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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1625

7/19/2016
What we just experienced was the bare bones of the Election festival to come, the most essential elements. Just as the Feast of the Exceptional Rose started out in a very Spartan fashion and grew into the extravaganza it is now, so will the Mayoral Elections of the future! In the spirit of progress I would like to suggest the following features for future consideration.


1. A None of the Above Career Option

Over the course of the election some players (not me!) became very disenchanted with their options and expressed the opinion that none of the candidates were worthy of their support. However, there was no mechanical option allowing them to act on these sentiments, forcing them to either do gamey things like intentionally tank their support by repeated switching or try to profit from the election through bribes (more on this below). Then there are players who would rather focus on profiting than campaigning.

I think an easy way to resolving this would be to add a fourth career option: The Cynic. A cynic is someone who observes and tries to profit from the election, but does not support any of the candidates. If you become a cynic you lose whatever career ranks you possessed and lose your candidate support quality. As a cynic you can't advance your career at all because you aren't working to get out the vote (you're a party of one who has decided to be a nullity). Also, no after-election reward for you, as you didn't earn one, and the game will not record that you "participated in the election," because you didn't actually participate, you dirty cynic. Participation and rewards are for those who worked to make a difference!



2. A Bribery Mechanic
As mentioned above, some of the frustrated players decided to try selling their votes on the forum. I'm not sure whether or not they succeeded, but their creativity is to be applauded. Vote buying was a big part of 19th and early to mid 20th century elections (for example, in Boss Hague's Jersey City the going rate was five dollars a vote - his organization lost when, among other things, a rebel group splurged on fifteen dollars a vote). More importantly, mercenary campaign staff,and tricksters are a ubiquitous feature of democracy. So I think the player should have the option of bribing other players to support this or that candidate through a social action.

This shouldn't be cheap though. You're not just bribing a single voter. You're bribing someone who is getting out the vote and, presumably, getting some of these voters to switch sides with him, and each player can have up to 34 voters attached to them at any point. I think the item required for this should be the comprehensive bribe. First, it's a comprehensive bribe, something that "would tempt a judge. Even an honest one." so it's the perfect item to use. Second, there aren't all that many uses for a comprehensive bribes right now and most of those are non-repeatable story options.

This is how I picture it working. Player A will attempt to influence Player B to support Candidate Y by sending Player B an X number of comprehensive bribes. If Player B accepts the bribes he will earn a large number of echoes, a new quality "bribed to support Candidate Y," automatically switch to supporting said candidate, earn some turncoat [Edit: or something like Turncoat, see posts 2 & 3], and get a large increase in suspicion and scandal. If Player B switches candidates again or accepts another bribe he will earn considerable turncoat, which would seriously inconvenience him in the rest of the election (like, among other things, a certain amount of turncoat could mean a switch from one candidate to another loses all progress, not just half and maybe activate some seasonal menace cards?). If Player B refuses the bribe, Player A gets really big suspicion and scandal penalties. One bribe gone wrong too many and its off to New Newgate or the Tomb Colonies for them.


3. Dangerous Options for Agitators
Agitators are street fighters - rotten eggs, barricades, provocation, that sort of thing. One player who initially chose Agitator commented that he was disappointed that there weren't any dangerous things for him to do and everything involved stealth or persuasion. Seems a shame that there aren't any opportunities for Agitators to get their knuckles bloody.


4. Non-Fate Items in Mr. Mirrors Election Market
I loved all the items for sale at the market! I bought five and will certainly buy some more next year (namely the wax boots). But it was disappointing that there weren't any non-fate items to purchase. The Feast of the Exceptional Rose has companions that can be acquired without paying fate and it would be nice if the election market had something similar. Like, they don't have to be particularly good items, stat wise, just interesting. We're talking campaign swag, the late 19th century equivalent of posters and t-shirts: hats, signs, soap boxes, knick knacks. The Contrarian's campaign used quite a few election themed props, among them a scare crow of Sinning Jenny. I would love to have a scare crow of Sinning Jenny and would pay a fair number of echoes for one :P
edited by Anne Auclair on 7/19/2016

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

7/19/2016
Is there a reason why cynics can't claim a more lucrative election reward from the ministry or something similar? A mercenary version of the careers where rather than trying to support a candidate, they try to air as much dirty laundry and unpleasant truths as possible? I mean, the careers are a pretty big part of election gameplay, cutting them away stinks- but i don't know, maybe it's fine.

