Powered by Jitbit .Net Forum free trial version.

HomeFallen London » The Bazaar

This is the place to discuss playing the game. Find tips, debate the best places to find certain items and share advice.

EXPERIMENTAL CONTENT: A Flash Lay Messages in this topic - RSS

Chris Gardiner
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 535

12/16/2015
You could call it a confidence trick, but then people would know what it was, wouldn't they?


Delicious friends! We've just released some new, free content: a flexible card-based mini-game called "A Flash Lay". Flash Lays are confidence tricks: choose a mark, muster your schemes, and avoid suspicion.


We're trialling this content at the moment, and plan to adjust it in response to feedback. Have a play and let us know what you think!


There are two Flash Lays available now: one for characters with Shadowy and Persuasive of about 50, and another for characters with stats of 125 or more.


Characters who have advanced a little way along the Persuasive and Shadowy tracks will find the starting storylet in Veilgarden.



edited by Chris Gardiner on 12/16/2015
+14 link
Chris Gardiner
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 535

12/21/2015
Hi all!


I'm still collecting feedback - we'll implement revisions to the Flash Lay in the new year, so there's still time to be heard. Until then, though, I've added an always-available storylet allowing you to abandon the Flash Lay as long as you have at least 25 Progress. I've also indicated the content is experimental on the initial Flash Lay storylet, and provided a convenient link to this thread.


Thanks for your responses so far! Hugely useful.
+13 link
Chris Gardiner
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 535

12/17/2015
Hi all! Thanks for the responses - keep them coming!


We're going to collect more feedback before making any major changes, but a couple of responses to points raised:
  • I've added a note to the current Flash Lays specifying you need 100 Progress to complete them. Not all future Flash Lays may require the same amount.
  • I chose not to add an instructional storylet, because I wanted to see how well people got to grips with the mechanics without one (pretty well, it turns out!). We may add one (depending on feedback), but this way, we get to see which elements are most unclear.
  • The Flash Lay's length, the frequency of Opening cards, and the possibility of an early escape hatch are all things we'll be considering.
  • The auto-firing Obstacle cards may indeed have my fingerprints on them, but this content is one of the most collaborative pieces of Fallen London content we've done. Alexis did the bulk of the design, with some contributions from Adam and I. The writing was done by Emily Short, Cash, Olivia and myself. I think the different voices in the prose add to the sense of variety in the content.

Thanks folks!
+8 link
NiteBrite
NiteBrite
Posts: 1014

12/20/2015
I'm glad I took the time to play the flash lay. It had a definite Chris feel to the mechanics, and it reminded me of Dragon Age: The Last Court (TLC) hunts (a good thing) minus a lot of the polish those had.
[spoiler]The Issue (IMO)

For example I would say 30 actions is pretty reasonable length for the Lay, but it feels long because there's no sense of progress. In TLC hunts for example, there was a progress bar and you could watch as you gained on your prey growing closer and closer. The end condition of the hunt auto-fired as a Must immediately once you had enough progress, but you could miss, lose progress, and get a chance to try again (at an advantage) if you had time left. The main complaint I have about the Lay is without a sense of time or a way to keep tabs on progress it feels like you aren't making progress and are just aimlessly trapped and flailing about.

Hunts in TLC had an interesting 'time is running out' mechanic. You had until the end of the day to catch your prey or else it got away. Every move you made cost some amount of time, similar to how Cat and Mouse cases with the implacable detective card works in Fallen London. This gave you an incentive to sometime pick the riskier options or to take on a voluntary menace quality because you were up against the clock. Maybe you choose to leave your hunting party behind because they are slowing you down, and this means you cant surround your prey on the final move. Or maybe you choose to drag your party with you into the thick brush creating a lot of noise (making progress harder). The important thing here is it made you very aware how close you were to the end condition. You are a lot more aware of how many more moves you have left. It adds a sense of time and urgency, and keeps you engaged in planning your actions.

I believe the Hunt menace events were scripted to occur at specific levels of progress (ex. 50%, 100%) as well as popped up as potential choices on cards. Here in the Flash Lay, menaces seem to be things that happen to you by blind chance. Blind chance menaces which are beyond your control (ex Suddenly you get caught snooping around a door: gain a suspicion or gain a scandal) don't really have the same impact as menaces you bring upon yourself through informed self-sacrifice. The inconvenient contact had the feel of being a burden you choose to take, as I like to see, but again there didn't seem to be any incentive to do so such as a deadline. Improved EPA isn't a super great incentive when you consider there are other simpler and less chance based grinds out there. Maybe the idea with the Flash Lay is your stats aren't supposed to be good enough to let you take your time on the Lay, and the menaces are your timer, but that feels a bit clunky to me and it sort of feeds into this feeling that no progress is being made.

Three things I would recommend based on this is 1. having the end of the Lay autofire when the progress goal is achieved, 2. find a way to make progress more visible (a bar is nice, but I'd understand if this is rejected for not fitting the aesthetic of Fallen London), 3. introduce an incentive to chose the riskier options such as a time limit on how long you can be gone from your normal life before someone notices.

Potential Add-ons

There were some cool features TLC hunts had that don't have a counterpart in the Flash Lay but which could be neat to see in the future. I see the current content as a test of the stripped down core mechanics, and these other features as potential polish for the future.

1. Different prey at the same difficulty - This worked like picking your reward for cashing in dramatic tension in the War of Assassins carousel. TLC hunts offered a broad selection of rewards without changing the overall difficulty significantly. It was nice being able to pursue specific rewards.
2. Starting Boons - At the start of each hunt you had the opportunity to prepare an advantage or boon before heading off into the wilds and leaving your normal life behind. Maybe you packed extra provisions, a one time menace reduction per hunt. Maybe you left early to get a little extra time. If you were the acquaintance of a specific companion who was known for being a prolific hunter you could take them along and gain progress more easily. The choice of boon opened and closed opportunities accordingly and gave each hunt a different feel even if the cards were the same from hunt to hunt.
3. Variable difficulty/Area Movement - TLC hunts had two zones you could move between either using supplies or by using a specific movement card. The first area was an easy difficulty forest area where progress was slow, but menaces were rarer and you were unlikely to fail challenges. The second area was the deep woods and it had riskier options, gave more frequent menace cards, but as a boon you progressed much faster. The mid-point hunt scripted menace event would move to this area if you chose one of the high progress gain menace options (ex. "quick chase after your prey, alone, into the deep woods or stay here and lose a bit of progress [this will remove your hunting party]"). I liked that sense of progress, that as you drew closer to the end things got harder or you moved to a new area. The closest similar thing I can think of in Fallen London is how the cards change with Troubled Waters when zailing at zee. The change in cards makes zee voyages have a definite progression feel. Troubled waters acts the opposite of what I recommend above and is a risk disincentive rather than a risk incentive, but the concept is similar.
4. Quirks gain - There's quirks drains in the Lay, but no quirks gain as far as I could see. If there's enough randomization and drains in the content that it can't be readily farmed for quirks (no more than the opportunity deck can in regular FL) then it might make sense to have some quirks gains spread around in there as well. One of the things I really liked about TLC was how the "stats"/quirks there played off one another and the player was sort of tasked with a dynamic juggling act of choice and consequence and that could be nice to see here too (it's an ideal).
5. The demon bear / the bard is kidnapped - !!! TLC had a few hunt related key events where you encounter a hunt that is harder than any other, but was either on an epic scale or was of significant personal investment (such as reclaiming a kidnapped lover). A one off tough flash lay of a specific individual of some importance could be quite thrilling compared to the general riff-raff of a common flash lay of people we never heard of before. Anyone can rob a random spirifer, but imagine a quest to rob specifically one of the Masters, or like to trick your way into the confidences of a high ranking New Sequencer.

The Good

I'd like to end off this long post with some positivity. I liked the writing and the feel of this content. The flash lay has good core mechanics. I really like the feel of potential here. I've seen how this type of content can be used and I look forward to seeing it more fully implemented and further polished.[/spoiler]
edited by NiteBrite on 12/20/2015

--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
+7 link
Pyrodinium
Pyrodinium
Posts: 639

12/17/2015
NiteBrite wrote:
CALLNXW wrote:
My biggest problem with the new content is that it's impossible to end at will. Unlike heists, card rarity doesn't change after hitting the goal, and so I'm stuck at 130 progress with no end in sight.

[spoiler][/spoiler]



Mr. Veil's Wild Heist - The Progress never ends!

--
My profiles: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Pyrodinium
(A Monster hunter on the hunt of his twin brother's killer. Overprotective dad of his twin's daughter)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Rudolph~of~Taured
(an indeterminate person of potentially rubbery lineage)
* All social actions except photographers and loitering welcome!
+6 link
babelfishwars
babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1131

12/16/2015
Lisbella Peridot wrote:
There are names in this content! I saw the name Clarence, which is surprising. Isn't characters usually (the adjective + noun)?


Clarence is perfect.
edited by babelfishwars on 12/16/2015

--
Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
+6 link
Kylestien
Kylestien
Posts: 734

12/16/2015
My feedback on this is as follows:

Fun and I'd like to see more, however:
I'd like the needed requirement to be a LITTLE bit lower for the rewards. I think 90 would be sufficent. ALTERNATIVLY ad I think this better, do what Cat and Mouse do and have three rewards: One weaker reward for 50, one for 100, and one better one then current for 150.

Also, a Watchful and Dangerious one later on, for those players.

Somehow add this to Mr Eaten content in a card game of spiral and misery.

--
I will accept all actions, though I hold the right to refuse for my own reasons. However, if you explain WHY you send me a harmful action like Loitering or Dantes,And I feel the reason good, I will consider it more. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kylestien

Persuasive patron. You want a lesson, send me a message asking for one.
+6 link
metasynthie
metasynthie
Posts: 645

12/16/2015
Robin Mask wrote:
Added to that, I'm not sure whether this is a bug or intentional, but I can only draw three cards, too, despite having a four-card lodgings :-S


I seem to recall one of the staff mentioning a while back that "alternate deck" locations would be shifting more and more towards a fixed hand-size too. It's a bit of a shame since it's one of the biggest perks of having expensive lodgings, and the more tightly-played alternate-deck subgames like heists and Polythreme benefit from it enormously. I guess if the second Flash Lay opens up at 125 stats, one could expect it to be similar to in EPA to Affair of the Box, but it'll likely take quite a bit of math to figure that out, and having a hand size limited to three will definitely affect that.

--
Positively antique
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
+5 link
dov
dov
Posts: 2537

12/17/2015
After some time to think more on this:

Absolutely needs one of the following refinements:
  • Either make it much shorter (though this won't give all the different mechanics time to play out)
  • Or, make it like Expeditions - i.e. able to leave at any time and resume the quest later from the same spot.


Regardless of which of the above is chosen, the following are needed:
  • Clear instructions at the beginning at to what is the goal.
  • A way to quit at any time, with the loss of all progress. Possibly with some penalty (Suspicion increase?).
  • A way to expedite the end condition once the goal Progress level is reached (e.g. by making the exit immediately available; by making the end card extremely high frequency once conditions are met, etc.). Must not reach a point as reported by CALLNXW of having to wait until Progress 160 before finding the resolution to the quest.


-----
edited by dov on 12/17/2015

--
Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
+5 link
 Saklad
Saklad
Posts: 525

4/4/2017
Blair Collins wrote:
I must say I'm not really enjoying this. The Obstacle cards pop up without warning. I don't feel like I have enough of a chance to prepare by building Up Your Sleeve before I hit another Obstacle. The Flash Lays seem like a souped-up version of the Pickpocket Promenade. In both, there's a chance you might get kicked out early. But the Flash Lay is so much bigger, and if you lose a Pickpocket Promenade you at least get to spend the trophies you did collect. Maybe if there were some way to spend progress for a lesser award if your Menaces get too high? So that if you fail you still get something out of it besides the experience.

I enjoy them, but you have to get a feel for risk management and which cards to use. They also have extremely high skill challenges, such that even a max-stat character like mine has difficulties with the Avid Auditor. That still didn’t stop me from grinding Uncanny Incunabula with it, efficiency be damned.


  • My main advice:

    • Hoard Menace reduction cards until you can fully benefit from them, then use them immediately
    • Always try to get more Up Your Sleeve when given the option
    • Try to distribute your Menace gains across Scandal, Suspicion, and Nightmares, the latter of which is often a safe choice since it rarely comes up
    • If you feel you need it, go ahead and spend Up Your Sleeve on Menace reduction. If the current stat is less than 3, you definitely don’t need it. Beyond that, make a judgement call.
    • Don’t be afraid to remove Obstacles instead of turning them into Openings, but always do the latter when able
    • Avoid multi-action options when feasible, since they are very inefficient.
    • Do not underestimate the difficulty. In many ways, the fun part is the panic of trying to recover from near-failure. It isn’t pure luck, but it isn’t a walk in the park either. There’s a moderate learning curve here.


