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EXPERIMENTAL CONTENT: A Flash Lay Messages in this topic - RSS

Anchovies
Anchovies
Posts: 422

3/27/2017
I recently played through the Successful Spirifer option over the past two days, and I have to say that I'm terribly disappointed. During the course of the Lay, my Nightmares reached 4 from occasional failed challenges. At that point, I drew an auto-played card which told me that my Nightmares had gotten too high. The only option I was able to choose was to exit the lay in failure, because the only other option on the card required more Up Your Sleeve than I happened to have. My concerns with what happened are as follows.
  • At no point during the Lay was I presented an option which could reduce my Nightmares. This is the big one. Entry requires Menaces less than 4, cards within the Lay increase Menaces, reaching Menaces 4 can force a loss, and normal Opportunity cards and story options are inaccessible during the Lay.
  • The Lay instructions and entry requirements indicated that keeping Menaces below 3 was a good idea, but never gave the impression that reaching 4 in one Menace could force a total loss.
  • If Up Your Sleeve is necessary to avoid random forced losses, then Up Your Sleeve is best hoarded for those occasions, rather than spent to remove Obstacles or advance Progress.
  • Over the course of the Lay, I gained zero benefits other than the basic core-quality change points from attempting challenges. No items, no progress in secondary qualities.

I'm rather annoyed by this, since I put a few dozen actions into the Lay and got kicked from it through what seems to be no fault of my own. I won't be touching the Lays again in their current state.


On a more general level, I'm not a fan of the total replacement of normal options by the Lay. I quite like stories that involve building gradual progress through nonlinear options, like Black Ribbon fights at Wolfstack Docks or creative works at the Empress's Court. However, I can take breaks from those if I so desire, which allows me to reduce Menaces increased by the long-term work and refresh resources exhausted in pursuit of the goal (usually commodity items, Favours, or Connected).

Perhaps expanding the Flash Lay to allow access to story options in at least Lodgings and the location of the Lay (e.g. Veilgarden for the existing Lays) could be a good compromise between the current Lay system and the less restrictive Expeditions, duel preparations, and so forth. Had that been the case, I'd have been able to actively reduce my Menaces rather than relying on the luck of the draw.

--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke

Lionel Anchovies. Most social actions welcome. Always open to some delicious roleplaying. Please no betrayals, photographer, or lethal sparring. My Time, the Healer arrives on Saturdays at 14:30 GMT
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Rostygold
Rostygold
Posts: 270

3/28/2017
Anchovies wrote:
Had that been the case, I'd have been able to actively reduce my Menaces rather than relying on the luck of the draw.

Indeed, that would be my complaint too. Despite my preparations, e.g. loading up on Second Chances and reducing menaces before starting a Flash Lay, there had been instances where really bad luck screwed my player character over.

Chief of these examples of really bad luck is drawing obstacle cards over and over, building up menaces, and then drawing the Menace-triggered cards which just make things worse and/or sap away precious Up Your Sleeve.

I would have preferred if there are some storylets which allow the reduction of Menaces with the expenditure of resources.
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Blair Collins
Blair Collins
Posts: 1

4/4/2017
I must say I'm not really enjoying this. The Obstacle cards pop up without warning. I don't feel like I have enough of a chance to prepare by building Up Your Sleeve before I hit another Obstacle. The Flash Lays seem like a souped-up version of the Pickpocket Promenade. In both, there's a chance you might get kicked out early. But the Flash Lay is so much bigger, and if you lose a Pickpocket Promenade you at least get to spend the trophies you did collect. Maybe if there were some way to spend progress for a lesser award if your Menaces get too high? So that if you fail you still get something out of it besides the experience.

--
Blair Collins (The On-Time) is a...well they're not quite sure what they are. A good person? They hope? Messages welcome
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 Saklad
Saklad
Posts: 491

4/4/2017
Blair Collins wrote:
I must say I'm not really enjoying this. The Obstacle cards pop up without warning. I don't feel like I have enough of a chance to prepare by building Up Your Sleeve before I hit another Obstacle. The Flash Lays seem like a souped-up version of the Pickpocket Promenade. In both, there's a chance you might get kicked out early. But the Flash Lay is so much bigger, and if you lose a Pickpocket Promenade you at least get to spend the trophies you did collect. Maybe if there were some way to spend progress for a lesser award if your Menaces get too high? So that if you fail you still get something out of it besides the experience.