I can say at least one person succeeded in vote selling (not me) though they have not been fully paid off yet, they have gotten about two-thirds of the payment already. A more convenient way to bribe people would be nice, though, if we're going to allow it.

Turncoat for bribes seems inconsistently punishing- it might be worth it, but it's really impossible for pre-POSI players to heal- you'd need either a seasonal cure, or for the bribed party to be willing and able to sacrifice either revolution or masters connection. The options are semi-trivial, actually, but it's impossible to cure pre-box. [and to make matters worse, there are other ways to get turncoat. in normal gameplay, the box is the only thing affected, so a wise/unwise player can gather lots of it using criminal favors on betrayals. But during the election, it'll lock you out of stuff, even if all you did was constantly take a mission to beat up a politician and saved him instead.]

I would suggest making a new quality for bribes instead, since turncoat doesn't fit right, and is actually pretty trivial to deal with if it's possible at all. (7 actions and 7 suspicion, if the numbers are right.). Something like, for the purposes of this discussion, bribed. lv. 1 is mostly trivial. it will, however, lock faction swapping. once you're bought, you stay bought unless someone else offers a bribe for another faction. it will, however, label you as taken, and mean that all people who try to bribe you know they're buying traitors, or not buying individuals who stay bought. lv. 2 is traitor. This will do- let's say four, theoretically- things. You're still bribed, and can be bribed again.

however, A- the option for bribing/making traitors is clearly seperate and labeled- so no one will be fooled again. It also gives you less resources for each bribe type.

B- you gain a substantial quantity of wounds, nightmares and suspicion upon betraying another, and gain it again every time, if you

C- An autofire menace card is added to your deck. Every time you draw it, you have to take your pick of social penalty actions for someone you betrayed. You must send them a gift of some sort, or suffer many penalties. this will eventually pay off by removing the card, and better gifts will remove it faster, but the menace will restock any time you betray again.

D- The betrayed will be notified of your betrayal after the first social action, and may well decide to poison you, send a "cat box", or have friends or allies do the same.
edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1625

7/19/2016
Grenem wrote:
Is there a reason why cynics can't claim a more lucrative election reward from the ministry or something similar? A mercenary version of the careers where rather than trying to support a candidate, they try to air as much dirty laundry and unpleasant truths as possible? I mean, the careers are a pretty big part of election gameplay, cutting them away stinks- but i don't know, maybe it's fine.

Well, the campaign career mechanic is about assembling votes for your candidate by persuasion, trickery, or public agitation. Your career score goes towards the final outcome. If you don't want to contribute to the final outcome, why have a score at all? As for the MoPD reward - they'd be getting some pretty big payouts for the election resources.
Grenem wrote:
Turncoat seems punishing- it might be worth it, but it's really hard to cure in normal gameplay- you'd need either a seasonal cure, or for the bribed party to be willing and able to sacrifice either revolution or masters connection. The options are semi-trivial, actually, but it's impossible to cure pre-box. [and to make matters worse, there are other ways to get turncoat. in normal gameplay, the box is the only thing affected, so a wise/unwise player can gather lots of it using criminal favors on betrayals.]

I would suggest making a new quality for bribes instead, since turncoat doesn't fit right.

Hmmmm, good point. Okay, it should be something like turncoat, but not actually turncoat.

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1625

7/19/2016
Grenem wrote:
Something like, for the purposes of this discussion, bribed. lv. 1 is mostly trivial. it will, however, lock faction swapping. once you're bought, you stay bought unless someone else offers a bribe for another faction.