    --
    Saklad5, a man of many talents
  • +5 link
    RandomWalker
    RandomWalker
    Posts: 948

    5/1/2016
    So there I was in the Veilgarden with 34 actions, no cards, and wondering what to do. I decided to try a flash lay. As I've got max stats, and decent gear, I went for the harder of the two options. I quickly found out why I generally avoided that option previously.

    With pretty decent gear, my chances of success with the skill checks was about 70%. With some mildly bad luck, I quickly got a distribution of menaces, and this is where my problem lies.

    If the player is lucky, flash lays go smoothly and offer a modestly nice return on their actions. If they're not, the menace cards start cropping up, starting at menace 3. These cards cost actions to navigate (duh), and they reduce up your sleeve. By reducing up you sleeve, these menace cards slow down your progress, thus increasing your chances of gaining more menaces, thus more menace cards, etc. Likewise, if things are going well, then you might hold onto the ending card if it appears. If they're going badly, the player must seriously consider cashing it in for up your sleeve. Then you have the obstacles, which are going to add more to your menaces if you don't have enough up your sleeve.

    It's a vicious cycle.

    My problem with this is that if a flash lay starts to go badly, then it's only going to get worse, but the sunk cost fallacy is going to keep players playing, until they finally slog their way through, or get kicked out.

    This bimodal distribution is unquestionably deliberate, and I'm guessing that it is intended to teach some lesson about reach and grasp, but for me, at least, it doesn't add tension or fun. I started a flash lay because I wanted to play a flash lay, not because I wanted to start a flash lay, was but ready to quit the moment it went south.

    I haven't finished the lay yet, but yeesh, that mechanic is annoying.
    edited by RandomWalker on 5/1/2016
    +4 link
    genesis
    genesis
    Posts: 920

    3/3/2016
    I have a massive request. Could we please please please have zero action costs on the guide branches? I keep getting unpleasantly surprised when I just want to check on how obstacles work or whatever and eats my actions!

    --
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin

    Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
    +4 link
    The Master
    The Master
    Posts: 804

    12/16/2015
    Some very interesting mechanics here, never saw cards that automaticly activate when you get them either, after almost 20 actions I still see new things which is not very common for mini games like this, I am having alot of fun with this acutally!

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lolwolfking
    A very ruthless and daring doctor of the neath.

    No more gift exchanges, im getting too many and I can barely hold these.
    He has knowledge of a certain enigma, ask, you will get a clue.
    +4 link
    NiteBrite
    NiteBrite
    Posts: 1014

    12/17/2015
    CALLNXW wrote:
    My biggest problem with the new content is that it's impossible to end at will. Unlike heists, card rarity doesn't change after hitting the goal, and so I'm stuck at 130 progress with no end in sight.

    [spoiler][/spoiler]

    --
    I AM currently accepting calling cards.
    Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
    [00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
    Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
    +4 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/17/2015
    Is it just me, or are the Openings the most arduous qualities to get in this system, and yet quite ineffectual? 4 up your sleeve can get you 25 progress, but going up to 8 up your sleeve can put an Opening card in your deck... But that card has options that either gain you more Up Your Sleeve, or 3 (!) progress at the cost of the opening, or 1 progress. Given hiw many cards give you 3 or 7 progress for a skill check (which acquiring and using the Opening cards also require!) I'm not sure why Openings would ever be a good idea to pursue. They're dependent on drawing a lot more cards (6 at least), pay out worse than many single cards, and are strictly dominated by the "change an obstacle into progress" option as far as I can tell.

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +4 link
    dov
    dov
    Posts: 2537

    12/17/2015
    First thoughts:

    This is like really long Heists (or Pickpocket Promenade), but with multiple qualities and items which affect progress.

    Pros:
    • Interesting new content.
    • Nice diversion from other grinds - includes lots of variations.
    • Decent profitability (took me 30 actions to get the 50 echoes, and I had no idea what I was doing - mostly trying to sample as many cards as possible).



    Cons:
    • Each cycle is too long. I'm interested in experiencing this again to try out all the variety, but if each run is ~30 actions this will be tedious unless I'm starting with full candles (40 actions).
    • Confusing - not clear what my actual goal is! Only after encountering a certain card did I first learn that I should aim for 100 Progress.
    • Confusing - so many variations (obstacles, new qualities, new temporary items, etc.).


    EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the cool new (and free!) content! Hope to see it refined even more to make it more accessible.

    ------
    edited by dov on 12/17/2015

    --
    Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
    (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
    +4 link
    maleclypse
    maleclypse
    Posts: 256

    12/17/2015
    Great stuff. But I'm currently over ten actions past 100 progress with no finish card in sight. Should probably set random draw to stop soon after 100 progress unless there are hidden rewards past 100 progress.

    --
    Maintaining a controlling interest in my soul requires a pretty constant negotiation between the various shareholder interests. Thankfully the Fingerkings 23% control makes a pretty good foil to unite the other factions enough to get to 51%.

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Maleclypse
    +4 link
    Askebaske
    Askebaske
    Posts: 22

    12/29/2015
    My thoughts are as follows:

    * Excellent idea, and I enjoy the 'balancing' of menaces against time/progress. I also enjoy that it takes a while: I vastly prefer the longer "investments" with significant rewards than the short predictable carousels.
    * I enjoy the variety of the difficulty of the challenges. I have often said that what Fallen London really need is some high difficulty challenges once in awhile with good rewards that you will NEVER have the stats to do reliably - for the game to be exciting you need risk, and this introduces it in a great way.
    * There really, really needs to be a better introduction about the menaces. I had 100 progress and was searching for the card to end, then drew a card that instantly ended by run because I had 5 nightmare and only 2 Trick. That WOULD have been fine, I enjoy risk, if I KNEW in advance that having 5 in a menace risked losing everything.
    * The way it is set up now, I doubt it will get much use from mid-lategame because keeping Menaces that low across the board rarely happens for me, so having that as an entry requirement is a bit of a barrier.
    +3 link
    dov
    dov
    Posts: 2537

    3/22/2016
    Meradine Heidenreich wrote:
    xKiv wrote:
    [You *did* equip the hat, right?.
    Seriously?
    Unfortunately, yes.

    Activating a Mood card gives you a +30 Hat item for one hour, but you need to manually equip the hat to get the stat bonus.

    It's very much non-intuitive and easily missed by new players.

    --
    Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
    (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
    +3 link
    jasper
    jasper
    Posts: 55

    4/6/2016
    I got my menaces down to 3 so I could start on the shiny new content and I failed pretty quickly (Shadowy 57, Persuasive 52). Quite sad about all those wasted actions. Maybe you could advise to start at 0 menace before embarking on one, so others don't make the same mistake?
    +3 link
    Maria Vesterli
    Maria Vesterli
    Posts: 1

    6/7/2016
    I just used two entire days on a Flash Lay that I failed, so this feedback is probably going to be rather subjective. I'm a bit bitter about it.
    It...sounded fun, and it was interesting to play. However, if it was supposed to be a minigame, you have failed spectacularly. I used several days inside it, and failed by a large margin, despite picking the safest route I possibly could. I'll admit, I was only a few levels above 50 in Shadowy and Persuasive, but that should have been enough. I gained nothing but menaces from it and wasted a lot of time I could've used on something that is actually useful in the game. If anything, it has made me want to play a lot less Fallen London.
    That was a bit harsh. I still think it's an interesting concept. I really like the gameplay. It's just way, way, WAY too much progress you need to collect.
    I also think that you weren't really warned about how long time it'll take. I went into it expecting something that would take one or two full candles to complete; instead I used four full candles, even though I didn't manage to play to the end because I lost, and got nothing to show for all those actions.
    It's not that there is nothing good about it: it was great that the draw was limitless, and you got three slots to put them in; I especially liked that not everything costed the same amount of actions; and getting to feel the real consequences from your actions by having cards you have to play was great too.

    Still, the amount of progress and the fact that you get nothing for your efforts if you fail (even when you got more than 60 progress) makes me want to avoid the Flash Lay and discourage anyone playing Fallen London from trying it. I think I would like it either if less progress were needed or you actually gained something from it even when you fail according to your progress; of course this should be little compared to if you succeed the Flash Lay, but it should enough to feel like you didn't entirely waste your time.
    +3 link
    Shalinoth
    Shalinoth
    Posts: 479

    7/5/2016
    When your first experience of new or experimental content is a long-suffering failure with nothing to show for it but negative outcomes, then it may need more tweaking.
    Some kind of quit-while-you're-ahead or even a pause function. It removes you from 'London' that whole time too.

    New content is good content, always. A consolation 'prize' might help here. I've since discovered that entering the heist with near zero menaces makes things.. significantly easier.
    edited by Shalinoth on 7/6/2016

    --
    Profiles: Shally, Chimes & Jack~of~Smiles . . . Current Goal:
    +3 link
    NoxiousMuse
    NoxiousMuse
    Posts: 1

    10/9/2016
    I've just played through the lower-level flash lay. I successfully made it to the 75 points needed for ending cards to start showing up, then spent a few hours continuing to play, burning my steadfast on trying to keep my menaces down because there was nothing else I could do, and no ending card was coming. Finally, right as I reached 100 points--necessary to win the flash lay without an ending card--I simultaneously reached scandal of 5, and lost.

    I must have refilled my hand at least four or five times after reaching 75 points, and no ending card appeared to me. Still, I feel like that card should appear with more frequency once somebody has reached enough points. It's absurd that I refilled my hand so many times and no way out appeared--unless the point is to make it next to impossible to end without 100 points. In which case, don't even bother telling people that they can leave at 75 points, and instead treat it as a surprise offering when they find out they can escape early.
    +3 link
    Jermaine Vendredi
    Jermaine Vendredi
    Posts: 528

    11/12/2016
    I quite enjoy the Flash Lay for the game play; picking the right card, strategically accumulating "Up your sleeve" for when the really useful/crummy cards turn up, reducing menaces as you go. Sometimes deliberately opting for an obstacle for the points when you overcome it with the "uys" (see above).

    Like a few other side events, it does require a little practice and some skill and luck, but I played flash lays constantly during the election and did enjoy them. A wider range with better rewards would be nice.

    --
    No plant battles, please.
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
    +3 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/17/2015
    I like the Must cards in principle, but they have bad UX design -- the player doesn't know what's happening and as CALLNXW points out you could draw several at once, you could draw them while you're out of actions, etc.

    Must cards would work better if they simply disabled other cards when drawn -- not simply undiscardable (since all cards in Flash Lay are) but must-be-clicked, the other cards greyed out or covered up by a layer that's not clickable. They ought to be "you must click" as opposed to be "we clicked this for you when you weren't looking!" I think Jakob Nielsen is moaning in terror somewhere.

    On a similar note my impression is that alternate-deck experiences have to be of a certain minimum length in order to make it slightly hard to refill your main deck. This seems awkward to balance around... Since the player's Fifth City hand is now remembered would it really be that difficult to remember # of cards in deck?

    I tend to agree that the ending card ought to have a higher probabilty (maybe just Frequent if not Abundant?) and a 100-progress draw requirement, since there's the other card with the redirect and progress option that you can draw and strategically keep in your hand; they feel a bit redundant.
    edited by metasynthie on 12/17/2015

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +3 link
    annalibertas
    annalibertas
    Posts: 161

    9/19/2018
    Jack Cassius wrote:
    Furthermore, the only option I've had thus far to reduce my suspicion gave me Ruthless by way of exchange: hideously OOC for me, and not something I'd have chosen if I'd been given another choice.

    Flash Lays are literally your character impersonating someone else for the purpose of extorting a third party, if you consider ruthlessness to be OOC, I would suggest staying away from flash lays entirely

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anna%20Libertas
    Accepting all social actions & boxed cats

    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Julliah%20Randolph
    Alt, will accept all social actions whenever I log on
    +3 link
    Lestaroth
    Lestaroth
    Posts: 32

    11/14/2016
    Hello Delicious Friends,

    I ended my first session of Flash Lay and I have to say it has got its share of good, bad and unexplained parts.
    Having also successfully completed my first (maybe last) round of pickpocketing in the Alleys of Spite two days before, I will enthusiastically compare both.