I enjoy them, but you have to get a feel for risk management and which cards to use. They also have extremely high skill challenges, such that even a max-stat character like mine has difficulties with the Avid Auditor. That still didn’t stop me from grinding Uncanny Incunabula with it, efficiency be damned.


  • My main advice:

    • Hoard Menace reduction cards until you can fully benefit from them, then use them immediately
    • Always try to get more Up Your Sleeve when given the option
    • Try to distribute your Menace gains across Scandal, Suspicion, and Nightmares, the latter of which is often a safe choice since it rarely comes up
    • If you feel you need it, go ahead and spend Up Your Sleeve on Menace reduction. If the current stat is less than 3, you definitely don’t need it. Beyond that, make a judgement call.
    • Don’t be afraid to remove Obstacles instead of turning them into Openings, but always do the latter when able
    • Avoid multi-action options when feasible, since they are very inefficient.
    • Do not underestimate the difficulty. In many ways, the fun part is the panic of trying to recover from near-failure. It isn’t pure luck, but it isn’t a walk in the park either. There’s a moderate learning curve here.


    --
    Saklad5, a man of many talents
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    Rostygold
    Rostygold
    Posts: 270

    4/5/2017
    Saklad wrote:
    Always try to get more Up Your Sleeve when given the option

    Think twice about this: consider the amount of progress that is still needed, versus the progress that can be gained from spending Up Your Sleeve on clearing Obstacles. Any Up Your Sleeve that is not spent at the end of a Flash Lay is completely wasted, so don't overstock.
    Saklad wrote:
    Don’t be afraid to remove Obstacles instead of turning them into Openings, but always do the latter when able.

    I used to do this, until I figured out that the Openings don't give benefits which are worth the Actions and additional Up Your Sleeve spent to get them. I would suggest removing Obstacles instead so that other cards can come up, and regaining Obstacles when enough Up Your Sleeve has been accumulated to absorb the appearance of one.
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    reaperOscuroCore
    reaperOscuroCore
    Posts: 41

    4/6/2017
    Gooday,

    I've attempted the easier of the two lays, and from a gameplay point of view it is eminently acceptable. It's pretty much a variant on the Heist story in the Shadowy path, but what I really like is that it's rewarding someone for advancing multiple Stats, as if saying "You took the time to explore thoroughly? Then here's something for you to try out..."
    Obstacles, Up sleeve et all could definitely do with some fine tuning -but when one is dealing with random chances, there is always the chance of a streak of obstacles or whatnot. Perhaps such chances could be actively reduced during the lay, so that if one has a plethora of obstacles/menaces already, cards that give more are less frequent? Or if you're down, you're prone to being kicked? While that is true in real life, to ensure higher player satisfaction I'd suggest less kicking.
    My main complaint is story-wise; I had no idea what I was doing in my lay until the ending, and found that opportunities/my actions did not reflect in any way what I was doing. Similarly with the heist since the opportunities are covering a multitude of stories, there is a disconnect between them and the story itself. I'd much rather have opportunities that are story/detail tailored to the story I am attempting.

    --
    Arden Terraward -a gentleperson on the search for...EVERYTHING. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Arden%20Terraward
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    genesis
    genesis
    Posts: 910

    4/25/2017
    Unlock requirements for menances have dropped so that you need them less than 3 (instead of less than 4). This means that you are less likely to start closer to failure.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin

    Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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     Saklad
    Saklad
    Posts: 491

    4/25/2017
    Here’s a suggestion: either eliminate the chance that you will lose your Openings, or massively increase the benefits of using them. As it stands now, they are rather underwhelming considering the effort required to get them.

    --
    Saklad5, a man of many talents
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    Rostygold
    Rostygold
    Posts: 270

    4/26/2017
    genesis wrote:
    Unlock requirements for menances have dropped so that you need them less than 3 (instead of less than 4). This means that you are less likely to start closer to failure.

    This has been around for a while.
    However, I will suggest clearing as many Menaces as possible, to absorb bouts of bad luck in Flash Lay attempts.
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    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2145

    4/26/2017
    Rostygold wrote:
    genesis wrote:
    Unlock requirements for menances have dropped so that you need them less than 3 (instead of less than 4). This means that you are less likely to start closer to failure.