I don't agree with this. I think we should leave the door open to be as treacherous as possible :P

Grenem wrote:
D- The betrayed will be notified of your betrayal after the first social action, and may well decide to poison you, send a "cat box", or have friends or allies do the same.

Maybe we could have a "break legs" social action. Though to use it you'd have to be an Agitator and have Use of Villains.

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

7/19/2016
Anne Auclair wrote:
Grenem wrote:
Something like, for the purposes of this discussion, bribed. lv. 1 is mostly trivial. it will, however, lock faction swapping. once you're bought, you stay bought unless someone else offers a bribe for another faction.

I don't agree with this. I think we should leave the door open to be as treacherous as possible :P

Grenem wrote:
D- The betrayed will be notified of your betrayal after the first social action, and may well decide to poison you, send a "cat box", or have friends or allies do the same.

Maybe we could have a "break legs" social action. Though to use it you'd have to be an Agitator and have Use of Villains.

I think at least that backstabbing immediately moves you to bribed 2 even if you weren't bribed. we don't want it to be too trivial, or it's not worth paying a large sum, rather than offering a pittance in coins to newbies. [which is a thing i could have done but didn't.]

I also think for a whole "use of villians", (22 echoes) the thing better hit really hard. I mean, while normal poison can be dodged, it gives 10 cp wounds for 1 action. what we've got here is a nice little 13 action bundle if we're generous. Otherwise, i'd suggest we use one of its components instead, if a near or actually lethal option is too over-the-top. [or give a whole menace bundle. 10 cp each is pretty nasty- with undodgable, it's probably going to send someone to their menace area, even if which one is in doubt. maybe not worth 22 echoes, but who can put a price on painful vengance?]

Anne Auclair wrote:
Grenem wrote:
Is there a reason why cynics can't claim a more lucrative election reward from the ministry or something similar? A mercenary version of the careers where rather than trying to support a candidate, they try to air as much dirty laundry and unpleasant truths as possible? I mean, the careers are a pretty big part of election gameplay, cutting them away stinks- but i don't know, maybe it's fine.

Well, the campaign career mechanic is about assembling votes for your candidate by persuasion, trickery, or public agitation. Your career score goes towards the final outcome. If you don't want to contribute to the final outcome, why have a score at all? As for the MoPD reward - they'd be getting some pretty big payouts for the election resources.

Yeah, but... idk, leveling a campaign feels meaningful and worth doing. I mean, if faction Q wants to spread dissatisfaction, they could well support cynics. hell, the revolution, the masters. A cynic's job is to convince people "They're all terrible".
edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1625

7/19/2016
Grenem wrote:

Yeah, but... idk, leveling a campaign feels meaningful and worth doing. I mean, if faction Q wants to spread dissatisfaction, they could well support cynics. hell, the revolution, the masters. A cynic's job is to convince people "They're all terrible".
edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

And as a result, the 34 people you could have otherwise persuaded will not vote and the vote total will be lower. A career level is unnecessary.

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Estelle Knoht
Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1679

7/19/2016
Comprehensive Bribes sound nice, except it is far too easy to exploit - just pick a side you don't want, collaborate with each other and send each other bribe once. Just like that, you and your friend each converted one bribe to several hundred echoes, and on a side you choose.

An overly complicated bribery mechanic might be too distracting from the election proper.

Since people are complaining about Career Levels providing meagre rewards, perhaps letting them trade in Career Levels for useless souvenirs will help. Like buying "slightly less dubious scarlet stockings" or something silly. Doesn't even have to draw new art, and if you like profit it is plenty viable to ignore Career Levels and just do your own things.

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 1625

7/19/2016
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Comprehensive Bribes sound nice, except it is far too easy to exploit - just pick a side you don't want, collaborate with each other and send each other bribe once. Just like that, you and your friend each converted one bribe to several hundred echoes, and on a side you choose.