    -Warning: Huge text wall. Please read slowly, carefully and without stress. Thank you-

    I must say foremost that there about never was any sense of danger in my Flash Lay, since I have tried the tier 1 one really late. I had completed many storylets and grinded like a nutty during my first month here in Fallen London.
    ...And so, my base stats were already high... nearing, if not slightly over 80 (about 100 with equipment).
    I had also zero menaces, thanks to the ones describing their experience here.
    ~Thank you fellow Fallen Londoners, your sacrifice will not be in vain~

    The Flash Lay is really like the pickpocketing instance, but it does rely on stats for certain actions.
    The trickier ones left me with a very modest challenge still, while the safe options were totally straightforward. It was just a matter of me being not too greedy, or quite lucky, with two gambles which always ended in my favor (I wish I was as fortunate as this on the dream/companion gamble cards in the regular deck).

    Was I overpowered? This is to know. I still don't know if the Flash Lay system adapts to one's level, it would be great if it was.
    There is also no need to think about destination or unseen stats... yet it can drag for a while.
    I had easy cards, some were repeated. I liked that you can draw cards without waiting...
    But again, the draws were synchronized with the action-getting, so it was not so much a change for me.
    Not being able to discard them is fair to avoid abuse, but then again, I didn't need to calculate so much on which were useless cards or not (I about used them all).
    I didn't use second chances.

    I was truly lucky there, I drew a Make Your Move: a Confessional Evening card in the middle of my session, I held dear to it.
    I got an Importunate Constable card at 67, I gladly had almost all of the Up Your Sleeve cards I needed. I only was stuck for a round then.

    Got rid of the extra menace the next turn (even if I took the easiest one to get rid of in normal ways), claimed the reward the one after.
    No prize packages to choose from (*shrugs*). No need to use actions to return to the main game (*happily nods*).
    I'll keep the items as curiosity until I will need them. Someday.
    Edit: Got flooded with opportunity cards upon exiting the Flash Lay. No actions left. How affectionate of the program. *skims through them*

    -In summary (a.k.a. tl;dr... but, but, I tried my best to be entertaining! QQ):-
    What I experienced:
    - Was already overpowered, I would have so much troubles if I tried it earlier;
    - I am grateful I read this part of the forums beforehand. Stabbing blindly (in the dark too) is so inconvenient while being in such special instances;
    - I prefer it over the pickpocketing one, less stressful, yet much longer if unlucky;

    My questions:
    - Why are there no consolation prizes for those failing it? Pickpocketing would be normal if you're arrested (unseen at zero), but here?
    - Do people failing on the Flash Lay get sent back to the usual Fallen London with menace levels unchanged?
    - Does the Flash Lay system adapt to the level of entry ?

    Thanks for reading, leave me feedback if needed, Delicious Friends!
    *Waves goodbye for now! Take care all!*
    edited by Lestaroth on 11/14/2016
    +2 link
    Monique Deja
    Monique Deja
    Posts: 37

    11/19/2016
    Dearest Fifth City Londoners,

    I am writing to you while trapped in the Flash Lay. I may never get out. Somewhere in the Neath I have my weekly wages waiting for me, and cherished messages from friends. If I don't make it out, I'd like to leave my Haunted Dog to the player who convinces them to change the format of this game so that it feels more like an exciting heist and less like a cage.

    I'm at progress 45, after several hours of life I won't get back. Should I continue or click that "abandon" button at the end? Oh, nevermind, I'm trapped in a menace card without an action...so all I can do is whinge here for the next ten minutes...

    So, how has the weather been in the dearest Fifth City? Damp? Putrid? Fungal? Sounds delightful. Murderous rats have moved into your lodgings, you say? Ah, what I wouldn't give to fight a rat right now. Oh yes, sure, I'd also love to take care of that unwanted admirer of yours who keeps following you around. Don't forget about me, London. I'll be back soon, I hope.

    --
    My profile: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Monique Deja
    +2 link
    Rostygold
    Rostygold
    Posts: 272

    4/5/2017
    Saklad wrote:
    Always try to get more Up Your Sleeve when given the option

    Think twice about this: consider the amount of progress that is still needed, versus the progress that can be gained from spending Up Your Sleeve on clearing Obstacles. Any Up Your Sleeve that is not spent at the end of a Flash Lay is completely wasted, so don't overstock.
    Saklad wrote:
    Don’t be afraid to remove Obstacles instead of turning them into Openings, but always do the latter when able.

    I used to do this, until I figured out that the Openings don't give benefits which are worth the Actions and additional Up Your Sleeve spent to get them. I would suggest removing Obstacles instead so that other cards can come up, and regaining Obstacles when enough Up Your Sleeve has been accumulated to absorb the appearance of one.
    +2 link
    fahrentiam
    fahrentiam
    Posts: 2

    5/16/2017
    I played through, and enjoyed, the Spirifer's Lay, but I do have a few critiques.

    • Incredibly action heavy, it took, I think, 30-35 of my 40 actions. This was partially due to luck being against me, I failed an astounding number of very high skill checks, but still, it most likely would have taken a non-exceptional friend user several hours to do simply because of the amount of actions needed.
    • Felt quite disconnected from the rest of Fallen London, there could have been some tie-ins from your acquaintances or actions, for example, in the Spirifer's Lay, if you were a character with a high Connected: Hell quality then there would be an opportunity to use your knowledge to persuade the Spirifer more. Not sure how you would implement, but still seems like an area for possible expansion.
    • The differences between the two seem very wide, 50 and 125? It seems like it might be better to have a middle option, my skills are a little lacking to attempt the Auditor, but then the majority of the checks in the Spirifer were Straightforward and usually in the 80-90% range. Maybe having there to be a middle option, 50, 80-90, and 125, would make there be less of a large skill gap.

    Overall I really enjoyed it, I like the separate location and deck, but it seemed like some things could have been implemented better.
    +2 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1387

    9/16/2018
    Well... while I certainly understand the frustration, I will play Devil's advocate a bit. The Lays are punishing, true, but it is nice to have content that is actually challenging for high level players. You can take a great risk, and walk away richer than before, all the way feeling more suspense than usually which is what a conman would feel.
    However... to make it worthwile the rewards should be much, much higher. If I can easily make echoes through Heists and Expeditions, not to mention other carousels, the very difficult Flash Lay which takes up almost ALL of my 40 actions should be at least more rewarding than them. Why play less for less reward? It is not even lore-rich or particuarly atmospheric.
    However, with increased rewards and different texts, the core mechanic does replicate a long con (time consuming, suspensful, dangerous) well enough. If it was profitable, I am sure more people would risk it daily.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +2 link
    Proven Paradox
    Proven Paradox
    Posts: 2

    11/11/2016
    As things are now, I -really- dislike this format.

    I'm not fond of losing so many actions with zero reward because of an unlucky dice roll. I went into that with a lot of scandal not knowing that just two losses would end the run while more than a dozen successes were required to win. As-is, this is a trap. Make it clear *before* players begin that hitting 5 menaces means that they will end the caper with *zero* rewards.

    Meanwhile, there was no actual story on the way. At least, up to 30 progress. I got a lot of repeat cards that weren't that interesting to begin with, and it was still unclear to me what my actual goal was in this fiasco. Either cut the grind required in half, or give me something actually interesting to read during said grind. Right now this is a showcase of the absolute worst aspects of Fallen London.

    I will do this again once the weekly menace reset comes to see if the rewards are worth the risk, but first impressions leave me feeling -really- bitter.
    +2 link
    Jermaine Vendredi
    Jermaine Vendredi
    Posts: 528

    7/6/2016
    The main issue for me has always been failure of the ending card to appear, meaning that I've had to prolong the lay by 25% to finish in roughly three quarter of cases.

    --
    No plant battles, please.
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
    +2 link
    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2306

    3/24/2016
    absimiliard wrote:
    I entirely missed that moods were a hat.

    Blast.

    No wonder my recent novel-writing spree didn't seem to have any change in the percentages for success......


    I missed it too. I actually submitted my failure to get any benefit from a Mood card as a bug! The return message from FBG was 'you need to equip it'. Only after that did I do digging and find out that it acts like a hat. (And I'm not by any means a new player, either. Ouch.)

    --
    Cathy Raymond
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

    Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
    +2 link
    Mizadil
    Mizadil
    Posts: 49

    3/8/2016
    I just tried it for the first time, and noticed two things:

    The explanatory choices cost actions. Since that is not the case elsewhere in Fallen London, I assume it to be an oversight.

    For those who do their best to play spoiler-free, as I do, a more differentiated description of choices than "significant" == "more than 5" would be in order. The few options that have a progress potential of 25 deserve a different adjective than those offering 7 progress.

    --
    Mizadil :: http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Mizadil

    :: A Paramount Presence ::
    Correspondent :: "Never too busy to help educate your orphans."
    I always have time for a game of chess, and will reciprocate Neath's Mysteries.
    +2 link
    dov
    dov
    Posts: 2537

    12/19/2015
    NiteBrite,

    It took me exactly 30 actions, on the difficult path (started with no menaces, capped stats - though I did *not* bother to equip maximizing Persuasive gear). I didn't even know I was supposed to get to 100 Progress and just fumbled along semi arbitrarily, trying to sample all options, never using second chances.

    I got lucky by finding the exit card just before I hit 100 Progress. As you can see in this thread, some others were not so lucky and had to wait a lot for the exit card.

    So, it's definitely possible to do in under 40 actions, unless you get really bad luck. If you just want to quickly sample the mechanics and text (and not maximize rewards, necessarily) perhaps you should try the easy path, where you probably won't fail challenges. Try to start without menaces.

    --
    Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
    (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
    +2 link
    Nibelethe
    Nibelethe
    Posts: 7

    1/6/2016
    I've played through the Spirifer option and quite enjoyed it. It was fun having a long mini-game but the game wasn't kidding on the recommended levels. At only 44 Persuasive it took me over three candles to succeed at the Flash Lay.

    Like Brass Lion, I did feel like some of the cards were a bit generic and I did occasionally forget what character I was meant to be conning. I also wasn't that keen on having obstacles already included beforehand. Especially as I really liked the Inopportune Constable story but didn't get an intro to them until my progress was about twenty despite having my decisions already restricted by their presence. As this takes a lot of turns, I think it'd probably work if you didn't start with any obstacles and you came across them as you went.

    All in all, it was fun and helped me level up my Persuasive.

    --
    The stars were close enough to almost touch...

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Nibelethe
    +2 link
    Psyche Labyrinth
    Psyche Labyrinth
    Posts: 159

    1/20/2016
    I love minigames like this! I spent quite a while doing pickpocket's promenade and, while it is still fun for me, I've leveled out of it quite a bit. The opportunity to choose which challenge to do on this game is wonderful! And I love ow it uses menaces instead of distance/attracting attention (or whatever those qualities are called) as you can reduce them without a luck check- I'm always failing those.

    --
    Neath citizen, zee captain, possible deranged serial killer...
    Profile
    Backstory
    Appearance
    Always happy to meet new people and help out where I can!
    +2 link
    Kittenpox
    Kittenpox
    Posts: 866

    1/21/2016
    I'm sorry if this has already been asked/answered, but I haven't read this thread as I wanted to avoid spoilers before going into this for the first time (I've been busy and hadn't taken the opportunity to try these yet.)

    Are the Flash Lays only available for a period of time - like, do I need to rush and get them done before a certain date? Or will they be around for a while yet?
    edited by Kittenpox on 1/21/2016

    --
    Kittenpox
    Current [Fabulous Diamond] count: Twenty-Five (of 50). Halfway there! ^_^
    Metaphysical Caprice: 11.
    -
    Currently: Returned to the Neath, and regaining my footing in this place. :-)
    NO PLANT BATTLES PLEASE.
    +2 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    1/21/2016
    This is permanent content, no worries. Leave it long enough and it might get rebalanced/revised in response to all the feedback, but the content and basic mechanics will still be there to explore.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
    Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

    Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
    +2 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/24/2015
    Managed to finish the easier Flash Lay today in 17 actions, which I believe is the minimum (including the actions needed to start and finish.) That's around 1.12 EPA for the Spirifer and 2.94 EPA for the Auditor -- but you'd have to be very lucky to finish the Auditor in 17 actions, just due to the very difficult skill checks that give 7 Progress. If I'm not mistaken, I think the options that give Up Your Sleeve and then cash it in for 25 progress are easier -- which makes mixing those in a little more attractive.

    The Opening cards, however, continue to be perplexingly bad... since they cost 8 Up Your Sleeve (4 actions minimum) to add to your deck and don't help that much. I mean -- those might be relevant if you were playing this deck for twice or three times as long, or if the frequency were higher? But at this frequency and given how long it takes to get them, they need a boost.

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +2 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/26/2015
    Flash Lays are definitely more gamble than grind, and I wouldn't expect those who can't stomach gambles to play it more than once -- but the game does need more varieties of gamble than just the basic "push your luck" Fidgeting Writer, plus it's nice that Flash Lays are readily accessible and level-adjustable, unlike say, Polythreme.

