that the Red Grail is also involved (hey, can't have wounds without blood!). Or it might be an unintentional red herring and the priest is just cleaning the wound with a common erroneous folk remedy. But Saint Agnes of the Serpent having a thing for wounds is a pretty definitive sign that the Church and priest have some sort of relationship with the Mother of Ants. When you get an injury in the alpha, the Injury card explicitly states that wounds are sacred to the Mother of Ants: I need rest and nourishment, if I am to recover. But the Mother of Ants looks kindly on wounds.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair

Happy Hallowmas! Please share your Feducci interactions!

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25298-share-your-feducci-interactions.aspx?MessageID=207908#post207908
+1 link
Vexpont
Vexpont
Posts: 103

9/17/2017
Clifton Royston wrote:
I think there's also a good argument that the opposing hour is the Red Grail. With the priest fastening on the wound to drink the blood, it had seemed totally obvious to me that the Red Grail was involved, until I saw your argument that it's the Mother of Ants. Now I'm not sure which to think.

We can work out who ‘St. Agnes of the Serpent’ is, mythologically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angitia

wikipedia wrote:
Her myths vary. According to Gnaeus Gellius (late 2nd century BC), Angitia was one of the three daughters of Aeëtes, along with Medea and Circe, two of the most famed sorceresses of Greek myth. Circe, as widely known from the Odyssey, practiced transforming spells; Medea ended up in Italy, where her son ruled over the Marsi. Angitia lived in the area around the Fucine lake and specialized in curing snake bites.

It also says that some Classical authors identify Angitia directly with Medea, sorceress supreme, and it’s common for mythological figures to sprout siblings that are basically a single aspect of themselves – in this case, joining/healing.

But in that case, why would the priest be so horrorstruck by contact with ‘the Twins’? So perhaps Agnes is a related but opposing force to the Witch-and-Sister (and a small treat for mythology nerds).

Known Hours yet to de described in detail:

XXVII. The Crowned Growth
XXII. The Forge of Days.
XVII. The Red Grail.
XII. The Beachcrow.
IX. The Cartographer of Scars.
V. The Mother of Ants.
III. The Ring-Yew.
II. The Black-Flax.

If CS is a real myth mash-up in the style of Hunters Keep, there are very famous health deities associated with snakes (in numerous cultures, even), notably Asclepius and his daughter Hygieia. Hygieia’s symbol is a snake twined round a cup.

I’m going to go out on a mangled limb, theorise wildly, say that one opposing Hour to The Witch-and-Sister is The Red Grail (and that to no-one's surprise, healing/life force deities aren't very benign in CS)...

...and probably be completely wrong.

Also, 'Addendum excised from Sir William Colt Hoare’s Hints to Travellers in Italy, 1815' is a pretty sweet MR James pastiche, complete with epiphany in ghastly italics, and there can hardly be too many of those.
edited by Vexpont on 9/17/2017

--
Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
+1 link
Gonen
Gonen
Posts: 796

9/17/2017
Vexpont wrote:


XII. The Beachcrow.


That would be the Sun-in-Rags...

--
The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.

The long journey to eccentricity:
# of quirks at level 15: 5
# of quirks at level 12-14: 4
# of quirks at level 10: 1
# of quirks below level 10: 0
0 link
Vexpont
Vexpont
Posts: 103

9/17/2017
Gonen wrote:
Vexpont wrote:

XII. The Beachcrow.

That would be the Sun-in-Rags...

Yep, sorry.

I doubt there's a clue to an Hour that hasn't been mentioned even in passing, which is why I copied Anne's list -- but I forgot you'd spotted that numbering blip before. Which presumably means that the Beachcrow's number isn't known yet?

Also possibly of tangential interest: the real-life snaketastic festival of St. Dominic, gallantly standing in for Angitia because otherwise all this unapologetic serpent-worship would be even more dubiously Christian than it is at present.

--
Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
+1 link




Powered by Jitbit Forum 8.0.2.0 © 2006-2013 Jitbit Software