An overly complicated bribery mechanic might be too distracting from the election proper.

Huh, hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that would be a problem. I suppose one way of dealing with it would be to make the costs of sending the bribe far outweigh the profit one would make from getting a bribe. So the only way to make a profit would be to receive bribes, not send them. Two players who sent bribes to each other would then be worse off than two players who had done nothing.

Though I think it would have to be way more than one comprehensive bribe. Bribes can be sold on the Bazaar for 12 echoes, so to get 100 echoes worth you'd have to send ten of the things. There could be other costs as well, like use of villains. The more expensive the better.

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Neonir
Neonir
Posts: 118

7/19/2016
Anne Auclair wrote:

3. Dangerous Options for Agitators
Agitators are street fighters - rotten eggs, barricades, provocation, that sort of thing. One player who initially chose Agitator commented that he was disappointed that there weren't any dangerous things for him to do and everything involved stealth or persuasion. Seems a shame that there aren't any opportunities for Agitators to get their knuckles bloody.


This was possibly me and I approve of this message.

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Morkan Kassington
Morkan Kassington
Posts: 261

7/19/2016
Neonir wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:

3. Dangerous Options for Agitators
Agitators are street fighters - rotten eggs, barricades, provocation, that sort of thing. One player who initially chose Agitator commented that he was disappointed that there weren't any dangerous things for him to do and everything involved stealth or persuasion. Seems a shame that there aren't any opportunities for Agitators to get their knuckles bloody.


This was possibly me and I approve of this message.


It might have been me, too, guv. Strength in numbers. wink

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

7/19/2016
Anne Auclair wrote:
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Comprehensive Bribes sound nice, except it is far too easy to exploit - just pick a side you don't want, collaborate with each other and send each other bribe once. Just like that, you and your friend each converted one bribe to several hundred echoes, and on a side you choose.

An overly complicated bribery mechanic might be too distracting from the election proper.

Huh, hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that would be a problem. I suppose one way of dealing with it would be to make the costs of sending the bribe far outweigh the profit one would make from getting a bribe. So the only way to make a profit would be to receive bribes, not send them. Two players who sent bribes to each other would then be worse off than two players who had done nothing.

Though I think it would have to be way more than one comprehensive bribe. Bribes can be sold on the Bazaar for 12 echoes, so to get 100 echoes worth you'd have to send ten of the things. There could be other costs as well, like use of villains. The more expensive the better.

Well, there are really two options- you can make the bribes go for half your construction materials [3 love stories, 15 memories of the surface, 150 romantic notions]- (so it's a good way of disposing of a stockpile from FW, with mutual bribery, but otherwise is only good for actual bribing- since it costs 60 echoes to make, but only rewards 30.)- or you can make the bribe something else. I don't know.

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Parelle
Parelle
Posts: 1077

7/19/2016
One thing which surprised me is that there is no cost to backing a candidate: the game text speaks of Society disapproving of Jenny: shouldn't that result in CP lost? Shouldn't leaving the Bishop result in Church loss (or joining result in Hell loss?) Yes, we want to it be as open as it can be to new players, but thematically it would make sense (maybe have this type of hit happen at POSI level?)

I would have also loved more text (more text!) or different text depending on your role/faction: The more often you do a Flash Lay, the deeper in you get.

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Vavakx Nonexus
Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 796

7/19/2016
Anne Auclair wrote:
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Comprehensive Bribes sound nice, except it is far too easy to exploit - just pick a side you don't want, collaborate with each other and send each other bribe once. Just like that, you and your friend each converted one bribe to several hundred echoes, and on a side you choose.

An overly complicated bribery mechanic might be too distracting from the election proper.

Huh, hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that would be a problem. I suppose one way of dealing with it would be to make the costs of sending the bribe far outweigh the profit one would make from getting a bribe. So the only way to make a profit would be to receive bribes, not send them. Two players who sent bribes to each other would then be worse off than two players who had done nothing.