    Heists are an interesting midpoint between gamble and grind, come to think of it.

    If you get good at doing the Flash Lay, you can definitely do it in ~20-22 actions. Factoring in the use of second chances for the really hard challenges, and I'm guessing you could eke an average of 1.9 EPA from this activity with a sound strategy. That's one reason to do it; the other are that it might be a faster source than some of the rewards than other methods (I haven't checked yet, but it's obviously true of Queer Souls, at least).

    But yeah, I think the biggest balance problems is that there's something off about the frequency of the exit cards. One of them seems to have the same frequency throughout, and the other (the "real one" I think) starts getting more frequent about 75 progress or so. But I'm not totally sure. Trying to keep one in hand late in the game while also avoiding every 3-progress choice is part of the strategic fun; another good note is that it's actually GOOD to stick more Obstacles in your deck early on, especially if you've gathered at least a bit of Sleeve. You have to think about managing your Sleeve just as much as your rate of Progress, which is a nice bit of design.

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +2 link
    Kolanowski
    Kolanowski
    Posts: 148

    12/21/2015
    Chris Gardiner wrote:
    I've added an always-available storylet allowing you to abandon the Flash Lay as long as you have at least 25 Progress.



    Bless you.
    edited by Kolanowski on 12/21/2015

    --
    Kazimierz Kolanowski, gentleman, scholar, humble servant of the Maw. Chaotic Evil. Open to all social actions & accepting almost all requests. Might sell you to Satan for a single corn chip.
    +2 link
    Estelle Knoht
    Estelle Knoht
    Posts: 1751

    12/17/2015
    babelfishwars wrote:
    The Duke of Waltham wrote:

    Normally yes, but Clarence is no more a character than George of Doubt Street. These are just snippets, dialogue taken from life as opposed to the Roman à clef style the rest of the game uses (no doubt to keep things simple and generic for the players rather than to actually hide identities).


    Someone hasn't been playing every single Exceptional Friend story with slavish devotion. I'm disappointed in you. wink


    Hi, Clarence's Aunt!

    --
    Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
    I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
    +2 link
    thedeadlymoose
    thedeadlymoose
    Posts: 214

    12/18/2015
    Optimatum wrote:
    I believe that returning from the Nadir also refills your hand.


    As far as I can tell, pretty much all these areas now double the number of cards in your deck. So if you have zero cards waiting to be drawn, you still have zero, but if you have one, you get two. Two gets four, etc. (Up to your deck limit, six or ten for EF.)

    This counts for both going into these areas and coming back to London.

    I hope this is intended behavior because it really is quite fantastic.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Eris~Jay
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Red~Rose
    +2 link
    Infrasound
    Infrasound
    Posts: 6

    12/18/2015
    The Duke of Waltham wrote:
    I wrote the above without having read the preceding post, though I cannot say I understood that explanation very well.



    My apologies, my brain's a bit scattered at the moment with exams, and I hadn't been up for very long when I posted that. Let me give it another shot.

    If you have the two cards in hand, there are five options:
    • Perhaps Not on A Confessional Evening does nothing.
    • Immediately using Perhaps Not on Time Draws Near does nothing.
    • Using the redirect on Time Draws Near, then using Perhaps Not leaves you with just one card, A Confessional Evening (as the Duke and naavcha both say).
    • Using the redirect on Time Draws Near, then playing the Up Your Sleeve option uses up both cards (as navchaa explained originally, and I experienced on my first playthrough).
    • Playing the Up Your Sleeve option on A Confessional Evening without touching Time Draws Near leaves you with the Time Draws Near card.

    If you don't have A Confessional Evening, and you use the redirect on Time Draws Near then Perhaps Not, you left with A Confessional Evening.


    As for an explanation, a recent(ish) patch made it so most cards with redirects leave you with the card you redirected to. This is good for cards that loop to themselves like Slowcake's Amanuensis as you can Perhaps Not without losing them, as well as other cards with redirects such as An Implausible Penance. You can never have two of the same card, so if you would have two, it removes one copy of it. So, if you have both A Confessional Evening and Time Draws Near, and play the redirect on Time Draws Near, you now have two copies of A Confessional Evening. The game notices this and removes one of them (though this isn't obvious if you don't Perhaps Not). That means that when you then go on to use the Up Your Sleeve option, you use up your last card.

    --
    Stuck in a well.
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Infrasound
    +2 link
    Kaigen
    Kaigen
    Posts: 528

    12/18/2015
    thedeadlymoose wrote:
    Optimatum wrote:
    I believe that returning from the Nadir also refills your hand.


    As far as I can tell, pretty much all these areas now double the number of cards in your deck. So if you have zero cards waiting to be drawn, you still have zero, but if you have one, you get two. Two gets four, etc. (Up to your deck limit, six or ten for EF.)

    This counts for both going into these areas and coming back to London.

    I hope this is intended behavior because it really is quite fantastic.
    Based on the response to my report of it, it sounds like this is not intended behavior, but rather an unintended side-effect of the recent revamp of the opportunity timer that is on the docket to be fixed. So if you want to take advantage of this by running lots of heists/flash lays/etc., now is the time.

    --
    Just a simple doctor with a chess habit. Publisher of The Flit Dispatch.

    "One must remember that the impossible is, alas, always possible."
    -Jacques Derrida
    +2 link
    Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
    Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
    Posts: 1368

    12/18/2015
    Lisbella Peridot wrote:
    Can you truly take advantage of that? A heist/flash lays take dozens of actions to complete. I don't even have EF myself, but I can't see EF able to make good use of cards after a long venture.

    Heists can take as little as 4 actions once you're inside.

    --
    Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!

    Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
    +2 link
    Samuel Perryman
    Samuel Perryman
    Posts: 14

    12/18/2015
    I liked exploring the flash lay, although there was one thing that I thought could be improved. I had gotten my progress to 92 when my suspicion hit 5 and then I got stuck in the storylet that gives you the option to use some Up Your Sleeve or abandon the flash lay. Even using the five Up Your Sleeve required, I still wasn't able to lower my suspicion enough and had to abandon. That was a little frustrating since I didn't know what kind of threshold I was working with. Maybe add a "If any of your menaces reach 5, bad things may happen..." sort of warning. It just felt like the danger of menaces was too vague. Otherwise it was a great little adventure, especially for a more late-game player.

    Upon a second go, the different approaches to playing became more clear; however, even at a slow pace I did not find enough time to make use of any openings. Still the new mechanics are certainly fun, and made me rethink the way I prepared for a card pull.
    edited by Samuel Perryman on 12/19/2015

    --
    Samuel Perryman A Correspondent and a patriot, seeking to bring London to a new Neathy Empire. An Extraordinary Mind accepting new proteges.

    Cecil Palmer Wait... Where is my radio?
    +2 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    12/19/2015
    The Spirifer run is pretty much the same as the Auditor one, so if your stats aren't capped or near-capped you could give that a go. I'm pretty sure I did that under 40 actions as well, though I wasn't keeping careful count.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
    Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

    Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
    +2 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/16/2015
    Seems like a good use of Confident Smiles, which are a little easier to come by than other second chances! If it's ~30 actions for 50 echoes, that's slightly better than Affair of the Box, but probably quite a bit more random (as it should be so as not to just "replace" that straightforward grind.) When all the possibilities are recorded, someone enterprising can do the math similar to the great guide I saw somewhere for the Crowds of Spite and the lucky/unlucky # of actions can be determined. Hurrah for sub-games with non-obvious EPA!

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +2 link
    Jeremy Avalon
    Jeremy Avalon
    Posts: 352

    12/16/2015
    Robin Mask wrote:
    metasynthie wrote:
    I like it! I'm more and more in favor of these alternate-deck areas. Flash Lays do seem to be extraordinarily action-heavy, and although I suspect it's a matter of getting the right cards in the right order, and that larger lodgings are beneficial, there's probably not much one can do to affect the randomness other than keeping menaces low. The good "shortcuts" seem to involve turning obstacles into progress by having enough Up Your Sleeve -- I haven't had a Flash Lay last long enough yet to actually figure out what the transformed obstacles (Corrupt Constable, Ring of Duplicate Keys, Informant) are good for. They'd have to be quite good considering how many actions it takes to earn one!


    Added to that, I'm not sure whether this is a bug or intentional, but I can only draw three cards, too, despite having a four-card lodgings :-S



    Given that Zee now forces a three-card pool regardless of lodgings, and previous comments indicating a similar change is under consideration for Heists, I would guess this is intentional.

  • edited by Jeremy Avalon on 12/16/2015

    --
    The Licentious Ludologist, a delightful gentleman of indiscriminate and eternal appetites.

    My Guide to Notability, Making Waves, and BDR

    Rigor Mortis, a web comic about three little undead girls and their search for friendship and decent Wi-Fi in Hell. If you like the more comedic and humane side of FL, you might like it.
  • +2 link
    Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
    Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
    Posts: 1368

    12/16/2015
    Notes as I go through:

    I would like to know how _much_ Progress I need to complete a mission, before drawing the card that tells me (it's 100 for the harder one). Also 100 progress feels pretty long.

    I'm super-grateful for the outfit switchers, now!

    (Hmm, this may have been fixed already, since one of them has vanished, but I'll leave it in just in case: Is "Make your Move: the Time Draws Near" supposed to (a) be drawable when you have "Make your Move: A Confessional Evening" in your hand, and (b) then just redirect to "Make your Move: A Confessional Evening"? Because that seems confusing and also deck-cluttering.)

    Now that I'm done: I think it's cool -- glad to see mechanics from Flint making it out into the wider world -- but I have to be in the right mood to be away from the Fifth City for a big chunk of time, so I probably won't be replaying this a ton.

    --
    Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!

    Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
    +2 link
    James Sinclair
    James Sinclair
    Posts: 226

    12/18/2015
    I just finished both of the available Flash Lays, and enjoyed them immensely. Cool Here are my thoughts:

    The Good: smile
    • I particularly liked that there was a more challenging path for late-game players; I had several highly amusing failures on the Auditor route.
    • The unique reward gained from the Spirifer route was also a pleasant surprise.
    • My favorite part of this is all the new opportunity cards in a brand-new deck. What fun!
    • The auto-firing Obstacle and Menace cards introduce a new element of suspense and danger, and how you could remove or convert cards under if the correct requirements were met.

    The Less Good: wink
    • Being restricted to a three-card hand while in a Flash Lay; as with the new zee-travel three-card hand, it makes getting the four- and five-card lodgings less useful. The Flash Lay deck in particular auto-draws Obstacles, so having a larger hand wouldn't provide an overwhelming advantage anyway.
    • Also, as Sara Hysaro noted above, it would make more sense to have the hand clear between Flash Lays (and between zee voyages, for that matter).
    • There are two 'Make Your Move' cards ('The Time Draws Near' and 'A Confessional Evening'). As far as I can tell, they are identical except that 'The Time Draws Near' has an additional zero-action choice that has no other effects.

    Thanks very much to FBG for all the exciting new content.

    --
    James Sinclair

    Curator of the Sanguine Ribbon Society 🗡

    A fully-fledged rêveur of The Night Circus.

    Wines is red
    Spices is yellow
    But old Jack-of-Smiles
    Is a murderous fellow
    +2 link
    Estelle Knoht
    Estelle Knoht
    Posts: 1751

    12/17/2015
    First thought:

    I must've logged in Below by accident.

    Second thought:

    Oh wait, Chris Gardiner posted the news.

    Third thought:

    The obstacles could use some work. As of now it is not really worth the effort to turn them into beneficial openings since it take so much work yet it is very possible you just can't draw the Opening until you finished it.

    Four thought:

    Up the Sleeves could use a better description than "Asset for Flash Lay".

    --
    Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
    I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
    +2 link
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Posts: 725

    12/17/2015
    I just played though the Avid Auditor. How delightful! I thought the mechanics worked well (there are enough "things" to acquire and shed--informants and obstacles, for example--that it doesn't feel -too- grindy), it was nice to see some moderate challenges at high stats, and the text was fun. And I have a very unhealthy interest in forbidden material; so that part was perfect!!

    I wasn't bothered by having to hit 100 progress, but I would have liked to know going in that it would take that long! Or at least have a hint. I would also recommend allowing players to back out part way through, even if it means the loss of all progress (or is that an option and I just missed it somehow?).

  • edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 12/17/2015


  • P. S. The variety of cards and the variety of actions on the cards is also a bonus. For long grinds like this variety is essential.
    edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 12/17/2015

    --
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
    Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
  • +2 link
    lady ciel
    lady ciel
    Posts: 2545

    12/17/2015
    I am playing this on an alt at the moment, I'm finding it difficult to get progress. Things that raise scandal or suspicion or Up your sleeve seem quite common though. I suppose that is part of the problem with having a lot of possible cards. The autofire obstacles are also quite annoying, especially as I don't seem to be getting much progress. Maybe the RNG just doesn't like me on this one.

    I don't know if it has been changed but it definitely said at the beginning that 100 progress was needed to complete this.

    I have also seen a number of different cards that would let me complete this if I had enough progress - but they seem to just give up your sleeve.

    Out of actions for now and I went in with over 30 actions upset

    --
    ciel

    Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.

    No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.

    storynexus name - reveurciel
    +2 link
    colinsapherson
    colinsapherson
    Posts: 190

    12/17/2015
    Estelle Knoht wrote:
    First thought:

    I must've logged in Below by accident.

    Second thought:

    Oh wait, Chris Gardiner posted the news.


    I agree that the Flash Lays have the Mark of Gardiner on them, but to me they feel less like Below and more like hunting in The Last Court. None of which is a bad thing – I feel that Chris has made the most interesting use of StoryNexus/Fallen London mechanics of anyone, and I see this as a good alternative to repetitive grinds.

    I would certainly go for something like this, with high reward value and variety, over a loop of the same five action types again and again and again. I want Cider some day, but I don’t want to be brain dead when I get there. So this is the kind of content for me.

    The 125 Shadowy Lay is long, possibly too long, but we do have a shorter alternative option and after the first time players will know what they’re getting themselves into. As said by others, lot of the issues people have might disappear if you can access other parts of the game more readily. I don’t see a reason why you wouldn’t be able to go to the Bazaar while building up a relationship with your Mark. Similarly, it would seem reasonable to be able to do other social actions while your Flash Lay is underway. The ability to leave early (for a cost) is a good one, though I realise that the impact it has on drawing opportunity cards may be unbalancing (when returning to London from a place with no draw limit, your opportunity deck is refilled to 10).

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Colin%20Sapherson%2c%20Lord%20President%20of%20the%20Council
    Available for Knife & Candle Moon League matches, Tournaments of lilies and other social actions (including boxed cats and photographers).
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Strangewheys~Wandering
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/RUSKIN~WARE
    +1 link
    CALLNXW
    CALLNXW
    Posts: 116

    12/17/2015
    Okay I finally unclogged myself at 160 progress.
    Pretty sure the rewards weren't worth it

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Call%20Now
    +1 link
    CALLNXW
    CALLNXW
    Posts: 116

    12/17/2015
    My biggest problem with the new content is that it's impossible to end at will. Unlike heists, card rarity doesn't change after hitting the goal, and so I'm stuck at 130 progress with no end in sight.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Call%20Now
    +1 link
    MadmanAtW
    MadmanAtW
    Posts: 231

    12/18/2015
    RandomWalker wrote:
    There's a curious bug, which I'm sure will be squashed post-haste, where the lay refreshes your deck when it's done. So if you clear your deck and do the lay, the deck will be replenished when you're done, even if you've only taken a few real-time minutes. I'll report it as a bug after work.


    I've reported this already, as it happens to me consistently when I come back from Zee (I went on a run to get a Plated Seal, got back to London about 4 minutes later, and had 10 new cards in my deck), and it happens sometimes when I emerge from parties. When I reported it about Zee, I was told it was intended behavior, surprising as that is.

    I encourage you to also make a report if you have not already, though, if nothing else to add weight to be it being unexpected behavior.

    As for the Lays, my main went into the harder one with about 30 actions, and has run out at 55 or so Progress, so... going to echo the feeling that it's too long for something you must complete before you can return to London.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Madman~Across~the~Water
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Xoricco
    Accepting any social actions except the Affluent Photographer. Would appreciate warning of dupings/betrayals/rats.
    +1 link
    Toper
    Toper
    Posts: 24

    12/18/2015
    I didn't interpret it as a bug, but I've noticed that you always begin a heist with twice as many cards as you had in London. Then returning to London seems to mostly or entirely fill your deck.
    +1 link
    navchaa
    navchaa
    Posts: 540

    12/18/2015
    I don't know if it's a bug or a feature with the "Make Your Move" cards.

    1. I had both in my hand and clicked on one (can't remember which) to gain Up Your Sleeve, but once the action was over, the other disappeared.

    2. I later had both in my hand again, and intended to test if both cards get consumed again. But when I perhaps notted out of "The Time Draws Near" card, which has an extra 0 action choice, the card disappeared. I guess this answers James Sinclair's question - you can lose the card.

    --
    Paramount Presence (London's Marrow 2, London's Nerves 2, London’s Sinew 3, London’s Blood 3) and mercenary Notary

    Married to Myrto :: Exchanging Surprise Packages with anyone interested :: Exchanging cat boxes with Kitty Rambunctious

    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/navchaa
    +1 link
    babelfishwars
    babelfishwars
    Administrator
    Posts: 1131

    12/17/2015
    The Duke of Waltham wrote:

    Normally yes, but Clarence is no more a character than George of Doubt Street. These are just snippets, dialogue taken from life as opposed to the Roman à clef style the rest of the game uses (no doubt to keep things simple and generic for the players rather than to actually hide identities).


    Someone hasn't been playing every single Exceptional Friend story with slavish devotion. I'm disappointed in you. wink
    edited by babelfishwars on 12/17/2015

    --
    Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
    +1 link
    EdwardLaneUK
    EdwardLaneUK
    Posts: 6

    12/17/2015
    Suggest unlocking a storylet - rather than a card when progress reaches 100+ as a means to avoid needing to draw a specific card, I'm currently waiting for a result - at 140 progress on my second run through, first time I got a card and hoarded it until I got enough progress.

    oh incidentally my stats are just around 110 and I'm only just reaching straightforward on the content that says 'needs 50 in the stats'
    +1 link
    RandomWalker
    RandomWalker
    Posts: 948

    12/17/2015
    Well, I've played through seven or eight tries with different alts and at both difficulty levels.

    Short answer for me: it's a nice mechanic and can be fun, but the EPA is well below the level necessary to make it worthwhile to visit more than twice. Each session takes me between 29 and 35 odd actions, depending on luck, and the reward just makes that below a useful value, particularly when factoring in clearing up menaces afterwards.

    There's a curious bug, which I'm sure will be squashed post-haste, where the lay refreshes your deck when it's done. So if you clear your deck and do the lay, the deck will be replenished when you're done, even if you've only taken a few real-time minutes. I'll report it as a bug after work.

    The duration doesn't bother me that much, although locking out the bazaar seems silly. The high number of solid menace cards is annoying - not just the auto-fires, but the card that gives measly progress or hurts your quirks, and the cards that just give measly progress for a high-difficulty challenge. In fact the auto-fires are desirable, once you have enough up your sleeve.

    Minor observation, but the reward card for converting the obstacle into an opportunity is rare, seems to self-destruct after one use, and just clogs the deck when you're aiming for completion. It takes so long to get enough 'up your sleeve' to do the conversion that the card is practically useless when it shows - you're better off spending your actions elsewhere.

    Overall, I love the concept of the long con. The game of deception and so on. I like a lot about the execution. It's just a bit frustrating, particularly towards the end, and from a grinding perspective, not worth the hassle of constantly changing outfits.
    +1 link
    RandomWalker
    RandomWalker
    Posts: 948

    12/16/2015
    An alt had a pretty smooth run at the spirifier, for practice. 35 echoes for 29 actions, and that was with no failures or bad card pulls. Then tried the harder one. First hand I drew contained two obstacle drawers, second hand drew one. Obviously had no chance of clearing the obstacles and so had to take a hit.

    Withholding judgement so far.
    +1 link
    Kylestien
    Kylestien
    Posts: 734

    12/16/2015
    I enjoyed it. Good challenges, good rewards for the 125 one (I think, I'd need some people to confirm) a lot of fun. I don't know what the 50 one is like with rewards though I am curious. I will say though: I started with 40 actions and (partly due to my picking the lowest options to raise my stats) ended with none.
    edited by Kylestien on 12/16/2015

    --
    I will accept all actions, though I hold the right to refuse for my own reasons. However, if you explain WHY you send me a harmful action like Loitering or Dantes,And I feel the reason good, I will consider it more. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kylestien

    Persuasive patron. You want a lesson, send me a message asking for one.
    +1 link
    Lisbella Peridot
    Lisbella Peridot
    Posts: 138

    12/16/2015
    There are names in this content! I saw the name Clarence, which is surprising. Isn't characters usually (the adjective + noun)?

    --
    Anatasia Swansong - fencing prodigy, extraordinary beauty, and very stubborn
    Welcoming friends of all sorts! All independent now.

    Kelly Siniature - grinning, deranged, elegant child of indistinct gender
    Kelly is taking a long break on isolation.

    I also play Town of Salem and a few other games - still Lisbella Peridot!
    I finally regained stable internet access, so I should be around more often...
    +1 link
    Sestina Valdis
    Sestina Valdis
    Posts: 210

    12/16/2015
    Thank you; this was a fun way to up the two stats that I am currently still working on (i.e. Shadowy and Watchful)... Some of the challenges on the second Flash Lay are off the charts, though! (Even with 200+30 persuasive, one only had a 66% chance of success. ._.)
    edited by Sestina Valdis on 12/16/2015

    --
    Sestina Valdis, the Saccharine Satirist.
    Appearance and Misc. Accoutrements
    A Past Scattered Across Discarded Stockings

    Fei Xue, the Artful Assassin.
    Self

    Edward de Riere, the Barebones Baron.

    Avatar by Daniel Ilinca.
    +1 link
    Pyrodinium
    Pyrodinium
    Posts: 639

    12/16/2015
    It's hard but enjoyable. 100 progress is a bit too long though and I'm still at ~30 progress.

    Are you planning on doing a Watchful and Dangerous version too? That would be great smile

    UPDATE:
    Finally finished the venture. The mini-game was nice and engaging. However, it was too long. If I'm not mistaken, I burned ~35-40 actions for it.
    edited by Pyrodinium on 12/17/2015

    --
    My profiles: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Pyrodinium
    (A Monster hunter on the hunt of his twin brother's killer. Overprotective dad of his twin's daughter)
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Rudolph~of~Taured
    (an indeterminate person of potentially rubbery lineage)
    * All social actions except photographers and loitering welcome!
    +1 link
    penknife
    penknife
    Posts: 85

    12/16/2015
    I did the second Flash Lay in 31 actions; that's not bad for a 50-Echo reward. It certainly feels less grindy than the Affair of the Box, although that may just be lack of familiarity. I agree that having the new outfits feature makes this much more enjoyable; I'm not sure it would feel worth the trouble to switch back and forth between my Persuasive, Shadowy, and Watchful gear if I had to change every item by hand. (Are there no cards that involve Dangerous checks? Or did I just happen not to draw one?)

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Penknife
    Most social actions welcome, no SMEN or Boxed Cats please.
    +1 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/16/2015
    I like it! I'm more and more in favor of these alternate-deck areas. Flash Lays do seem to be extraordinarily action-heavy, and although I suspect it's a matter of getting the right cards in the right order, and that larger lodgings are beneficial, there's probably not much one can do to affect the randomness other than keeping menaces low. The good "shortcuts" seem to involve turning obstacles into progress by having enough Up Your Sleeve -- I haven't had a Flash Lay last long enough yet to actually figure out what the transformed obstacles (Corrupt Constable, Ring of Duplicate Keys, Informant) are good for. They'd have to be quite good considering how many actions it takes to earn one!

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +1 link
    Gleam
    Gleam
    Posts: 5

    12/17/2015
    It seems like the intended way to progress quickly is to build up Up Your Sleeve quality, and then turn the autofire Obstacle cards into big Progress gains or useful Opportunities. Its interesting, but there could be more clairity: the A Polite Invitation gives good instructions, I think. Or maybe the party is just very simple to understand.

    Maybe more feedback after I play through it a few times.
    +1 link
    shapjul
    shapjul
    Posts: 48

    12/17/2015
    And here I thought I was just a bumbling ignoramus when in fact it was actually new content! I liked it. Like others I have stats in the middle and I took the easier course. It took me a bit to http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hepzibah~Gordon~figure it out--doesn't everything. But I did. And enjoyed it. Was shocked by the cards that just flat out activate. I think that's a great innovation. I look forward to trying it again, perhaps a tad more deliberately.

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hepzibah~Gordon~
    +1 link
    NiteBrite
    NiteBrite
    Posts: 1014

    12/19/2015
    an_ocelot wrote:
    NiteBrite, I'm pretty sure I took less than 40, but I had ~250 Persuasive, and I don't know where your stat rebuilding project is at.