    This has been around for a while.
    However, I will suggest clearing as many Menaces as possible, to absorb bouts of bad luck in Flash Lay attempts.


    I agree with Rostygold about clearing Menaces (especially Suspicion, Scandal, and Nightmares) before you start. You will from time to time pull cards that will let you reduce one or more Menaces; play them! To make sure you can', collect Up Your Sleeve as often as possible.

    --
    Cathy Raymond
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/cathyr19355

    Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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    Melancholeric
    Melancholeric
    Posts: 3

    5/16/2017
    Having played through Spirifer's Lay, I have a few peevs:

    • Basically no flavour. There are no cards that would tie in to the Spirifer being... Spirifer. It's all non-specific and nameless.
    • I wish more was done with the Obstacles — my Corrupt Constable didn't amount to much and ceased to exist after i finished the Lay. It would be great to have consequences outside of the rewards you get.
    • Flesh Lay is completely disconnected from the rest of Fallen London, as if you teleported into another city. There are no opportunity cards based on your acquaitances and deeds — in fact, when my character was almost spoofed by a friend at the salon, I wondered why it wasn't the Artist's Model.

    All in all, I wish Flesh Lays had more content connecting them to the rest of the game and more flavour to the stories. As is, I don't think they are worthwhile in terms of narrative and a little embarassing.
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    fahrentiam
    fahrentiam
    Posts: 2

    5/16/2017
    I played through, and enjoyed, the Spirifer's Lay, but I do have a few critiques.

    • Incredibly action heavy, it took, I think, 30-35 of my 40 actions. This was partially due to luck being against me, I failed an astounding number of very high skill checks, but still, it most likely would have taken a non-exceptional friend user several hours to do simply because of the amount of actions needed.
    • Felt quite disconnected from the rest of Fallen London, there could have been some tie-ins from your acquaintances or actions, for example, in the Spirifer's Lay, if you were a character with a high Connected: Hell quality then there would be an opportunity to use your knowledge to persuade the Spirifer more. Not sure how you would implement, but still seems like an area for possible expansion.
    • The differences between the two seem very wide, 50 and 125? It seems like it might be better to have a middle option, my skills are a little lacking to attempt the Auditor, but then the majority of the checks in the Spirifer were Straightforward and usually in the 80-90% range. Maybe having there to be a middle option, 50, 80-90, and 125, would make there be less of a large skill gap.

    Overall I really enjoyed it, I like the separate location and deck, but it seemed like some things could have been implemented better.
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    Waterowl
    Waterowl
    Posts: 14

    6/21/2017
    I thought the play mechanics and illustrations were great. I played the 125 level. However, it didn't really tie into the rest of Fallen London. I didn't really get why I was trying to con this mark nor did the cards give me much of a clue. There also weren't any characters that I could recognize and the others were generic. I didn't understand how the rewards related to the flash lay. So ultimately I found it rather boring.

    A much better flash lay is a Polite Invitation. I understood the purpose - impress the host so you can gain a personal recommendation. The characters were memorable and interesting like the Brass Ambassador and the Turkish Girl.

    I think with a little more description on the Veilgarden flash lay card, it could be really fun.
    edited by Waterowl on 6/21/2017
    edited by Waterowl on 6/21/2017

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Waterowl Correspondent willing to visit your orphanage. I will take most positive social actions except loitering and affluent photographer.
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    periferal
    periferal
    Posts: 1

    2/10/2018
    I played through a lower level one, and at 50 persuasive and 70 shadowy took about forty actions to do it, which makes sense since I believe I was doing it at slightly lower than recommended.

    This may just be a matter of luck, but I was never given opportunities to get rid of the various obstacles (door, constable, etc) except for the acquaintance a few times.

    Over all pretty fun. Reminded me some of other storynexus games I've played that have infinite card draw.
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    Phosuletec-Shen
    Phosuletec-Shen
    Posts: 1

    2/24/2018
    Flash Lay is a great concept but isn't really fun to play.
    It feels like you're being punished immensely for every coin flip you lose, and you're gonna be losing quite a lot of those coin flips until you quit.