Though I think it would have to be way more than one comprehensive bribe. Bribes can be sold on the Bazaar for 12 echoes, so to get 100 echoes worth you'd have to send ten of the things. There could be other costs as well, like use of villains. The more expensive the better.



I'd have to disagree with "The more expensive the better." idea, as I feel like it greatly limits one's abilities to enjoy the content in full. I understand where you're coming from, with the bribe being seductive, but kind of sub-optimal to trade with someone. What I don't want is option lock-down. What happened at Serpentine Arrangements is already pretty disappointing, with 2 out of 4 (and 1 lost only due to it's feline nature.) votes going to the same bidder. Making the base requirements even harsher would not even come close to solving this problem, as some have stockpiled a large amount of almost every resource, and others being forced into FW to get enough to battle the veteran. In fact, I'd like to see more bribery options. Less-than-serious catbox bribes. Token amount of Rostygolds bribes. Medium-level bribes of some kind and, finally, the Bribe-bribes. I'd suggest making that option (The Bribe-bribe) available only for bribing people with more than, let's say, 25 Voting Power, and the other bribes taking other, lower power levels. It's been mentioned before that normal votes were being bought 5 Dollars per, and 1 Career is basically that - Just a vote. I still wonder as to how might this system be set up in a possible to execute way. Maybe, something like Moon League, with back-and-forth as to the amount of money your vote will cost?
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 7/19/2016

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A Dimness
A Dimness
Posts: 612

7/19/2016
I like most of it, but using Comprehensive Bribes as, well, bribing materials would greatly inconvenience newer pre-PoSI players, because the materials required for it aren't exactly cheap. How about having the required bribery material scale to how much you're contributing to the vote?

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

7/19/2016
Vavakx Nonexus wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
Estelle Knoht wrote:
Comprehensive Bribes sound nice, except it is far too easy to exploit - just pick a side you don't want, collaborate with each other and send each other bribe once. Just like that, you and your friend each converted one bribe to several hundred echoes, and on a side you choose.

An overly complicated bribery mechanic might be too distracting from the election proper.

Huh, hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that would be a problem. I suppose one way of dealing with it would be to make the costs of sending the bribe far outweigh the profit one would make from getting a bribe. So the only way to make a profit would be to receive bribes, not send them. Two players who sent bribes to each other would then be worse off than two players who had done nothing.

Though I think it would have to be way more than one comprehensive bribe. Bribes can be sold on the Bazaar for 12 echoes, so to get 100 echoes worth you'd have to send ten of the things. There could be other costs as well, like use of villains. The more expensive the better.



I'd have to disagree with "The more expensive the better." idea, as I feel like it greatly limits one's abilities to enjoy the content in full. I understand where you're coming from, with the bribe being seductive, but kind of sub-optimal to trade with someone. What I don't want is option lock-down. What happened at Serpentine Arrangements is already pretty disappointing, with 2 out of 4 (and 1 lost only due to it's feline nature.) votes going to the same bidder. Making the base requirements even harsher would not even come close to solving this problem, as some have stockpiled a large amount of almost every resource, and others being forced into FW to get enough to battle the veteran. In fact, I'd like to see more bribery options. Less-than-serious catbox bribes. Token amount of Rostygolds bribes. Medium-level bribes of some kind and, finally, the Bribe-bribes. I'd suggest making that option available only for bribing people with more than, let's say, 25 Voting Power, and the other bribes taking other, lower power levels. It's been mentioned before that normal votes were being bought 5 Dollars per, and 1 Career is basically that - Just a vote. I still wonder as to how might this system be set up in a possible to execute way. Maybe, something like Moon League, with back-and-forth as to the amount of money your vote will cost?
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 7/19/2016

A counterpoint- one vote is worth 20 echoes in normal gameplay, less the reward for supporting a faction- leaving it at something like 12 echoes. What would be optimal is a lot of different bribe types, bribes being stackable, and a way to know exactly how many votes you were buying. A fair price for Buying 20 votes is 215 echoes- as in, that's the cost in election materials of what they gave up. [plus, the notability could drive it higher.]