    Is that for the harder version or the less hard version?

    [spoiler]And thanks for your concern about my stats. I was able to rebuild them within about a year of SMEN ending, since there was nothing actively draining them anymore at that point. That's when I started grinding to try and get 7 crimson books this year (time sensitive grind). I just need to convert my last 20 tears into M______B____'s and I'll be set. I'm also trying to grind out about ~33 pails of lacre if I have time before the urchins stop selling them (also time sensitive).[/spoiler]
    EDIT: Thanks for the clarification Sara.
    edited by NiteBrite on 12/19/2015

    --
    I AM currently accepting calling cards.
    Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
    [00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
    Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
    +1 link
    NiteBrite
    NiteBrite
    Posts: 1014

    12/19/2015
    I really want to try the flash lay, it sounds exciting. I'm a bit committed to a few deadline intensive impossible grinds though and don't know if I can spare more than an EF candle's worth of actions on diversions from the grind at this time.

    Does anyone know about how many actions these take roughly? If its less than 40 I may have to give in to the temptation and give it a go. I saw it being compared to the Last Court hunts, and I see that as a very favorable, very alluring recommendation.

    --
    I AM currently accepting calling cards.
    Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
    [00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
    Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
    +1 link
    Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
    Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
    Posts: 1368

    12/19/2015
    NiteBrite, I'm pretty sure I took less than 40, but I had ~250 Persuasive, and I don't know where your stat rebuilding project is at.

    --
    Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!

    Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
    +1 link
    Ian Hart
    Ian Hart
    Posts: 433

    12/18/2015
    I'm very curious about the mechanics behind the difficulty adjustment. I tried the easy Flash Lay first, and then the harder one. When I entered the harder one I still had some cards left in my hand from the easy one, but their difficulty had jumped from straightforward to chancy!

    I don't see any lock/unlock qualities on the options, is it some sort of variable in the skill check itself? Not a feature that is in StoryNexus, as far as I can tell, which is a shame, it has all sorts of potential.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity
    +1 link
    RandomWalker
    RandomWalker
    Posts: 948

    12/18/2015
    Lisbella Peridot wrote:

    Can you truly take advantage of that? A heist/flash lays take dozens of actions to complete. I don't even have EF myself, but I can't see EF able to make good use of cards after a long venture.



    Yes, actually. With reasonable luck, anyway. If you have 40 actions, you can go through your deck and say have 30-35 actions left, do the flash lay (29-35+ actions, if you do the easier option), and still have actions left to go through your deck again. It's not very efficient, but if your main priority is pulling a certain card then it would effectively give you 10 more cards in the day then you would have otherwise. Admittedly it would cost you in menaces, and poor EPA, but if pulling cards was what you wanted to focus on, then it might work out.

    I admit that it's a pretty unusual edge-case, but eh.
    +1 link
    Gonen
    Gonen
    Posts: 817

    12/18/2015
    Well, THAT was frustrating.
    Hadn't read the forum for the last 12 hours, so did not see that coming.
    Had 98 progress, after 24 actions, 6 second chances, and menaces that are here to stay - I had FAILED the Lay. Did you know one can fail at this?
    Very frustrating, not knowing that could happen. Not knowing one should keep menaces under a certain value (under 5 scandal at the harder Flash Lay).
    The flit heists have instructions and one knows to keep his Cat value at one or above. But on Flash Lay, letting the player find out on his own that he can fail, after a loss of so many actions, is not good experience....
    Perhaps I missed the warning at the beginning? Was there? If so - my full responsibility! But if not, that just leaves a bad taste...
    It feels like, well... a trap. So many actions lost when the rules are hidden.
    I'm in a mentality right now of "cutting my loses" and avoiding investment in more actions in the Flash Lay. Which is a shame. I know you really put time and effort on this content. Even when I now know this menace restriction, and can play to avoid it, I rather just continue elsewhere to invest my actions. Silly, and psychological, I know. But that disappointment is real and could, maybe, keep others from playing this content when losing a Flash without proper warning after investing actions and second chances.
    Hope I have explained myself. Thank you for the new content, even so.

    ADDITION: Would really like to know if I was careless by not reading the instructions on beginning of the Lay. Knowing that I just missed it could lighten that frustration.
    edited by Gonen on 12/18/2015

    --
    The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.

    The long journey to eccentricity:
    On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
    +1 link
    The Duke of Waltham
    The Duke of Waltham
    Posts: 150

    12/18/2015
    Well, that was fun. My second Flash Lay (and first try at the Auditor) ended unceremoniously at around 80 progress owing to high Scandal. Had I known that before, I'd have tried harder to reduce my menaces before I impatiently started it; as it was, I entered with Scandal close to 3 because that was the lowest I could take it by going to church.

    Gonen wrote:
    Would really like to know if I was careless by not reading the instructions on beginning of the Lay. Knowing that I just missed it could lighten that frustration.

    I recall there were no instructions about menaces at the beginning, or indeed any kind of instructions at all; even the note about the level of progress one must reach was added later, at the request of players posting here. This is experimental content and therefore we are its testers:

    Chris Gardiner wrote:
    I chose not to add an instructional storylet, because I wanted to see how well people got to grips with the mechanics without one (pretty well, it turns out!). We may add one (depending on feedback), but this way, we get to see which elements are most unclear.


    --
    The Duke of Waltham welcomes requests for assistance from those troubled by menaces, and His Grace's townhouse is always open to visitors who will not attempt to steal the silverware or extract support for yet another ill-advised scheme concerning photographers.

    H. Cartwright, secretary.
    +1 link
    Gonen
    Gonen
    Posts: 817

    12/18/2015
    I recall there were no instructions about menaces at the beginning, or indeed any kind of instructions at all; even the note about the level of progress one must reach was added later, at the request of players posting here. This is experimental content and therefore we are its testers:

    Chris Gardiner wrote:
    I chose not to add an instructional storylet, because I wanted to see how well people got to grips with the mechanics without one (pretty well, it turns out!). We may add one (depending on feedback), but this way, we get to see which elements are most unclear.


    Yes, I understood that they wanted us to explore on our own. Though when investing in so many actions, 2nd chances and later on, cleaning high menaces... Well, I'm having a hard time accepting the punish of such an investment just because one needs to find the rules on one's own. Even the shorter Heist instructs on the failure option. 5 scandal was not a big deal until now, so never had I suspected that achieving "merely" 5 scandal can kick me out.
    Imagine the other 90% of players who don't read the forum and finds out the hard way.

    Also: Sorry, I hope i'm not triggering "admins alert" when quoting Chris with the orange color. Don't know how to convert it to white.
    edited by Gonen on 12/18/2015

    --
    The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.

    The long journey to eccentricity:
    On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
    +1 link
    Suhe Gul
    Suhe Gul
    Posts: 200

    12/18/2015
    Well, I found out myself that you can finish the lay early without any reward when I got suspicion lvl5 because I was being so careless.Eventhough I spent ton of actions, I am not too upset.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/suhe%20gul
    I am open to social actions except affluent photographer and loitering.
    Correspondent and willing to make orphanage calls.
    Want a sip of cider? http://community.failbettergames.com/topic20425-want-a-sip-of-hesperidean-cider-heres-how.aspx
    +1 link
    The Duke of Waltham
    The Duke of Waltham
    Posts: 150

    12/18/2015
    Well. I was on one of those Automatic Self-launching Obstacle Cards™ ("a true miracle of clockwork technology", according to Popular Mechanics), and my chances for turning it into an Opening being less than encouraging, I decided to try out that trick with the second chance where you back out before the second action. Normally one loses a card that way (which is exactly what happened the first time I had tried that trick, with an Unsigned Message no less), but these cards cannot be discarded, so I thought it would be interesting either way.

    The funny thing happened after I clicked on "Perhaps not" and was taken back to the card, only this time the branch I had chosen was the only one visible, and the option to use a second chance was no longer available. All I could do was repeat the action (and lose). I don't mind the intention behind this, having no trouble with the idea that second chances could be just that (and being unaware of the trick until fairly recently), but one does wonder whether it might not be easier to just remove the "Perhaps not" in those cases (and one guesses it would be unexpectedly and excruciatingly hard for some obscure reason).

    --
    The Duke of Waltham welcomes requests for assistance from those troubled by menaces, and His Grace's townhouse is always open to visitors who will not attempt to steal the silverware or extract support for yet another ill-advised scheme concerning photographers.

    H. Cartwright, secretary.
    +1 link
    Infrasound
    Infrasound
    Posts: 6

    12/18/2015
    navchaa wrote:
    1. I had both in my hand and clicked on one (can't remember which) to gain Up Your Sleeve, but once the action was over, the other disappeared.

    Had a very frustrating first run where the same thing happened to me, whilst I was at 95 progress. I immediately hit 100+ progress immediately after, but after a very long string of menaces and more progress cards, it eventually kicked me out for having my scandal too high, at about 130 progress >.> I'm sat back in London now with 40 less actions and nothing to show for it but a bunch of menaces! At a guess, this bug(?) happens because the 0 action choice links to the other card. I assume that the game doesn't think of it as a specific card, but as a storylet in general, so by taking an action, it clears your hand of the storylet, which is now both cards. Similarly, you're not meant to be able to have two of the same card in your hand, which is probably why it disappears with the perhaps not. This doesn't really have the chance to happen in London (maybe if you choose an option on An Implausible Penance and then perhaps not, and then pick the same option the next time you draw the card?).

    So yeah, little bit annoyed, but my thoughts generally echo everyone else's. Seems like a really interesting concept, but the sheer number of actions required seems too high. Would like to be able to leave as soon as I hit 100 progress. Little bit disappointed with the Steadfast cards spending the quirk and lacking any other reasonable option - people with 12+ Steadfast clearly have a trustworthy relationship to call upon, but don't want to be spending it (though I recognise that the game isn't designed around keeping high quirks, so I suppose this is just a personal gripe).

    Hope to see some refinements, because I can see it being content I play regularly if it isn't so frustrating.

    EDIT: After getting that off my chest, I decided to start another attempt. I can confirm that using the card without the 0 action choice allows you to keep the other one. Sadly, this run looks like it's going to go the same way as the first, with my scandal already very high at only 50 progress. I do find the menace balancing interesting, but I wish the penalty for failure wasn't quite so harsh.
    edited by Infrasound on 12/18/2015

    --
    Stuck in a well.
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Infrasound
    +1 link
    Siana
    Siana
    Posts: 26

    12/17/2015
    I've just completed my first Flash Lay - the one with the Spirifer. The rewards were lovely and I enjoyed the writing very much in this one (as always!), but at the same time, it felt long for me. Basically, it was lots of twos and threes and occasional sevens until the very end, where I lucked out and drew one card that had the substantial opening and bumped me up just enough to complete the Flash Lay. I think altogether it around 40 - 50 on my part? Just for the lower-requirement one too!

    However, I got the card that let me leave in the first few draws, so I kept it in my hand until I'd built up the progress, and as a result could leave when I had obtained the progress I needed. I think I'll try the Auditor one next, after I've refilled my actions and had a good night's sleep, but definitely agreeing that the amount of progress needs to be reduced.
    edited by Siana on 12/20/2015

    --
    Siana, the reckless and inquisitive Author.
    +1 link
    Sabyk
    Sabyk
    Posts: 1

    12/18/2015
    I'm working through the higher level one, and while it seems interesting, it's a bit distressing that the only way out of it is to complete it, especially since it takes so many actions.
    +1 link
    Myrto
    Myrto
    Posts: 202

    12/22/2015
    I'm really enjoying this! I've played it with all my characters and I think it's really fun! I appreciate the new abandonment option that came out today too, though I haven't had to use it yet.

    I like the unlimited draw combined with a limited hand, like how happens at zee. It made zee voyages much less annoying, and it seems like this Flash Lay will also be lots of fun.

    This is a fun way to get persuasive up, since I really hate writing stories.

    --
    Myrto, a mysterious veteran spy who is only on their own side; currently trying out the Trickster path. Married to navchaa!
    Edith Alpha Doyle, social climber with grand ambitions; Correspondent who would be happy to assist you in whatever way she can.
    Jack%20Ellis, teenaged orphan who came to the Neath to pursue a career in crime; monster-hunter. Currently spending time in New Newgate on the Seeking road.
    +1 link
    Leonora Rothwood
    Leonora Rothwood
    Posts: 17

    12/22/2015
    Just played through the spirifer option today -- well, partly yesterday and mostly today, so I noticed the popping up of the exit storylet and the "experimental content" notice, which were great.