    Oh no! If you want to quit, too bad, you're trapped in until your progress is 25 or a menace gets too high.
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    Spooks
    Spooks
    Posts: 32

    2/25/2018
    Phosuletec-Shen wrote:
    Flash Lay is a great concept but isn't really fun to play.
    It feels like you're being punished immensely for every coin flip you lose, and you're gonna be losing quite a lot of those coin flips until you quit.

    Oh no! If you want to quit, too bad, you're trapped in until your progress is 25 or a menace gets too high.


    I really like the Concept of the Flash Lay - had to quality for and I second the comments above. It’s needs to be easier to enter into and more fun and rewarding in a general "Fallen London" way
    +1 link
    Alexander
    Alexander
    Posts: 2

    6/21/2018
    I tried this out recently, and it appears to by very interesting, can be very challenging depending on how you play the game. Very interesting concept, I would complain about the lack of additional options for "victims", but you'll probably add in more once it's fully implemented.
    +1 link
    Jack Cassius
    Jack Cassius
    Posts: 1

    9/13/2018
    I have to say, I immensely dislike the autoplay cards. For one thing, I dislike having my choices made for me; having only one option unlocked and being unable to navigate anywhere else or return to the problem later feels very confining. For another, at least in the Spirifer line with regards to suspicion, unless one has Up Your Sleeve stockpiled, it seems incredibly unfair to force the player into a position where their only option is to risk gaining MORE of the thing they are being warned they have too much of! Had I known this would be the case, I certainly wouldn't have attempted this when I already had Suspicion 2. Furthermore, the only option I've had thus far to reduce my suspicion gave me Ruthless by way of exchange: hideously OOC for me, and not something I'd have chosen if I'd been given another choice. The autoplay "your suspicion is too high" card seemed to appear at least twice as often as any card that would allow me to DO something about this, and only served to exacerbate the issue. To make matters worse, I can't abandon this ill-fated quest without garnering MORE suspicion, again due to a lack of Up Your Sleeve on offer.

    Given that this thread started back in 2015 I have some doubts as to whether any changes are still being implemented to these particular storylets, but in the event that they are, I second the opinion of everyone who has mentioned that these feel very disconnected from the remainder of London. The Spirifer (or I guess I should more accurately say 'the mark') doesn't seem very...Spirifer-y. The acquaintances I am assumed to have (or not have) also feel very generic, which would make sense if this was stock content- but I have to wonder if it is STILL beta-testing stock content in 2018? I would also like to second Anchovies complaint that
    Anchovies wrote:
    Over the course of the Lay, I gained zero benefits other than the basic core-quality change points from attempting challenges. No items, no progress in secondary qualities.
    Not only did I gain progress in a characteristic I did not want, I will now be leaving this activity short a good handful of actions, with far more Suspicion than I started with, and with nothing else to show for it. This is frustrating. Phosuletec-Shen has the right of it: this is a great idea in theory, and I for one jumped at the chance to swindle a Spirifer, but the way the system is currently implemented is far too punishing for me to call it "fun."
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    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 858

    9/16/2018
    Well... while I certainly understand the frustration, I will play Devil's advocate a bit. The Lays are punishing, true, but it is nice to have content that is actually challenging for high level players. You can take a great risk, and walk away richer than before, all the way feeling more suspense than usually which is what a conman would feel.
    However... to make it worthwile the rewards should be much, much higher. If I can easily make echoes through Heists and Expeditions, not to mention other carousels, the very difficult Flash Lay which takes up almost ALL of my 40 actions should be at least more rewarding than them. Why play less for less reward? It is not even lore-rich or particuarly atmospheric.
    However, with increased rewards and different texts, the core mechanic does replicate a long con (time consuming, suspensful, dangerous) well enough. If it was profitable, I am sure more people would risk it daily.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +2 link
    Estelle Knoht
    Estelle Knoht
    Posts: 1748

    9/16/2018
    It'd be nice to see some of these randomized mad-libs text in Flush Lay and PoSI carousels, like how it was done in loitering or the seasonal ES randomizers.

    That said, people did have their fill of Flush Lay over the years - election aside, there were too many instances of Flush Lays in past ES.
    edited by Estelle Knoht on 9/16/2018

    --
    Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
    I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
    +1 link




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