That said, you do realize the main problem with the bribes last time was twofold- some people felt bribing was unethical, and it's darn near impossible to get transferable currencies, right? most of the paragons of the community could easily dump echoes into getting comprehensive bribes, but there's basically no good coin sources for players without heart's desire. Gift boxes rely on card draw. something that's untied to card luck is going to be far more effective.

Still, a non-POSI locked option might be nice.

edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

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Vavakx Nonexus
Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 796

7/19/2016
Grenem wrote:

A counterpoint- one vote is worth 20 echoes in normal gameplay, less the reward for supporting a faction- leaving it at something like 12 echoes. What would be optimal is a lot of different bribe types, bribes being stackable, and a way to know exactly how many votes you were buying. A fair price for Buying 20 votes is 215 echoes- as in, that's the cost in election materials of what they gave up. [plus, the notability could drive it higher.]

That said, you do realize the main problem with the bribes last time was twofold- some people felt bribing was unethical, and it's darn near impossible to get transferable currencies, right? most of the paragons of the community could easily dump echoes into getting comprehensive bribes, but there's basically no good coin sources for players without heart's desire. Gift boxes rely on card draw. something that's untied to card luck is going to be far more effective.

Still, a non-POSI locked option might be nice.

edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

Sadly, you're mostly right on the transferrable currencies thing. (I am sure quite a lot of forum-goers have alts that busy themselves with Heart's Desire and can do the FCC grind.) I assumed that we already were talking about making new options for bartering in terms of votes, and we will have to do with what we have until new options appear.

I'd like to also remind you that the first point in your career is given to you for absolutely free, and I feel like deciding vote price using the resources needed to get to that level is not appropriate, due to...

The Bribees. (Those devils. All for a pun.) I feel like the core audience for bribes would be the sort of people that are disappointed by campaign revelations from the half-way renovation/beginning investigations, as I was, and do not wish to destroy their career. Their votes are not worth the tens of echoes to them, and therefore could be bought at a reduced price. In my opinion, either the resource cash-in rewards have to be lower (from 10 to 5 echoes, for example), or being a bribery target from the beginning would be all sorts of unustainable, but I may be proven wrong.

Now, mechanical idea:

Pick a partner for Vote Trading. (Choose a person. You get 'Partner's Potential', which is Career level + Notability and marks which person is the Partner (Like Seen With... or Pacts of Glass in Old K&C), and the Partner is notified. After, letters ensue, or the sender moves on to another Partner.)

Partner's Potential unlocks a list of social actions, all of them scaled bribery options, example:

The Cheapest Gift: A Bag of Rostygolds for [Candidate] that gives 1000*PP in Rostygolds to the Partner and removes PP from the Sender. If it is accepted, A Betrayer's Arrangement is given to the Partner, marking which candidate they should now follow. They cannot participate until they change candidate or take the harsh punishment, but they can ask for more bribes via letters. and they get the Rostygolds. Refusal gives back the Rostygolds to the sender.

This is fairly basic, and I am unsure how this might work, but it is a fairly good plan for an actual set of actions. If Storynexus still allowed worldmaking, I'd test this in a separate world, but, for now, we have to do with writing here.

EDIT: Working on it RN. May get results.
edited by Vavakx Nonexus on 7/19/2016

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Parelle
Parelle
Posts: 1077

7/19/2016
I would recommend some caution in the delightful Agitator menace mucking: assuming Flash Lays are here to stay, anything but Wounds would make those difficult if not impossible to start. They'll make things painfully annoying, particularly for newer players.

To expand off what I said earlier, I would love to have different layers of information for each candidate (a marker like the Myrrh scented Roses would work). Perhaps if you finish the entire sequence (7 or so investigations/flash lays focusing on this campaign) you would have the option to join this candidate for no cost (or leave your current candidate)

I'd also vastly prefer to have the campaigns as flash lay targets a la the setup in the main game where you pick your target before going in. This could come with personalized obstacles relating to each one (I mean, is Your Mark Jenny hersel? What kind of entertaining? Does the Bishop employ a manservant?) how do you get information out of a Ninja Nun?