    Based on a single playthrough of the lower-stat option with base stats of Watchful 120, Shadowy 86, Persuasive 106... I have to agree with the people calling for multi-progress-level rewards and a less random exit option. I ended up with Progress 137 or so before I could get out, and I felt distinctly disappointed that all that extra progress wasn't going anywhere. A 50 / 100 / 150 reward tree, perhaps with progressively more detailed story descriptions, would go a long way to balancing different players' priorities, I think. I'm not the kind of person who worries heavily about optimizing action payout (I'm just here for the story), so the experience was less one of "why am I wasting actions" and more that at some point I stopped reading the actual text and just started clicking through stuff, which always scares me a little (I've lost the chance to read large chunks of text that way).

    I personally didn't mind the "Time Draws Near" / "A Confessional Evening" duplication because it allowed me to get more Up Your Sleeve, but I can see how that would be annoying for people with different approaches. My menaces also never got high enough to be a problem; reading this thread, I'm almost scared to try the high-level option even when my stats hit the minimum suggested level!
    edited by LNRothwood on 12/22/2015

    --
    Leonora Rothwood, the Ink-Stained Wanderer
    +1 link
    Argent Ellis
    Argent Ellis
    Posts: 1

    12/22/2015
    It's been great fun and the level of difficulty makes it pretty fun - perhaps we could choose slightly different tiers of risk (like in Flint Part II) where the cards and storylets are exactly the same but the consequences are more severe with higher-risk Flash Lays (e.g. sharper increases to menaces/some loss of attributes)?
  • +1 link
    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2306

    12/20/2015
    dov wrote:
    NiteBrite,

    It took me exactly 30 actions, on the difficult path (started with no menaces, capped stats - though I did *not* bother to equip maximizing Persuasive gear). I didn't even know I was supposed to get to 100 Progress and just fumbled along semi arbitrarily, trying to sample all options, never using second chances.

    I got lucky by finding the exit card just before I hit 100 Progress. As you can see in this thread, some others were not so lucky and had to wait a lot for the exit card.

    So, it's definitely possible to do in under 40 actions, unless you get really bad luck. If you just want to quickly sample the mechanics and text (and not maximize rewards, necessarily) perhaps you should try the easy path, where you probably won't fail challenges. Try to start without menaces.


    I was lucky enough in all but one of my runs to get the exit card early, so I'd just hang on to it until I needed it. I was also lucky enough to get a card that gets rid of Suspicion and Scandal on a success.

    --
    Cathy Raymond
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

    Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
    +1 link
    navchaa
    navchaa
    Posts: 540

    12/20/2015
    An interesting thing about the Flash Lay is that you can't receive Shadowy, Persuasive or Watchful Christmas Cards but you can get Dangerous ones. This is probably related to the mechanic by which to reduce menaces and the fact that Dangerous/Wounds checks are not in the Lay. That is to say, you must send scandal/suspicion/nightmare reduction requests from your lodgings but wound reduction needs to be initiated from the other party. This locks you into using Up Your Sleeve to reduce menaces while in the Lay.

    I tried to use an alt to send a menace reducing Christmas Card seeing as it's suppose to function like a letter from the lodgings. Didn't work. Yet, I was in a Lay overnight and successfully received a Dangerous Christmas Card (thanks Olentzero!).
    edited by navchaa on 12/20/2015

    --
    Paramount Presence (London's Marrow 2, London's Nerves 2, London’s Sinew 3, London’s Blood 3) and mercenary Notary

    Married to Myrto :: Exchanging Surprise Packages with anyone interested :: Exchanging cat boxes with Kitty Rambunctious

    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/navchaa
    +1 link
    Gonen
    Gonen
    Posts: 817

    12/20/2015
    Lisbella Peridot wrote:
    There are names in this content! I saw the name Clarence, which is surprising. Isn't characters usually (the adjective + noun)?



    ...Anderson, Hopkins, Reed...
    Are names of constables from the velocipede squad, sharing a nice little earner.

    --
    The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.

    The long journey to eccentricity:
    On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
    +1 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/20/2015
    I bet there's some math that uses the numerical value of the Venture Difficulty quality? Nice addition, that!

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +1 link
    Kivrin Neverwinter
    Kivrin Neverwinter
    Posts: 86

    12/20/2015
    Well, I didn't realise that letting Nightmares get too high would be such an issue! Just failed a flash lay at 99 progress (over 40 moves, I've had some terrible luck). Interestingly enough, the auto-fire storylet (which seems to arrive at 5 Nightmares?) allowed me to switch up my gear, but didn't go away when I equipped a goldfish and pimp cane. Does this sound like something I should send a bug report about?

    I have to agree with the people saying that 100 is too high a bar to reach. Also very much in favour of making it clear that high menace levels could get you kicked out of the lay. I've played it through maybe four times now, and this is the first time it's become an issue.

    That being said, I have played it multiple times, and enjoyed it up until now! I'll probably go back and do it again. The mechanics are very interesting (I loved them in Flint) and a real change from how things are normally done.

    --
    Often lost, always armed, eager for adventure.
    Kivrin Neverwinter
    Also: August Reave, whose quest for knowledge tends to drive him mad or dead or both, at least once a week.
    +1 link
    Parelle
    Parelle
    Posts: 1084

    12/21/2015
    Finished my first two runs of the easier Spiefier one which is straightforward for me even with the TRF putting my stats into the 160's, which leads me to comment purely on the question of mechanics.

    1) if I had known how hard it was to find the completion card I would have held on to it the first time! That's one thing where the 3-card limit hurts. I hit progress 170(!) before I finished. Mind, I did a ton of reduce scandal and suspicion actions so I ended with only 1 additional in each menace but it took an extra 15+actions if not more (I overshot my 100 mark by 20+ points to start)
    2) With a bad draw you can still get kicked out even with perfect checks. My second attempt gained me up to level 4 in Suspicion and Scandal before I scraped by the finish line, even though I had the Mark card held and finished immediately.
    3) I liked it a lot! But I tend to do heists and expeditions because I like controlled randomness, so this isn't surprising. I'm part of the choir here - I'll do something for fun even if it's not particularly profitable. More variety, more possibility! Throw in some Making Waves, and I'll probably never leave.
    4) I don't have a problem with the 100 progress, but I do think the Mark card should appear a la the end of the Burglary card in a Heist - frequent and only after completion.
    5) That said, I look forward to the conversion of heists to this style of never-ending cards with a hard hand limit. It worked better than I thought, though for heists I admit that 4+ cards is a big deal.
    6) I would definitely be interested in different levels of progress as suggested before, along with an escape route like option to leave early. I'm going to wait to zero out my menaces before trying the harder Lay since I'm not yet at stat cap. I suspect I won't make it!

    --
    Parelle, Lady Joseph Marlen. The Singular Librarian. A Midnighter, a Player of the Marvelous.
    pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog | Useful Guidance and Explanations
    +1 link
    xKiv
    xKiv
    Posts: 819

    12/26/2015
    metasynthie wrote:
    Heists are an interesting midpoint between gamble and grind, come to think of it.


    That's only because you can still bring your lodging size in there.


    If you get good at doing the Flash Lay, you can definitely do it in ~20-22 actions.


    That sounds like I am either way too unlucky, or you have been way too lucky.


    That's one reason to do it; the other are that it might be a faster source than some of the rewards than other methods


    It will almost definitely be the best source of the tier 4/5 rewards once all upconverts consume favours.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
    +1 link
    Samuel Perryman
    Samuel Perryman
    Posts: 14

    12/26/2015
    xKiv wrote:
    metasynthie wrote:

    If you get good at doing the Flash Lay, you can definitely do it in ~20-22 actions.


    That sounds like I am either way too unlucky, or you have been way too lucky.



    Well, removing obstacles rather than trying to convert them used five Up Your Sleeve to gain 25 Progress. With luck, you can get 50 progress with only about six actions, plus removed obstacles. The rest just becomes skill checks.

    --
    Samuel Perryman A Correspondent and a patriot, seeking to bring London to a new Neathy Empire. An Extraordinary Mind accepting new proteges.

    Cecil Palmer Wait... Where is my radio?
    +1 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/27/2015
    Fhoenix wrote:
    Not sure how you can get good at this. Train your luck at drawing cards?
    Correct me if I am wrong but Second Chances should not improve EPA. First of all grinding them would cost actions too. And second a 40% chances to fail and waste an action is still a 40% chance to fail and waste an action, even if you can retry.


    Being better at gambling involves understanding and managing statistical likelihoods -- in this case, knowing which cards to play or hold depending on where you are in terms of Progress, Up Your Sleeve, and actions spent. Can you "afford" another Obstacle or a 3-progress action, should you use a Second Chance, etc. No, Second Chances don't improve your EPA if you have to grind them, even if you get them from sources with above 0 epa. When I factored those in, it lowered the EPA from close to 3 to below 2. But using a second chance on a 60% chance turns it into a 84% chance at no extra action cost. It's pretty important to understand at least that much math if you're going to optimize with them factored in, since they could be vital in a clinch.

    The other way to get better at gambling is to improve your psychological fortitude for loss that's out of your control -- to get better at not going Tilt, as they say in some games. It's a mental skill. Good gambling games require a lot of statistical strategy, apprehending a complex situation and not freaking out. It's unpredictable, but I don't have much respect for the blase, conventional-wisdom strategists' attitude that more luck = less interesting. I used to think that way, but I tried to educate myself on the subject.

    I am probably over-optimistic about the 20-22 actions but if I managed a really lucky 17-action run it's worth shooting for as a goal! The only cards you really want to try and avoid are ones that can only give you 3 progress.

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +1 link
    Kaigen
    Kaigen
    Posts: 528

    12/29/2015
    I'll echo what some others are saying and note that I like that there are more difficult checks in this content for stat-maxed players; it gives me a good excuse to use second chances again, which in turn motivates me to use social actions more.

    That said, the variability might be too high. As it is, if I draw the card that allows you to finish the lay, I almost always bank it forever regardless of where I am progress-wise, because if I use it I might not see it for dozens of actions. Similarly, even with two obstacles in the deck, it can take a surprisingly long time to draw the associated cards, which also contributes to the variability in action cost. When an already action heavy task has a range of 10+ actions over which it might be expected to end, I can see why some people prefer to stay away.

    --
    Just a simple doctor with a chess habit. Publisher of The Flit Dispatch.

    "One must remember that the impossible is, alas, always possible."
    -Jacques Derrida
    +1 link
    Brass Lion
    Brass Lion
    Posts: 7

    12/30/2015
    I quite like it mechanically - I did the 50 stat one, the Spirifer. I feel that the cards are written pretty generically, though - it would be nice to have some of them written specifically for the Spirifer (or other) con, or at least replace "your mark" with the title of the mark. More immersive that way. Currently, only the last card seems to matter for the story.

    Having a few cards that are specific to each target mechanically, perhaps playing on connections, also seems obvious.

    I quite like the focus on the substats (ruthless, steadfast, etc.) - those don't get enough play.

    --
    Brass Lion - Gone NORTH - https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Brass%20Lion
    +1 link
    Esteban Delgado
    Esteban Delgado
    Posts: 31

    12/31/2015
    There may be a bug here. In the Spirifer version, with the card ?The Perils of Enthusiasm," the "Beg your mark to fetch a Constable" option says it cannot be played if one has "An importunate Constable." I have not, but the option thinks I do, so I cannot play it.

    --
    I am Empty
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Esteban~Delgado
    +1 link
    Esteban Delgado
    Esteban Delgado
    Posts: 31

    12/31/2015
    I should say, I received no notification of such impediment. But a second one turned up, a locked door or such. I suppose it would be convenient to know if such disabilities are active at the start of the Lay.

    --
    I am Empty
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Esteban~Delgado
    +1 link
    metasynthie
    metasynthie
    Posts: 645

    12/31/2015
    When you begin a Flash Lay there's a point where you get a bunch of qualities, like "Your Mark" being set to the Spirifer or the Auditor, etc. That's where the game tells you what Obstacles you begin with. (Is it random? Not sure -- it might be fixed depending on the Mark?) If you do another Flash Lay and don't see those showing up but do end up with one somehow, that'd be a bug report to file; they're also supposed to all disappear at the end of the Flash Lay.

    --
    Positively antique
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/metasynthie
    +1 link
    msadler2u
    msadler2u
    Posts: 5

    1/4/2016
    I got the Opening: A Corrupt Constable card. When I click on it, the playing area goes blank, and then the card returns. When I begin another Flash Lay, it appears in my hand, but again, I can't play it. Has anyone else had this problem? Do you know how to solve it?

    Thank you.

    Ms. Adler
    +1 link
    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2306

    1/28/2016
    Dirk McTaggart wrote:
    Adam Darkzee wrote:
    it needs work but it was very enjoyable, it was an exciting and rewarding storylet. Very fun to play.


