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CHRISTMAS IN THE NEATH: A GUIDE Messages in this topic - RSS

metasynthie
metasynthie
Posts: 645

11/9/2015
Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
I've played them all and while I'm not totally sure that there's always an overall gain, I can definitely say that the ToL you need for the final choice is not something you have to worry about.



So I looked into this further with the assistance of a friend's notes -- and it looks like the 12-fate stories all give you...

[spoiler]7 ToL partway through the 12 Days, and then cost 5 ToL at the end, for a net gain of 2. (Not sure where the 4 comes from -- maybe that includes gain from other days?) Here's the thing, though -- you don't HAVE to finish these storylines. You can just keep the 7 ToL and not lose 5, since losing 5 just gets you a valuable (312.5 echo) reward and 100 CP of connection you get at the Sundered Sea. If you don't have the Duchess' reward, that's the only one that can't be obtained without Fate elsewhere. The Docks fate story, however, will make you miss one opportunity to get a pail.
The 8-fate stories, on the other hand, aren't quite as worth it. Urchins gives you 1 extra ToL, a Storm-Threnody and 140 CP of Urchins connection, which might be handy if you're buying pails from them. Benthic gets you 3 ToL, but on days when you can get ToL from non-fate choices. And Revolutionaries gives you no ToL.[/spoiler]

I know there might be a 12 Days guide coming, but I'd love to know if this quick rundown seems off at all:
Day 2: various options give +1 ToL; you can play the Consonant Violin, hand over a Greyfields First Sporing or just have some connections at 20
Day 5: +1 ToL option if you are a Celestial (can change this for 2.5E and a Vision of the Surface in the Singing Mandrake) or +1 ToL if doing the Benthic fate story
Day 6: +7 ToL if doing the Duchess fate story
Day 7: +1 ToL if doing the Urchins fate story, or +7 ToL if doing the Widow fate story
Day 8: +1 ToL if you invite Silas in without calling him Silas
Day 9: +1 Pail of Snow option... or if you've spent 100 Fate on a Boneless Consort, you can get +2 ToL (and lose some of your Peculiar Enhancement)... or +1 ToL if doing the Benthic fate story... or +7 ToL if doing the Docks fate story
Day 11: +1 ToL for Notaries and Doctors
Day 12: +1 ToL and 1 Pail of Snow for taking advantage of disintegrating Sacks, or +1 ToL if doing the Benthic fate story

Max you can earn without fate: 5 ToL (most seem to be uncapped) and 2 pails of snow, if you are a Celestial Notary or Doctor
Max you can earn with fate: 14 ToL and 1 pail of snow for Celestial Notaries or Doctors with Peculiar Personal Enhancements helping the Widow or Duchess

One other question if anyone remembers: does the Noman cost some of all of your quirks... even at the very beginning of the season?
edited by metasynthie on 11/9/2015

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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 775

11/9/2015
Hrm, hrm... I'm not sure that such detailed discussion of the rewards of Fate-locked stories is allowed on the forums - at least not without spoiler-tags. Use those and you're probably on the safe side wink

metasynthie wrote:
does the Noman cost some of all of your quirks... even at the very beginning of the season?

The wiki says no. It doesn't cost something of ALL your quirks even at the end, only 3 of Melancholy, Hedonist, Magnanimous, Forceful each.
EDIT: Wait, are those really part of the PRICE? Not just unlocking criteria?

Your rundown seems fine, but I haven't really looked into this yet. Tomorrow...
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 11/9/2015

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Kylestien
Kylestien
Posts: 734

11/9/2015
So what do I need to do if I want to aim for both the Suite at the Royal Bethleham and The Brass Embassy five card houses? Also, if I have a Dreadful Surmise, it does not get used up if I use it to get more? I do have one but I'm afraid to use it.

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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 775

11/9/2015
Kylestien wrote:
So what do I need to do if I want to aim for both the Suite at the Royal Bethleham and The Brass Embassy five card houses? Also, if I have a Dreadful Surmise, it does not get used up if I use it to get more? I do have one but I'm afraid to use it.