And I'm definitely for using the Pickpocket's Promenade for Dirty Secrets! That's a vastly underused system.

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Pnakotic
Pnakotic
Posts: 193

7/19/2016
Tbh, I like the election a lot more the way it is currently than turning it into a cash-cow event financially encouraging players to just skunk the whole process.

I do agree that Agitators would benefit from some more "dangerous" choices for their career path. But unfortunately the only real Dangerous grinds are things like Dueling the Black Ribbon or hunting dangerous game, neither of which play well for this purposes (and are mechanically identical to the Big Score for Shadowy). Compare with Investigations (Watchful), Writing (Persuasive), Flash Lays (Shadowy and Persuasive), and Heists (Shadowy). Maybe adding some more hard-boiled options to investigations to allow players to break some heads to get information would help... but I think it points out a lack of satisfying Dangerous content compared to the other attribute-linked pursuits.

I also think the turn-in value for short stories needs to be evaluated, as the action and item cost compared to doing made it a very unattractive choice compared to doing Flash Lays (which were themselves considerably more action-intensive than the investigation option, though the overall benefits made them worthwhile).

  • edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016

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    Grenem
    Grenem
    Posts: 2067

    7/19/2016
    Pnakotic wrote:
    Tbh, I like the election a lot more the way it is currently than turning it into a cash-cow event financially encouraging players to just skunk the whole process.

    I do agree that Agitators would benefit from some more "dangerous" choices for their career path. But unfortunately the only real Dangerous grinds are things like Dueling the Black Ribbon or hunting dangerous game, neither of which play well for this purposes (and are mechanically identical to the Big Score for Shadowy). Compare with Investigations (Watchful), Writing (Persuasive), Flash Lays (Shadowy and Persuasive), and Heists (Shadowy). Maybe adding some more hard-boiled options to investigations to allow players to break some heads to get information would help... but I think it points out a lack of satisfying Dangerous content compared to the other attribute-linked pursuits.

    I also think the turn-in value for short stories needs to be evaluated, as the action and item cost compared to doing made it a very unattractive choice compared to doing Flash Lays (which were themselves considerably more action-intensive than the investigation option, though the overall benefits made them worthwhile).

  • edited by Pnakotic on 7/19/2016

    TBH, that's what my angry diatribe on the forums was- I want voting to be as viable as scrapping the materials for echoes, so that voting isn't commiting to spend [effectively, compared to 380 echoes from cash-ins] 215 echoes for a lv.20 vote.

    Aren't the investigations non-viable for gathering votes? i mean, they only provide one type of material. unless you're getting the public attention from parties (20 echoes less payout for what looks like the same value) or from newspapers (break-even [well, 9.4 echoes profit if you got it from docks and didn't get the alt failure, -0.6 echoes if you got it from the bazaar] with 1 attention for 13 actions, plus the action to get to spite- each time, unless you're doing a mass batch.), you still need to do something else for actual votes. I mean, if you're after echoes, they are probably the best option, but they only provide one type of material.
    edited by Grenem on 7/19/2016

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    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 1625

    7/19/2016
    Infinity Simulacrum wrote:
    I like most of it, but using Comprehensive Bribes as, well, bribing materials would greatly inconvenience newer pre-PoSI players, because the materials required for it aren't exactly cheap

    I don't think there's anything we can do about this. Newer players will always be at a material and stat disadvantage. For example, the campaign resource card offers election supplies for a price that an experienced POSI would find trivial but a newer character daunting.

    As for newer players not having access to the Bazaar Side Streets, and hence unable to make comprehensive bribes and use of villains, that could be easily remedied by a seasonable option allowing the construction of comprehensive bribes/villains outside the Bazaar Side Streets.
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/19/2016

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