    Agree! Just played through my first one (the auditor) and I liked it a lot. The gameplay is definitely more interesting compared to, say, the heists.


    You are entitled to your opinion, but I enjoy the heists more; I like the challenge of assembling the right combo of keys, Escape Routes, and Inside Information so I can stay in the burglary setting as long as possible. Because the order of the cards is different each time, that maximization attempt feels almost like a real burglary to me.

    --
    Cathy Raymond
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

    Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
    +1 link
    The Absurd Rogue
    The Absurd Rogue
    Posts: 1049

    2/2/2016
    I love these types of mini-games that make use of the opportunity deck! It definitely needs some tweaking, but it really does feel strategic. I would be very happy if more stuff similar to this was released in the future!

    --
    "There is never another story. There is only one, and I try to tell it with every page. I fail, and I try again. There are no new stories; I have this one."
    -S.N

    RemainProfane#2532
    +1 link
    Tamin
    Tamin
    Posts: 4

    3/3/2016
    *pops out from lurking/hiding in the shadows mode*

    I know I am a bit late in posting this, seeing as most everyone posted 2 months ago, but I just played through the first storylet, and thought I would mention a problem with obstacle cards.

    First I want to say, this content was extremely enjoyable, loved the versatility it presented and the fact there was different ways to approach the end solution. Felt like a pick your own route storylet that one can either roleplay with or mash through, depending on the flavor of the person who wanted to do the storylet. Kudos to the team!

    Now to the problem. Its more of a Browser issue honestly. I am on win10, using Edge. Seems Edge will sometimes 'toss out' that obstacle card, by refreshing the page and you are sent back to three choices of cards. I realize Edge is still going through its growing pains, but thought I would point it out, as I did not see anything mentioned here about that aspect of storylet.
    edited by Tamin on 3/3/2016

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Tamin
    +1 link
    Jasta Prasta
    Jasta Prasta
    Posts: 7

    1/17/2016
    I played both stories and I loved them. Much more pleasant way to obtain the items from the reward instead of the usual click-repeat grinding.
    +1 link
    The Duke of Waltham
    The Duke of Waltham
    Posts: 150

    12/19/2015
    Infrasound wrote:
    Playing the Up Your Sleeve option on A Confessional Evening without touching Time Draws Near leaves you with the Time Draws Near card.
    This is an important point; I hadn't really considered the option and it's clearly the one to be preferred, so as not to waste a useful card.

    Infrasound wrote:
    As for an explanation, a recent(ish) patch made it so most cards with redirects leave you with the card you redirected to. This is good for cards that loop to themselves like Slowcake's Amanuensis as you can Perhaps Not without losing them, as well as other cards with redirects such as An Implausible Penance. You can never have two of the same card, so if you would have two, it removes one copy of it. So, if you have both A Confessional Evening and Time Draws Near, and play the redirect on Time Draws Near, you now have two copies of A Confessional Evening. The game notices this and removes one of them (though this isn't obvious if you don't Perhaps Not). That means that when you then go on to use the Up Your Sleeve option, you use up your last card.

    I couldn't understand likening a card to a storylet, but this explanation here makes perfect sense, Infrasound. Thank you for the trouble you took in rephrasing.

    Gonen wrote:
    Yes, I understood that they wanted us to explore on our own. Though when investing in so many actions, 2nd chances and later on, cleaning high menaces... Well, I'm having a hard time accepting the punish of such an investment just because one needs to find the rules on one's own. Even the shorter Heist instructs on the failure option. 5 scandal was not a big deal until now, so never had I suspected that achieving "merely" 5 scandal can kick me out.
    Imagine the other 90% of players who don't read the forum and finds out the hard way.

    I get what you mean; the Flash Lay isn't actually marked as experimental content, and there is no announcement about it that would direct a player to the forum. Moreover, although there are some warnings about menaces once the Flash Lay has begun, failure is largely unexpected (and the player still isn't warned about the importance of menaces before starting). And I did spend several second chances, though I didn't mind as much as I might have because of all the Christmas cards.

    Gonen wrote:
    Also: Sorry, I hope i'm not triggering "admins alert" when quoting Chris with the orange color. Don't know how to convert it to white.

    You could have either tried turning the editor to HTML and removed the colour tags, or clicked on "preview", then copying the text from the preview and pasting it within the quote tags, which would have eliminated the orange colour and substituted the purple of quotations (not white). But then you didn't use quote tags for my part. Why, Gonen? Why?

    --
    The Duke of Waltham welcomes requests for assistance from those troubled by menaces, and His Grace's townhouse is always open to visitors who will not attempt to steal the silverware or extract support for yet another ill-advised scheme concerning photographers.

    H. Cartwright, secretary.
    +1 link
    xKiv
    xKiv
    Posts: 819

    3/22/2016
    Meradine Heidenreich wrote:
    .bump:

    I thought this might be an ideal opportunity to use a "mood" card -- but had the impression it either didn't work, or made no difference to speak of. Can anyone confirm?


    You *did* equip the hat, right?

    And yes, +30 looks like a lot compared to other gear, but it's not that much when compared to the difficulties you are facing by that point.
    It will be even less later, useful more for passing artificially high requirements.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
    +1 link
    annalibertas
    annalibertas
    Posts: 161

    3/3/2016
    genesis wrote:
    I have a massive request. Could we please please please have zero action costs on the guide branches? I keep getting unpleasantly surprised when I just want to check on how obstacles work or whatever and eats my actions!

    dittoing

    Guide storylets in FL are generally zero actions, so I was surprised to see the Flash Lays weren't and it's especially frustrating since it's already a rather action heavy area

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anna%20Libertas
    Accepting all social actions & boxed cats

    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Julliah%20Randolph
    Alt, will accept all social actions whenever I log on
    +1 link
    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2306

    3/24/2016
    Sara Hysaro wrote:
    It does tell you, at least.


    Sara, is that a recent change? I don't *think* the card said that at the time I e-mailed FBG with my "bug" report...
    edited by cathyr19355 on 4/5/2016

    --
    Cathy Raymond
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

    Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
    +1 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    3/22/2016
    It does tell you, at least.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
    Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

    Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
    +1 link
    absimiliard
    absimiliard
    Posts: 759

    3/23/2016
    I entirely missed that moods were a hat.

    Blast.

    No wonder my recent novel-writing spree didn't seem to have any change in the percentages for success......

    --
    "Because, Parabola!" -- the Curious Captain
    Eating nightmares from friends -- and I'm easy to befriend.
    Absimiliard: the Black Rose of Wolfstack Docks
    +1 link
    Kaigen
    Kaigen
    Posts: 528

    11/11/2016
    The storylet either needs to have more stringent requirements for how much menace you can have and still start, or else better warn the player. Entering a Flash Lay with 3 in any of the menaces is basically shooting yourself in the foot, and the game doesn't communicate that to the player.

    If you enter a flash lay with 0 menace and a healthy buffer of second chances, it can be quite fun in my opinion, but one's odds quickly go from reasonable to terrible the further you get from that.

    --
    Just a simple doctor with a chess habit. Publisher of The Flit Dispatch.

    "One must remember that the impossible is, alas, always possible."
    -Jacques Derrida
    +1 link
    Clifton Royston
    Clifton Royston
    Posts: 110

    4/25/2016
    Jenny Yang wrote:
    I got my menaces down to 3 so I could start on the shiny new content and I failed pretty quickly (Shadowy 57, Persuasive 52). Quite sad about all those wasted actions. Maybe you could advise to start at 0 menace before embarking on one, so others don't make the same mistake?


    I just opened a forum account to add a similar comment, as it happened.

    When it told me only after starting that I would fail immediately if any of my menaces hit 5, I practically freaked out. Nonetheless I got through the first one successfully and actually exited with lower Scandal and Suspicion than I started with (unmodified Shadowy 59, Persuasive 70, with some good bonuses.) Still, I think this is something a player should be told before irrevocably starting this section.

    IMHO you should look through what's explained in the introductory section after you've committed to the "Flash Lay" and consider moving at least critical information like that to be shown before you enter it.

    Having said all that, it was a lot of fun, and faster than I had expected to hit 75 progress. Certainly a lot livelier than an expedition or than the long slog to build up Casing to "Make My Name" in the Flit.

    --
    A person of little significance:
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cliftonr

    Currently accepting all non-harmful social actions, at least until I learn better.
    +1 link
    Hellena
    Hellena
    Posts: 1

    4/27/2016
    Chris Gardiner wrote:
    Lacunae wrote:
    I'm currently getting the option to start this story from the Party area following "A Polite Invitation..." Is this intentional?

    This should no longer be the case.


    Just ended up there via the Party actually... A bit lost, I'll play it until the end and edit this answer accordingly! ^^

    --
    Hellena, "an insightful and fascinating lady": more like floundering around making little noise. Like shiny things.

    ~http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hellena
    +1 link
    Vexpont
    Vexpont
    Posts: 137

    5/2/2016
    I have now successfully played this once on the lower level, after what must have been quite a lot of tweaking by the developers.

    Starting with Shadowy 42 and Persuasive 41, Suspicion and Scandal and at 1, plus a selection of modest (max +4) stats modifiers, the 'Spirifer' Flash Lay is a tough resource-management challenge for those who like a gamble. Given that resource-management games are the least popular type of interactive fiction, I think it should be emphasised more strongly that this is what the player is in for if they plunge in the moment this option is offered (my character is himself a terrible gambler and naturally gets into scrapes; I make no complaint).

    I think the end sequence now autofires when the player reaches Flash Lay's Progress 100-110. This was much appreciated, as by this point I'd invested a couple of candles' worth of play (at least) and spent at least four second chances, and was getting jumpy as I repeatedly failed to draw an ending card.

    Apart from what I supply in my mind, the tale is a bit generic. The suspense is down to the risk of suddenly drawing a major skill check, whilst Scandal and Suspicion build rather quicker than Up Your Sleeve; it feels like playing whimsical blackjack. But the Spirifer storylet lured me in because these grisly soul-thieves fascinate me (and I slightly fancied I might be in for a chance of getting a Spirifer's Fork, or raising my Shadowy/Persuasive significantly; no such luck with either). But I feel I haven't learned much about my wealthy and fairly respectable mark. Has he got regrets about his trade? How does a person even get into this filthy business?

    The Importunate Constable was the best character by far. Perhaps, if I am in serious danger of failure, she might attempt to turn me, and leave me alone if I swear to dob in the Spirifer and split my ill-gotten gains with her. I honestly felt a little bad when I was forced to fabricate evidence against this hardcase, and it would be a nice touch if she could turn up again to plague me in future – or blackmail me, demanding that I use my less-reputable skills to assist her. She's probably a little crooked, for whatever reason, and that makes a nice contrast to the straight-arrow Last Constable, who I don't expect to meet again for some time.
    ______

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont

    --
    Dangerous to my enemies; loyal to my friends. Not too handy at telling the difference.

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Vexpont
    +1 link
    Estelle Knoht
    Estelle Knoht
    Posts: 1751

    9/16/2018
    It'd be nice to see some of these randomized mad-libs text in Flush Lay and PoSI carousels, like how it was done in loitering or the seasonal ES randomizers.

    That said, people did have their fill of Flush Lay over the years - election aside, there were too many instances of Flush Lays in past ES.
    edited by Estelle Knoht on 9/16/2018

    --
    Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
    I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
    +1 link
    Spooks
    Spooks
    Posts: 32

    2/25/2018
    Phosuletec-Shen wrote:
    Flash Lay is a great concept but isn't really fun to play.
    It feels like you're being punished immensely for every coin flip you lose, and you're gonna be losing quite a lot of those coin flips until you quit.

    Oh no! If you want to quit, too bad, you're trapped in until your progress is 25 or a menace gets too high.


    I really like the Concept of the Flash Lay - had to quality for and I second the comments above. It’s needs to be easier to enter into and more fun and rewarding in a general "Fallen London" way
    +1 link
    Alexander
    Alexander
    Posts: 4

    6/21/2018
    I tried this out recently, and it appears to by very interesting, can be very challenging depending on how you play the game. Very interesting concept, I would complain about the lack of additional options for "victims", but you'll probably add in more once it's fully implemented.
    +1 link
     Saklad
    Saklad
    Posts: 525

    4/25/2017
    Here’s a suggestion: either eliminate the chance that you will lose your Openings, or massively increase the benefits of using them. As it stands now, they are rather underwhelming considering the effort required to get them.

    --
    Saklad5, a man of many talents
    +1 link




    Powered by Jitbit Forum 8.0.2.0 © 2006-2013 Jitbit Software