That's 15 ToL, or 7 Pails of Snow, at least without Mr Sacks. Read the OP, but don't make your plan just yet, this is still under construction.
EDIT: It looks like we'll be able to get two Pails of Lacre and five levels of ToL from Mr Sacks, without paying any Fate. Six levels for Doctors and Notaries.

metasynthie wrote:

Day 8: +1 ToL if you invite Silas in without calling him Silas

According to the wiki, both "invite him in" options give ToL+1.

Also, it looks like the Consonant Violin is really not necessary at all. You can use either the Violin or Greyfields First Sporing.
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 11/9/2015

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Kivrin Neverwinter
Kivrin Neverwinter
Posts: 86

11/9/2015
I don't suppose you have any advice for those of us looking to maximize Masters connection? Not...that I would be after something like that.

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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 775

11/9/2015
This is the guide to get maximum ToL/Pails of Lacre from Mr Sacks WITHOUT Fate. The Fate-guide is in the spoiler-box below.

Day 2: The day with the most options: for ToL +1 you can give him Greyfields First Sporing, or play on your Violin (the latter needs Connected: The Masters 2). If you have neither, "Take my good name" is another option (requires Renown: Bohemians, Society & Great Game 10, Connected: Masters 1, Notability 1). Or you can give him a Touching Love Story (caps at ToL 5)
Day 4: Today you "only" have to decide whether you'll want to spend Fate!
Day 5: Align yourself with the Celestial school of poetry at the Singing Mandrake and "Give Him Your Dream of Skies Untainted" for ToL +1. Careful, overcapped players: your Persuasive will drop!
Day 8: Invite the man in, whether you know him already or not, and receive ToL +1.
Day 9: "Accept his Heart and Lights" will get you a Pail of Lacre!
Day 11: Now's the time to be a Doctor or Notary as only they will receive a further ToL +1.
Day 12: "Take Advantage of the Situation" will get you ToL +1 and a Pail of Lacre! You'll lose 1 CP of Connected: Masters though. Note that this is a rather heartless choice that some role-playing characters might feel uncomfortable with (the Rubbery Fate-locked option grants the same rewards and is much nicer wink)

----------------------------------
Per special request, here are the options that increase Connected: The Masters! (it's usually just 1CP)
Day 1: Would you care for a little of the '68? or Would you care for something... spicier than wine?
Day 2: Would you care for a little of the '68? or Take this eery air! (both give ToL as well)
Day 3: Take this rather larger diamond!
Day 5: Take this dream of mirrors! (requires Recurring Dreams: Is Someone There? 5, and then docks 10 CP off it!)
Day 6: Take this exalted hymn to patriotism! (requires you to have written A Patriotic Adventure) or Take these tales of joy and woe! (requires 10 Touching Love Stories)
Day 7: London is the crucible of desires (GAIN 1 CP Masters, 1x FiHP + 3 CP Hedonist (up to 10!), LOSE 1x Docks & Revs Favour) or Take this work of mine... (only for Bazaarines; GAIN 1-2 CP Masters, 1x FiHP + 10 Echoes cash, LOSE 1x Docks Fav. & 3 Revs Favours!) or It is peaceful here (just 1CP Masters)
Day 11: Accept the invitation (not for all Professions)
Day 12: Assist the wreck of Sacks (3CP Masters, 1x FiHP)

[spoiler]There are seven factions you can investigate Lacre with: Benthic scientists, Revolutionaries & Urchins cost 8 Fate each; while the Widow, the Duchess, Zailors & Rubbery Men come at 12 Fate each. You can choose only one faction each year!
Story-wise, all these options are worth playing. For those interested in maxing ToL however, there are differences: the 12 Fate-stories (except the Rubbery one!) get you a net gain of ToL +2 --- or even +7 if you choose not to finish the story (you can then finish it during next year's Sacksmas without paying further Fate). The 8 Fate-stories are less rewarding here, especially as they always come on days on which you can get ToL without Fate. I will not discuss them further.

These are the final reward items of each story:

Rubbery Men: A Perpetually Festive Rubbery Man (Companion, Persuasive +9, Bizarre +3)
Duchess: Cantigaster Venom (Weapon, Dangerous +12)
Widow: Elemental Secret
Zailors: Dreadful Surmise + 3 Favours: The Docks
Benthic: Dreadful Surmise
Revolutionaries: Ray-Drenched Cinder + 3 Favours: Revolutionaries (probably, not confirmed)
Urchins: Starstone Demark + 3 Favours: Urchins

Day 6: today's option to investigate with the Duchess grants ToL +7 (remember you'll need ToL 5 to finish the story at Penstock's)
Day 7: today's option to investigate Sacks with the Widow grants ToL +7 (remember you'll need ToL 5 to finish the story at Penstock's)
Day 9: today's option to investigate Sacks with Zailors grants ToL +7 (remember you'll need ToL 5 to finish the story at Penstock's) -- Today, there's also an option for ToL +2 if you have a Peculiar Personal Enhancement.
Day 12: today's option to investigate Sacks with a Rubbery Man grants ToL +1 and a Pail of Lacre[/spoiler]
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 1/8/2019

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Danko
Danko
Posts: 142

11/9/2015
Rupho, this is seriously amazing, it has almost everything I ever wanted to know about Sacksmas. Thanks!

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Lisbella Peridot
Lisbella Peridot
Posts: 138

11/9/2015
Danko wrote:
Rupho, this is seriously amazing, it has almost everything I ever wanted to know about Sacksmas. Thanks!


Seconding that! You want a Christmas Card, Mr Schartenhauer?

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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3412

11/9/2015
I believe the Consonant Violin option gives one CP on Connected: Masters.

@metasynthie: Note that the 8-fate stories do give 312.5 echo items as well. Out of all the faction choices, only the Dutchess gives an item that is completely fate-locked, but most of the others can only be obtained seasonally or with great difficulty. The Revolutionaries reward is the only one I'd really consider not worth it from a collecting standpoint. Also, note that not finishing the story does allow you to finish it the next year at no additional fate cost!
edited by Optimatum on 11/9/2015

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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 775

11/9/2015
Danko wrote:
Rupho, this is seriously amazing, it has almost everything I ever wanted to know about Sacksmas. Thanks!

Lisbella Peridot wrote:
Seconding that! You want a Christmas Card, Mr Schartenhauer?

Thank you! I'm glad people find it useful! smile
Thanks also to everyone who contributed information, especially NiteBrite, Metasynthie & Optimatum!

Optimatum wrote:
Also, note that not finishing the story does allow you to finish it the next year at no additional fate cost!

Yes, that's an important detail: if (for whatever reason) you do not finish your Fate-locked Lacre quest, your progress will be saved and you can take off where you left next Christmas without paying further Fate!

Now, if we could just confirm the information about Day 3's Fate-locked option....
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 11/9/2015

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xKiv
xKiv
Posts: 801

11/9/2015
Grenem wrote:
... or to reach melancholy 15 ...


Ech ... the daughter in shadows and missing woman options in nadir are, imao, more convenient (available without additional costs, once unlocked) for that.

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

11/9/2015
xKiv wrote:
Grenem wrote:
... or to reach melancholy 15 ...


Ech ... the daughter in shadows and missing woman options in nadir are, imao, more convenient (available without additional costs, once unlocked) for that.

yeah, it averages a cost of 44.12 echoes for 5 boosts to melancholy, as well as a 2 irrigo replacement cost. (20% loss-rate, 1 ToL for success, 2 on loss, average of 6 ToL per tears.) I'm not aware of the missing woman option in the nadir- educate me, please, since google cannot find it either. If you mean woods in winter, that doesn't give melancholy for me.
edited by Grenem on 11/9/2015

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
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Posts: 4514

11/9/2015
The option I know of that can increase Melancholy past 10 is the second option on Old Bones.

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metasynthie
metasynthie
Posts: 645

11/9/2015
Some notes based on other notes...


Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Day 1: You could give him a Pail of Lacre and get +1 ToL. But that would be boring.

Especially if you're at a point where you could have looked at it through a Monocle for +3 ToL!

Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Day 2: The day with the most options: for ToL +1 you can give him Greyfields First Sporing, or play on your Violin (the latter needs Connected: The Masters 2). If you have neither, you can give him another Pail of Lacre... or a Touching Love Story (caps at ToL 5)! I'm not sure whether "Take my good name" is capped!?

Take my good name is apparently not capped and gives 1 Extraordinary Implication if you have Connections (which don't get removed): Bohemians 20, Great Game 20, Society 20, Masters 1, Notability 1. Most players with Notability 1 will probably be able to get a Consonant Violin -- but in case someone doesn't have the Violin or Greyfields First Sporing, the requirements for this are relatively easy. The First Sporing and Violin may be more preferable since they give 1 point of Masters connection, and "Take my good name" doesn't.



Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Day 9: "Accept his Heart and Lights" will get you ToL +1 and a Pail of Lacre!

As far as I can tell this one does NOT give you ToL!


Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Day 3: Take this rather larger diamond! (the free version gives Connected: Masters, but no ToL. The Fate-locked version probably gives both. Probably.)

Nope, no ToL for either choice; Stones is a creep. You do get Connected: Masters though.



Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
The 8 Fate-stories are less rewarding here, especially as they always come on days on which you can get ToL without Fate. I will not discuss them further.

Urchins can get you +1 ToL over not paying any Fate at all. And might be useful if you need their connections or Storm-Threnodies for buying pails... but yeah, not as worth it.
edited by metasynthie on 11/9/2015

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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 775

11/9/2015
Updated!

metasynthie wrote:
Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Day 9: "Accept his Heart and Lights" will get you ToL +1 and a Pail of Lacre!

As far as I can tell this one does NOT give you ToL!

As far as I can tell, you're right. Don't know why I wrote this. hmm

metasynthie wrote:
Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Day 3: Take this rather larger diamond! (the free version gives Connected: Masters, but no ToL. The Fate-locked version probably gives both. Probably.)

Nope, no ToL for either choice; Stones is a creep. You do get Connected: Masters though.

Does the Fate-locked option give you more CP: Masters at least? There has to be a difference!

Anyway, I've taken the Magnificent Diamond out of the listed useful things in the OP as it does not give any ToL. Also, I further polished the OP again as some things were explained too much in a roundabout way. I hope to convey the importance of thinking ahead and doing things in the correct order. In recent years I often just clicked on Sacks cards without thinking about my ToL - so easy to waste precious points that way!
Also, the fact that Sacks cards are not repeatable - that you can play each only once - might not be obvious to newer players, so I've added that fact as well.
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 11/10/2015

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

11/10/2015
Sara Hysaro wrote:
The option I know of that can increase Melancholy past 10 is the second option on Old Bones.

http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Warm_your_Tears_of_the_Bazaar
According to the wiki, this can. It's pricey, but if you care about melancholy 15 you'll need to pay through the nose in some fasion.

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

11/10/2015
Oh, definitely. I meant the option I knew of within the Cave of the Nadir.

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Grenem
Grenem
Posts: 2067

11/10/2015
Sara Hysaro wrote:
Oh, definitely. I meant the option I knew of within the Cave of the Nadir.

Is there a extant, cheaper non-fate method you know of?

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

11/10/2015
There's this once Penstock's Wicket opens up, though I don't think I'd want to be spending ToL in that way (especially since it's not guaranteed). I'd just wait until more connections get switched over to Renown and see which one of those will boost Melancholy at its highest tier.

Edit: Wait, there's also this. Depending on where the quirk caps that might be okay, though I forget where it was when I tried it last time.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 11/10/2015

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Unlogic
Unlogic
Posts: 34

11/10/2015
Rupho Schartenhauer wrote:
Does the Fate-locked option give you more CP: Masters at least? There has to be a difference!


As far as I can tell from the wiki, the Fate option is locked when in possession of a diamond, which implies that it is merely a fate cost for a same or similar outcome, sans item cost.

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